Ask A Catholic II

[civ_king]

Was the hymen of the Theotokos broken when she gave birth to Our Lord, or was it somehow miraculously sustained? The debates I've read on Orthodox forums about this topic are quite bizarre, and I was wondering if there was an "official" Catholic position on the matter.

What the heck?

Well, I don't tend to use the phrase "I'm right and you're not", but matters of religious doctrine are slightly different to arguing against scientific theory.

If someone says "Jesus was a mortal prophet" is this compatible with someone saying "Jesus was purely divine" and the Son of God? Is either compatible with "Jesus is both fully human and fully divine"

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Was the hymen of the Theotokos broken when she gave birth to Our Lord, or was it somehow miraculously sustained? The debates I've read on Orthodox forums about this topic are quite bizarre, and I was wondering if there was an "official" Catholic position on the matter.

I am, of course, not Catholic, but why should virginity be defined strictly as having an intact hymen?

Mainly because I like to get along with people and someone saying "I'm right, you're wrong and you will always be wrong" is not exactly conducive to good conversation.

So don't constantly say, "I am right and you are wrong and will always be wrong" - but the fact of the matter is, everyone thinks that about everyone else who disagrees with them about something.

And that's okay.

 

[_random_]

I am, of course, not Catholic, but why should virginity be defined strictly as having an intact hymen?

Don't ask me. Some people insisted that it would be necessary for her to be called ever-virgin, but they never really gave a satisifactory answer to this point.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Why should I give in and kowtow to the ever-changing opinions of the world?

God doesn't change just because some 21st century ignoramus doesn't like what he has revealed. Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. Your average joe reletavist can take that and shove it up whichever one of his bodily orifices he prefers as far as I'm concerned.

This really needs to be said more often...

No, the Orthodox are preferable

Hmm... This is interesting, and wouldn't it depend on which Orthodox? Many people in the Orthodox Church disagree with a lot of Catholic doctrines (Such as Eternal Hell, which is a pretty important one) which Baptists consider essentially non-debatable.

Do you have a problem saying that to YECs?

Of course not, since YEC isn't really a legitimate position to have

Which, even if its not right, it still is

Which I haven't anyway. All people, even those from other religions, have a chance of Salvation, yes, even though they might not be Roman Catholics.

As far as I've heard about Catholic doctrine (Correct me if you disagree with this though) you'd either have to never commit a mortal sin, ever (After Baptism if you're a non-Catholic Christian) or be PERFECTLY contrite, otherwise you are going to Hell...

Doesn't seem to give Protestants a very good chance, and essentially none if they are baptized as infants...

 

[civ_king]

This really needs to be said more often...



Hmm... This is interesting, and wouldn't it depend on which Orthodox? Many people in the Orthodox Church disagree with a lot of Catholic doctrines (Such as Eternal Hell, which is a pretty important one) which Baptists consider essentially non-debatable.



Of course not, since YEC isn't really a legitimate position to have

Which, even if its not right, it still is



As far as I've heard about Catholic doctrine (Correct me if you disagree with this though) you'd either have to never commit a mortal sin, ever (After Baptism if you're a non-Catholic Christian) or be PERFECTLY contrite, otherwise you are going to Hell...

Doesn't seem to give Protestants a very good chance, and essentially none if they are baptized as infants...

The Orthodox are the closest to the Catholic Church overall

How about flat earthers?

Basically, remember the caveats associated with "mortal sin".

 

[GhostWriter16]

The Orthodox are the closest to the Catholic Church overall

OK, well, except the Catholics of course

How about flat earthers?

Flat earth can be proven wrong by sailing around it

Basically, remember the caveats associated with "mortal sin".

Can you tell me what these caveats are (In PM if needed)?

From what I've heard, its nearly impossible to never mortally sin...

 

[civ_king]

OK, well, except the Catholics of course



Flat earth can be proven wrong by sailing around it



Can you tell me what these caveats are (In PM if needed)?

From what I've heard, its nearly impossible to never mortally sin...

You don't need to sail around the Earth, you just need to go a fair distance

Haven't we gone over the caveats like a half dozen times now? Does invincible ignorance ring any bells?

 

[GhostWriter16]

Haven't we gone over the caveats like a half dozen times now? Does invincible ignorance ring any bells?

That's for not believing in Catholicism. IIRC if you commit mortal sin though, that still damns you even if you aren't Catholic, and even if you have legitimate excuse for not being Catholic. Is this not correct?

I was more asking what preresequites exist for mortal sin...

 

[civ_king]

That's for not believing in Catholicism. IIRC if you commit mortal sin though, that still damns you even if you aren't Catholic, and even if you have legitimate excuse for not being Catholic. Is this not correct?

I was more asking what preresequites exist for mortal sin...

Invincible ignorance applies to mortal sin

 

[GhostWriter16]

Invincible ignorance applies to mortal sin

So basically, if you didn't know it was a sin.

But what if you did, yet you regret what you did? You are still damned, aren't you? Unless you convert to Catholicism....

 

[Jehoshua]

You would have to be perfectly contrite and then perhaps the mortal state of the sin would be absolved, if you actually managed perfect contrition that is. Simple regret is not enough.

 

[GhostWriter16]

You would have to be perfectly contrite and then perhaps the mortal state of the sin would be absolved, if you actually managed perfect contrition that is. Simple regret is not enough.

So, how would one go about doing this? What is required for perfect contrition?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Perfect Contrition (from the Latin for being completely crushed) is repentance that is motivated purely by the love of God.

Imperfect Contrition (or Attrition) is repentance from less pure motives, such as fear of the negative consequences that sin brings. As trying to avoid the punishment of hell is always imperfect contrition, fire and brimstone preaches only ever evoke imperfect contrition which is considered useless for absolving sins without the aid of the Church.

 

[Luckymoose]

I am, of course, not Catholic, but why should virginity be defined strictly as having an intact hymen?

There is stuff in the Protoevangelium of James about a mid-wife, or whatever you want to call them, physically breaking the hymen to prove her virginity before the birth.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Perfect Contrition (from the Latin for being completely crushed) is repentance that is motivated purely by the love of God.

Imperfect Contrition (or Attrition) is repentance from less pure motives, such as fear of the negative consequences that sin brings. As trying to avoid the punishment of hell is always imperfect contrition, fire and brimstone preaches only ever evoke imperfect contrition which is considered useless for absolving sins without the aid of the Church.

I was told by a Catholic (Jehoshua I think) that the intensity of the emotions of repentance also mattered.

 

[Jehoshua]

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04337a.htm

On contrition.

One of the elements required is the Interior Element. That is that a person has a contrite heart, and that their actions of penitence are no mere empty formality without that interior, deep, contrition and sorrowful penitence.

 

[civ_king]

If you have questions, but can't post you can PM them to me and I can post them (with response of course)

Moderator Action: No you can't. A ban is a ban.

 

[_random_]

Hmm... This is interesting, and wouldn't it depend on which Orthodox? Many people in the Orthodox Church disagree with a lot of Catholic doctrines (Such as Eternal Hell, which is a pretty important one) which Baptists consider essentially non-debatable.

Well, you also have things like Apostolic authority, the nature of the Sacraments, the veneration of the Saints, and the importance of tradition, so I'd say there's more than a bit of common ground.

 

[Jehoshua]

Well, you also have things like Apostolic authority, the nature of the Sacraments, the veneration of the Saints, and the importance of tradition, so I'd say there's more than a bit of common ground.

indeed.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Why should I give in and kowtow to the ever-changing opinions of the world?

God doesn't change just because some 21st century ignoramus doesn't like what he has revealed.

So ... you are God? Or are you claiming absolute knowledge about God? Have you considered that God might not change, but one's understanding might? Do you feel that all is understood in your religion? There are no new discoveries to be made which might lead to new insights? Is there room for improving the understanding of Biblical verses?

This really needs to be said more often...

You are encouraged to answer my questions as well