Antifa rocks!

[Rashiminos]

Law enforcement and the courts should be reserved for redressing substantive harms. Deadname appellations are rude, but short of defamation, don't qualify. You can't legislate your way to broad acceptance, nor can you nag your way there either.

..apathy

The larger your social scope is, the more it will crash into others. This is one part of why appeals to Middle Eastern theocracies are quite fallacious.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

Moderator Action: Ok, we've suffered a bit of a derailing here. My suggestion is if you wish to discuss transgender issues and their impact on society/people that you do so in a thread specifically opened for that purpose. So what I'm saying is open a thread for it before I have to close this one because it's been derailed to the point it's beyond saving. This thread is supposed to be about Antifa. Please get back to topic.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

The transcommunity is pretty much in agreement that correct pronoun and name usage is a substantial issue, enough that it literally has an impact on suicide rates.

What it really sounds like to me is that you are simply unaware of the impacts it can have and rather than educate yourself you would simply prefer to ignore the issue.

That's me trying to be charitable because I don't really see how it's functionally any different from being anti trans if the end result is that transpeople suffer.

Edit: Apologies didn’t see the post above.

 

[Rashiminos]

If you want me to respond to that, open a new thread.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

So yeah Andy Ngo and Quillette doxxed (and attempted to dox other) people, the same guy who claims to dislike doxing a

 

[Imaus]

This is interesting.

Merkel honors Hitler assassins, laments rise of far right
The chancellor said Germans have a "duty" to stand up to right-wing extremists just as the resistance faced down Adolf Hitler. July 20 is the 75th anniversary of the failed assassination attempt on the Nazi dictator.

Seen here.

I know little of Antifa in Germany - it became 'popular' in the UK and maybe Italy. Some might see it as tacit approval, but the cynic in me is just calling it politics. I doubt Merkel would care much for, and change her tune, if Antifa bashed both police and Fascists or AFD supporters.

 

[Rashiminos]

The connection to being punched out in Portland is a bit dubious, but she was up for being officially doxxed when she destroyed some property at a previous time.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

And I think it is socially necessary to shame people who are an intrinsic threat to minorities, which could conceivably include doxing.

 

[Rashiminos]

And I think it is socially necessary to shame people who are an intrinsic threat to minorities, which could conceivably include doxing.

Depending on the nature of the threat, I'd not necessarily disagree.

 

[Narz]

As he often does Sam Harris sums things up nicely.

 

[Imaus]

Can't really add much to what Sam is saying.

Like I asked on Spacebattles: Then what do the non-far right Right-wingers and Centrists suppose to do? All I'm hearing, from Harris, who already is 'both sides are wrong' and has gone from being strongly Anti-Trump to weakly letting him slide, along with figures like Milo, is that 'Wow, look at these Antifa being violent! How horrendous, Trump is def going to win!'.

Side note: Is he really thinking there aren't free Neo-Nazis or White Supremacists walking around and Antifa is fighting...innocent kids? Yea, there are a lot of them in Jail. But no one stays in jail forever. Operation White Christmas uncovered a whole White Supremacist criminal network across four biker gangs. The PNW is crawling with the Far-Right, Alt-Right, White Supremacists, and their ilk; and Sam Harris is acting like Portland is 'just' another college town full of peaceful people beset by two gangs, when the history is far deeper. There's a reason Rose City Antifa is the oldest one in the country.

At best Sam Harris sounds like a coddled, detached VSP, from who I hear a lot of complaining and not a lot of suggestions or answers.

 

[Narz]

Like I asked on Spacebattles: Then what do the non-far right Right-wingers and Centrists suppose to do? All I'm hearing, from Harris, who already is 'both sides are wrong' and has gone from being strongly Anti-Trump to weakly letting him slide, along with figures like Milo, is that 'Wow, look at these Antifa being violent! How horrendous, Trump is def going to win!'.

Side note: Is he really thinking there aren't free Neo-Nazis or White Supremacists walking around and Antifa is fighting...innocent kids? Yea, there are a lot of them in Jail. But no one stays in jail forever. Operation White Christmas uncovered a whole White Supremacist criminal network across four biker gangs. The PNW is crawling with the Far-Right, Alt-Right, White Supremacists, and their ilk; and Sam Harris is acting like Portland is 'just' another college town full of peaceful people beset by two gangs, when the history is far deeper. There's a reason Rose City Antifa is the oldest one in the country.

At best Sam Harris sounds like a coddled, detached VSP,

Did you actually listen?

Harris is very strongly anti-Trump. In fact by pointing out problems with the left he is more strongly anti-Trump than those who ignore those problems. When your boxing coach criticizes you it's so YOU CAN BEAT THE OTHER GUY not because he's on the other guy's side. Beating on reporters and old men in MAGA hats is not helping us. He's not denying there's a sickeningly evil portion of Trump's base, but alot of them are just idiots, old ladies who believe in the good old days & the flag & nonsense like that. Why give them stuff like this to read about?

Are you saying the beating of Andy Ngo was justified?

Also what's a VSP?

from who I hear a lot of complaining and not a lot of suggestions or answers.

What type of answers are you looking for?

 

[Farm Boy]

Harris does make a flawed analysis in one way. He conflates acceptance of this level of behavior with "mainstream liberals." They aren't liberals.

 

[zxcvbob]

Also what's a VSP?

I'm usually good at acronyms and I don't know this one. I'll guess "very stupid person". (am I close? )

 

[Broken_Erika]

Harris does make a flawed analysis in one way. He conflates acceptance of this level of behavior with "mainstream liberals." They aren't liberals.

Sure they are, Liberals are anyone to the left of Attila the Hun.

 

[Farm Boy]

Sure they are, Liberals are anyone to the left of Attila the Hun.

Ah yes, the Hun!

Spoiler :

 

[Berzerker]

Oh. Well, that's it then. Since he's a right wing nut job and you are Berzerker, he claims he didn't do it so of course as far as you are concerned he didn't.

You aren't biased in your acceptance of denials or anything.

I've never said, or even thought, that the world would be a much better place if you and everyone like you were launched into the sun...or even eliminated in a less dramatic way.

Maybe you weren't paying attention, Cloud posted what Ngo did and he admitted to it. You repeatedly talk about mass murdering people but now you never thought about it? Your BS is Trump-like.

How is identifying her and who she is not a form of doxxing?

Would it be doxxing if Antifa members posted online that Andy Ngo was at the protest? Of course not, doxxing is about identifying where people live and work to promote fear.

In a tweet, Quillette contributor Andy Ngo attempted to identify us, and others, as covert “antifa ideologues” posing as experts for willing journalists, all of whom, apparently, have joined together in a plot to create a media-antifa industrial complex. Ngo is known for saying that antifascists activists are a violent menace who are being aided by the right, and on his podcast and social accounts is dead set on identifying the antifa-bias in the media.

He wrote a tweet naming a few academic defenders of Antifa, so what? He's debating them, what is he supposed to call them? Are they doxxing Andy when they name him? These people published their arguments and no one can call them Antifa supporters? Are you doxxing Tucker Carlson when you identify him as a Trump defender? The rest of your article is just more guilt by association, Ngo didn't publish their phone numbers and addresses etc.

 

[Imaus]

Did you actually listen?

Harris is very strongly anti-Trump. In fact by pointing out problems with the left he is more strongly anti-Trump than those who ignore those problems. When your boxing coach criticizes you it's so YOU CAN BEAT THE OTHER GUY not because he's on the other guy's side. Beating on reporters and old men in MAGA hats is not helping us. He's not denying there's a sickeningly evil portion of Trump's base, but alot of them are just idiots, old ladies who believe in the good old days & the flag & nonsense like that. Why give them stuff like this to read about?

Are you saying the beating of Andy Ngo was justified?

Also what's a VSP?


What type of answers are you looking for?

I'm usually good at acronyms and I don't know this one. I'll guess "very stupid person". (am I close? )

VSPs are 'Very Serious People'. Paul Krugman, who I believe originated the concept, recently defined it as follows: “…someone distinguished by his faith in received orthodoxy no matter the evidence.” They are the so called "common sense" people, so called "Centrists", so called "moderates", quick to scream for small town Americana, peace above change, the known against the unknown.

I'm saying I don't give a damn if Andy got beat, and I've said before I think he was intentionally cruising for this, then spewed crocodile tears just for PR for his side.

The answers I'm looking for are what the hell is this society, outside of antifa, wants to do about the Neonazis, the White Supremacists, the Alt-Right, the Far right. Because so far all I'm getting is 'oh the cops will take care of it all', meanwhile the cops are infiltrated by that Far Right sector, and encroaches on our government. Brietbart held the ear of the President for almost a damn year!

And yea, right. Sam Harris is on 'my side'? He's a islamophobe who would had taken Carson over Chomsky and believes in the IQ bell curve. He bashes Palestine while loving Israel. He gave Trump the benefit of the doubt over Charlottesville. He's gone against BLM in an aside snide.

No, Sam Harris' side is the lite VSP New Atheist Western Chauvinist's side, and is melting on Trump because the left is getting to 'radical'. Good for him. But he ain't my people.

 

[Rashiminos]

The suggestion is to let Nazis grow out of being, well, Nazis. Surely there is a world outside of a rabid Jew hatery, and possibly there might be some ground where they could have the room and space to be slightly less Nazi. Baby steps.

Treat them closer to recovering cultists.

 

[bernie14]

As he often does Sam Harris sums things up nicely.

to the "antifa rocks" crowd, Harris just seems like a "race realist, fash adjacent"....did i get the newspeak right?

EDIT.. i forgot islamophobe..