Artsakh-Azerbaijani War

[red_elk]

If Greece wasn't a protectorate, now would have been the ideal time to declare 12 miles of control at the sea, and arrange EEZ border with Cyprus.

Also, start Kurdish uprising and organize advance against Turkey proxies simultaneously in Syria and Libya

 

[Kyriakos]

Also, start Kurdish uprising and organize advance against Turkey proxies simultaneously in Syria and Libya

Outside of joking, though, it is rather clear Turkey has ridiculously overextended.
I also don't think Russia would really defend them in case of a serious war (eg with any large western nuclear power).

 

[Tigranes]

Azerbaijan claims that Su-25 (ground attack plane, btw, not fighter) was shot down by their Mig-29, not Turkish F-16.
In any case, direct attacks against Armenia are very concerning. Russia should stop trying to sit on two chairs and show clearer support of Armenia, at least diplomatic, and send modern air defense and electronic warfare equipment.

Here is the thing about Russia. They are mightily annoyed with our prime minister Pashinyan (as a former journalist I used to work just next to him when we were attending press conferences 25 years ago). When recently Russia was reopening air travel with closest allies (stopped because of Covid) -- the list included Belorussia, Kazakhstan and Kirghizia ... but not Armenia, even though I personally took it for granted that we will be in that list. Not so subtle signal of a displeasure from Big Brother. Mind you Pashinyan did nothing very drastic, anti Russian or pro NATO. No, it's just very annoying to have a former journalist ruling the country instead of fellow KGB ex-president Sargsyan. Azerbaijan read between lines and became more bold. Perfect timing. Putin is irritated with Pashinyan, Turkey is on the roll bullying all around the neighborhood, world is busy with Covid and US elections. When else there will be such an opportunity?

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Is anyone in this conflict even close to being "the good guys", or should I decide who I should support based on the quality of their national food?

Is anyone ever the "good guy"? At least it seems pretty hella obvious to me that the Armenians are, and haven't really been the "bad guys" in any relevant way, most of the time they found themselves being massacred, expelled or discriminated against. Also seems pretty obvious to me who the aggressor is in this situation.

Armenia is a known warmonger and genocider, just remember your failure to do anything against them despite being supported by 100 massive allied ships.
It's all good, your dead are now buried in a friendly warmonger country.

This post is a good example for why post-irony was a mistake

Have either the U.S. or European powers a consistent policy on Central Asia?

"As long as it helps us, let's pretend they're our friends. When they're in trouble, desert them and sell weapons to their tormentors." It was exactly the same with Kurds after ISIS was beaten.

 

[Kyriakos]

This post is a good example for why post-irony was a mistake

Meta-irony gallows humor accounts for roughly 92% of my posts!

 

[red_elk]

Here is the thing about Russia. They are mightily annoyed with our prime minister Pashinyan (as a former journalist I used to work just next to him when we were attending press conferences 25 years ago). When recently Russia was reopening air travel with closest allies (stopped because of Covid) -- the list included Belorussia, Kazakhstan and Kirghizia ... but not Armenia, even though I personally took it for granted that we will be in that list. Not so subtle signal of a displeasure from Big Brother. Mind you Pashinyan did nothing very drastic, anti Russian or pro NATO. No, it's just very annoying to have a former journalist ruling the country instead of fellow KGB ex-president Sargsyan. Azerbaijan read between lines and became more bold. Perfect timing. Putin is irritated with Pashinyan, Turkey is on the roll bullying all around the neighborhood, world is busy with Covid and US elections. When else there will be such an opportunity?

My impression was that although Russia initially had concerns about government change, it was reassured by Pashinyan that Armenia won't change the course to become less pro-Russia or more pro-NATO one. At least Russian officials rhetoric made me think our government is ok with Pashinyan. But I may be missing details, such as Armenia participation in NATO military drills.

 

[Yeekim]

Russia should stop trying to sit on two chairs and show clearer support of Armenia, at least diplomatic, and send modern air defense and electronic warfare equipment.

We're in full agreement for once.

 

[r16]

my myopia was diagnosed in 2nd grade , making that 40+ years that ı have worn glasses , ı expect it is about 6 or degrees these days 0,5 being the likely maximum that you can do without glasses . Which makes me not a former fighter pilot . Thanks for the background on Karabağ but of course the intention was remarking on the Russian drive to create defensible borders for the occupied Azeri lands . Writing this at home , on the tablet , ı can't copy paste my stuff on recent things , and well , we also had a map with different colours , on how the Azeris are only in the beginning . And everybody ignore Russian position . There is not wrong with Pashinyan or his overtures to NATO , this is Putin starting a fight that will ensure continued hold on New Turkey . Silly things ı say , but the world is silly .

armenians supposedly got their first Flankers , there are Russian Fulcrums . Yeah , am pretty sure the aviation arm of the Army of Petrol is so glorious that they wouldn't bother . So , if there is any New Turkey F-16 around you can shoot it down . Also to keep the things under control

do not feel that's frivilous but ı won't stop the Azeris either . They will stop when Putin arranges them to stop .

 

[Kyriakos]

Everything is possible, I mean Brezhnev is still alive and currently serves as Russian foreign minister, so why not.
Just remember to use donme tinfoil, the other types are just crypto-greek.

 

[r16]

you will be interested to know it was spinning downwards even before ı posted . The New Turkey F-16 flying 60 kilometers into Armenian airspace at 8200 metres first turned out to be that Gence airbase , the claimed location where it took off was 60 kilometers to the action zone . Then it became an Azeri MiG-29 , which would make this the first victory ever for the Fulcrum , except Azeris refuse that they did anything of the sort . And of course 60 kilometers engagement is far too much for Western sensibilities so it becomes 10 to 12 kilometers . Su-25 claimed to be inside occupied Azeri territory , trying to intercept drones , which it would be a perfect platform in some lesser threat zone . And yes , Armenians refusing to show wreckage . Like possibly on the principle of pictures or it didn't happen is far too restrictive . At least two Syrians confirmed dead as well , so the PR game for the Turkish heart and mind goes on unabated .

 

[Kyriakos]

Afaik turkish aircraft pilots (those not purged after the latest coup) are the worst in Nato (always end up last in any contest - which is a feat by itself, considering a few Nato countries barely have an airforce). But also, from what I heard, Turkey uses pilots from Pakistan as well, cause after the purges there just aren't enough left.

 

[r16]

my greetings to Greek Airforce lntelligence . Considering no Armenian Su-25 was shot down , there is no need to imagine a MiG-29 qualified Turkish speaker that can drive SARH missiles out to 60 kilometers . Have they found out the jetpack dude in LAX last August ? 'Cause ı will rant about that , too ...

 

[Kyriakos]

my greetings to Greek Airforce lntelligence . Considering no Armenian Su-25 was shot down , there is no need to imagine a MiG-29 qualified Turkish speaker that can drive SARH missiles out to 60 kilometers . Have they found out the jetpack dude in LAX last August ? 'Cause ı will rant about that , too ...

Paging agent Omar Mitoglu... Bigmouth is at it again. Uncle Erdogenecon won't be happy

 

[r16]

why , they are winning and they will have ages to tell how they helped Azeris win .

 

[Ajidica]

Is anyone ever the "good guy"? At least it seems pretty hella obvious to me that the Armenians are, and haven't really been the "bad guys" in any relevant way, most of the time they found themselves being massacred, expelled or discriminated against. Also seems pretty obvious to me who the aggressor is in this situation.

That's why I was asking, because literally all I knew about the conflict was it was an ethnic fight over some barren mountains that nobody has figured out how to deal with in 30 years.

 

[Tigranes]

my myopia was diagnosed in 2nd grade , making that 40+ years that ı have worn glasses , ı expect it is about 6 or degrees these days 0,5 being the likely maximum that you can do without glasses . Which makes me not a former fighter pilot .

Ok, bad memory then. I remember your long rants about warplanes few years ago, and you spoke about that stuff like a pro, so for some reason I assumed that you were serving in airforce of "Old" Turkey.

 

[Ajidica]

Ok, bad memory then. I remember your long rants about warplanes few years ago, and you spoke about that stuff like a pro, so for some reason I assumed that you were serving in airforce of "Old" Turkey.

To this day, nobody has actually proven r16 isn't actually a Turkish military AI experiment that got loose.

 

[r16]

one of my benefactors was one , ı think he had made it to F-104s when he was like nominated . ı would say ı am a good listener . And to put it mildly , the then commander of the 14th Goon Battalion whom the locals remember from not so visible bodyguarding of the Stuntwoman was like experienced in the area under discussion . So , ı think ı will survive , my thanks to all concerned . The rant was written yesterday at home, might sound repetitive .

Spoiler :

there is only (Mountainous) Karabağ , an enclave with some higher numbers of ethnicity in a country of different ethnicity . Of course , if this was 2014-5 when people would like fight with me , this would draw the retort about the Northern Cyprus . Places like Kremlin or White House will not like you asking why ı do not "recognize" it either . Small print , causes jaws drop really down .

the issue (as today) stems from Gorbachov . No , am not ignoring the bad history , allegations , whatever that exist for real or unreal . But there could have been let them live and live stuff . Gorbachov took legal control from one Republic of USSR and gave it to an other , creating fresh problems . Then , a year later reversed and created the impression he was amenable to pressure . Because he thought he was smart . He was smart enough to become the Secretary General , but some "smartness" unfortunately descends on leaders . This involving his issues with the Marshalls of the Soviet Union . The cadres had accepted the need for reform , they knew they were behind , they feared a new war with the West , or equally ugly local Civil Wars , they urged caution . Gorbachov said he would divide and rule . To make it known he stalled the shooting down of Mathias Rust so that the Soviet Military could be humiliated . You know , Flankers trailing the Cessna all the way the Moscow , ready to fire , actually asking for Hinds to be scrambled and so on , if Russian HQs on the way didn't want the wreckage splattered all over the European Russian landmass .

anyhow . At the final dissolution Georgia was ruled by Schervarnadze , "hater of Turks" , trusted adviser to Gorbachov , laughing at Red Army theories of making deals with Turkey and stuff , considering the fall of Soviets would open us to the American lust for creating a Nation State for Kurds . They ignored the stuff , the already existing tensions between the Armenians and Azeris would block the connection to the Turkics , Central Asia , business opportunities for a shunned-by-the-West Turkey thus influencing Germany , support for Russia to let it concentrate on defending the Siberia from the Chinese , all sorts of silly stuff . When the Acaristan or whatever thing exploded , Schervernadze of course demanded help , to corral the Russian bear , he was pro-Democracy , pro-business , what else people needed ? People needed the Red Army , to balance the American lust for blood . As he had been told by 1987 . Which is mostly fiction , the balance provided by the Red Army , but you need something to let people visualize things .

of course , almost racists had already flocked to Bakü , like immediately getting into brothel business . It has been a terrible period , when all those guys could have women who would otherwise starve , doctors or engineers forced to do stuff with people who would be thrown out of a restaurant or two even in Trabzon , they all started to believe they were fit to rule the world . That A-K-P gets 80 or 90% of votes in the Black Sea coast , despite pathetic prices on tea or hazelnuts ? Yeah , they all know the conspiracy must go on , because New Turkey is a product of people who lived through the 1990s , they know they are matchless as men . Will not tell why Russian women are longer flocking to them , but hey , that's life ... Yet , the almost racists were tagged as the enemy by the not exactly stellar American experts on anything , so when the Armenians struck , ethnically cleansing whatever Azeris that lived in Karabağ , the almost racists first betrayed anyone they could in the area and they were then betrayed by Ankara . Because the connection with the Turkics would be left to the Congregation with all those CIA controlled schools raising the future leaders in the area .

but , but and once again but the Armenians would surely have none of it , becoming a land bridge between West and East of people talking various dialects of Turkish ? Yeah , the Armenian diasporas in the US and Frace saw to that , buying public opinion with pitiful little as Ankara can do nothing but press economic hardship and whatnot as Azeri lands remain under Armenian occupation . And you in the West might not exactly believe it , but Turks are like better bets for Armenians . And it is known . As proven by the death of most famous or whatever Armenian with a Turkish ID . Hrant Dink , journalist and a reasonable person , encouraged by his Turkish Leftist friends to challenge the almost racist viewpoint so that the EU would hasten the talks and this country would join the EU and what not . His death is the point New Turkey diverges from a stab in the back into total control of the country . Fittingly , the Black Sea coast location where the killer hails from tried to cover the thing , the official State channel warned the locals about foreign intelligence services whose agents would wear Turkish uniforms , would look exactly look like Turks , would speak excellent Turkish , might have been even born in the same province . Which turned out to be a Congregation operation , too , that murder . Shaming the Turkish State , creating a basis for reforms that would destroy the Turkish State , even the outpouring of support at Dink's funeral creating a basis for people to accept their past history , which obviously involves ancestors who were not Muslims or Turks in 1071 . Dried up alltogether , because New Turkey discovered the Diaspora wanted so much compensation that there would be nothing left for them by 2015 . Syria or ISIL would create opportunities to create a federation with seperatists or a Sunni alliance and stuff . Didn't happen either , so no more sympathy . Meant for honest discussion of the past to prove the Turks do not exist , because DNA and Kemalists should roll over and die , being racists and liars , you know , to isolate the final remnants as closet Jews fit for gas chambers . Of course there is one good Armenian in New Turkey , Ara Güler , photographer since 1950s and now deceased , because he has portraits of the PM and talked against Opposition who questioned of his choice to be on the side of A-K-P and stuff ... New Turkey runs exhibitions abroad , consisting only of Güler pictures ...

so , is New Turkey supporting Azerbeycan ? Uhm , why not ? An Azeri win can be stolen allright , many who have observed the New Turkey population wouldn't doubt that could be sold to public . You know , exactly like Trump supporters , anything goes . Who would have known an Azeri general sold the war plans to save Karabağ to Russians and that's why Armenians laid so many mines causing so much loss ? And New Turkey's so called national intelligence found out the traitor and arrested him or something ! You know , as if it wasn't Russian generals who ran the ethnic cleansing stuff in the 1990s to hold every hilltop and Armenians have not being planting mines in the last 30 years . But Azerbeycan is Shia ? Also why not ? Proves sunnier Sunni brothers are not heart-eaters and they should be embraced . The feelings expressed in the thread are like false , they are not going to be put in any position to be hurt , if they join the fight , it will be only in the exploitation zone where there will be no Armenians to stop them from plunder and rape . Because , you know nobody makes a distinction between Turkey and New Turkey whenever New Turkey achieves yet another masterpiece in shaming the word Turkish .

plus an Azeri win should encourage strategic thinking . Like there are people who are talking about Tebriz . There are like 20 or 25 million Azeris in Iran . ı think Hamaney is one . That's the actual leader of the country , you know . Bakü victorious will encourage an uprising , breaking Iran , encouraging Iranian Kurds to rebel , creating 'stan , which will then come and kill us all .

so , do ı oppose or not ? Why , there is no need ... Even the Russians are fools to imagine that we would be hurt by an Azeri victory or defeat . Feeling Nationalism would unite rank and file perhaps , increasing support for New Turkey , turning feet into clay even ? Good hunting , my pals and friends , you will like need a lot of luck ...

see , there is nothing confusing here . A lot of Russians were proud of the Soviet Union . The breakdown did not have to be that painful . Which happened because oligarks desired to steal everything . Though the balance of power was necessary , despite the concept having been so much rubbished in CFC . Russia had the gas which it could sell to Europe , something to provide hard currency during the transition . Ever heard of Turkey , the bridge that connects Europe and Asia ? And guess which country else holds the rest of the Asia-Europe connections ? Russians would have no competititon because the hurt we might feel economically was nothing compared to an American invasion ... And yet what did Russians do ? Except ethnic cleansing by Armenians ... and Serbians , aided and abetted by Moscow in both cases ? And yes , Croats might have started it but there was no need for Bosnia to become a bloodbath and so on . But Putin "plays" a magnificient game with a Goverment that thinks only as an Arab Goverment , in the way it would do , you know oil and pipelines and buying friendship of other countries with money and the whole range of stuff . Putin ignores that his great strategic gains was created only because there was vacuum , with New Turkey always lacking the vigour for the final hit to win . Only because it would hurt New Turkey , too . Putin offers friendship to West . Always he does . Always he is rebuffed . So , Putin creates a scenario that will open a new front for Iran . Does he expect ransom ? Putin thinks he will keep his deterrence with no operations against Armenia proper . Ah yeah , Erivan is an NATO wannabe , so Putin is punishing them ? And Armenia is totally owned by Russia . They can't go anywhere else . The only thing the diaspora can ever provide to the Armenia is Kim Kardashian , and that's a maybe ... See , it will be so glorious .

except even his "friends" do not think that way . New Turkey media has people that call for an accidental missile hit on Erivan , Scud or whatever . To rub Putin's face and Putin's deterrence in the mud . For making a mockery of things in Syria and Libya . Oh , nobody is actually afraid of MiGs and whatnot . Yeah , if a Su-25 was indeed shot down over Armenia proper , that's a slap on Putin's face . Putin's glorious escapade of getting Armenians to fire on the pipelines will be so swell . Yes , ı have always been of the opinion of discarding this Red Army shield thing . Long before UFOs and drones made a mockery of American superiority in any field . Long before there was Trump .

and of course one must also say how much ı hate the very existance of pipelines . They have only caused trouble . Like Taliban which was created to prevent a pipeline form Turkmenistan to the Indian Ocean for selling to Japan and Asia . No , you are wrong . The Argentinian company would fail and when Unocal got it , Washington could safely sleep on it and keep arming Taliban at will . Etc. etc.

ignore the stupidity of pictures , they are from a past when ı was like banned elsewhere for daring to question Merkel , ı think , when Obama the Spineless Jerk was on the job

 

[Kyriakos]

To this day, nobody has actually proven r16 isn't actually a Turkish military AI experiment that got loose.

This is actually a pretty good bet. But all AI experiments rely on the tester not being willing to ask in a loop. So maybe keep asking SCP r16 about some of their favorite jives, like Hillary Rodham

 

[r16]

this to be added here before you people like get serious or something . ı have had no scare of Mrs Rodham , but the one below caused this forum go Xenforo or something . Becoming real is dangerous , and yes , because am at the webcafe and running on a schedule because coronavirus issues make me sit a set time and it still costs money , full explanation will require me logging later with the tablet