Ask a Pole

Why does the Polish language use such strange letter combinations to create the same sounds we have in other Latin alphabets?

Because certain Jakub Parkoszowic (Latin: Jacobus Parcossius) - author of the oldest known treatise about Polish ortography titled "Obiecado" ("Abecadło" in modern Polish), published in year 1440 (see: "Jacobi Parkossii de Zorawice de orthographia polonica libellus") - invented the ch and dz and ą. Later in year 1513 certain Stanisław Zaborowski in his "Ortographia seu modus recte scribendi et legendi polonicum idioma quam utilissimus" invented the letter ł and laid first foundations for the development of letters ś, ć and ź. For the later developments, check "the history of Polish ortography" wikipedia articles:

Wikipedia article about the letter Ł - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ł#Polish

The Polish Ł sounds similar to the English American "w", and to an extent the Arabic "ll" in "Allah".

In 1440 Jakub Parkoszowic proposed a letter resembling
e0b1619d1477befc6ebbc529e9218ac5.png
to represent clear L. For dark L he suggested l with a stroke running in the opposite direction as the modern version. The latter was introduced in 1514&#8211;1515 [written in 1513, published in 1514 and 2nd edition in 1515] by Stanis&#322;aw Zaborowski in his Orthographia seu modus recte scribendi et legendi Polonicum idioma quam utilissimus. L with stroke originally represented a velarized alveolar lateral approximant [&#619;],[1] a pronunciation which is preserved in the eastern part of Poland[2] and among the Polish minority in Lithuania, Belarus, and Ukraine. This pronunciation is similar to Russian unpalatalised <&#1051;> in native words and grammar forms.

In modern Polish, &#321; is normally pronounced /w/ (almost exactly as w in English as a consonant, as in were, will, wall but not as in new or straw).[3] This pronunciation first appeared among Polish lower classes in the 16th century. It was considered an uncultured accent by the upper classes (who pronounced &#321; almost exactly as: &#1083; in East Slavic languages or L in English pull) until the mid-20th century when this distinction gradually began to fade. Polish final &#321; also often corresponds to Ukrainian word-final <&#1042;> (Cyrillic) and Belarusian <&#1038;> (Cyrillic). Thus, "he gave" is "da&#322;" in Polish, "&#1076;&#1072;&#1074;" in Ukrainian, "&#1076;&#1072;&#1118;" in Belarusian (all pronounced [daw]), but "&#1076;&#1072;&#1083;" [da&#619;] in Russian. The old pronunciation [&#619;] of &#321; is still fully understandable but is considered theatrical in most regions.

Articles about the history of Polish ortography in general:

http://translate.google.com/transla...kipedia.org/wiki/Historia_ortografii_polskiej

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Polish_orthography

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historia_ortografii_polskiej

warpus said:
*Shrug* Every european language has its own quirks

But in the Early Middle Ages most of the writing in continental Europe was being done in a "dead language" - Latin - while "living languages" (those actually spoken by the masses) were only in use as spoken languages and as languages of customary law. In Charlemagne's Empire the only official written language was Latin - courts, administration, acts of written law and schools used exclusively Latin. But during the High and Late Middle Ages, living languages were increasingly becoming present in literature, law, schols, etc., gradually displacing Latin - at first French language, later (widespread use in writing since the 13th century) German, later (widespread use in writing since the 14th century) Czech language and - finally - Polish (widespread use in writing since the 15th century).
 
What are the national sources of pride for the modern Pole?

It's like.... everything :O Seriously - I think that we are just too proud actually. (imho)

Can you give us some examples of your favorite Polish cuisine?

"Schabowy z kapust&#261; (czy bez) zawsze jest the best" - this :

kotlet-schabowy-z-kapusta-550x220.jpg


Pork chop with cabbage (or without as the proverb goes :D)

Why does the Polish language use such strange letter combinations to create the same sounds we have in other Latin alphabets?

I do not know answear to that question :O Polish language does not sound like latin at all to me.
 
What's the best thing about being a Pole?

What's the worst thing about being a Pole?

If you could change one thing about Poland what would it be?

What is your most favorite neighboring country?

What is your least favorite neighboring country?
 
What's the best thing about being a Pole?

Being Central European par excellence.

What's the worst thing about being a Pole?

All these Poland-haters in the internet.

If you could change one thing about Poland what would it be?

Territory - expand the borders eastward to encompass, at least, Lwów and Grodno.

What is your most favorite neighboring country?

The Czech Republic.

What is your least favorite neighboring country?

I have no any least favorite neighbouring country. Each of them has some pros.

But if I have to choose one, then currently it is Belarus, because it is ruled by Lukashenko.

If you ask me about countries of the past, then Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.
 
Being Central European par excellence.
Why are you using French to justify your Central European identity? Aren't the French Western European?

I have no any least favorite neighbouring country. Each of them has some pros.
like what?
 
What's the collective noun for a group of Poles?

A palisade, of course.

Tolni said:
Um. Why wouid you like Belarus because of Lukashenko?

I wrote that Belarus is currently my least favorite neighboring country.

Perfection said:
like what?

Like losing every WW they start, for example.

Perfection said:
Aren't the French Western European?

During Napoleon they - briefly, but still - used to be Central, Eastern, Western, Northern and Southern European... :p

Now they are a hybrid between Mediterranean and Western European. And African, if including immigrants.
 
Have you ever been to (Prowincja Pozna&#324;ska) Posen? Does it still retain any sign of having once been a German province?

No any sign of having once been a German province - all concetration camps have been shut down.

Spoiler :
Of course I'm just joking!

Spoiler :
They have not been shut down! :mischief:
EDIT: To expand upon Smellincoffee's question - what do Poles feel about gaining vast swathes of German territory in the aftermath of world war 1 + 2?

We feel the same as Indians do about gaining vast swathes of English territory in the aftermath of 1947 - 1950.
 
What's the best thing about being a Pole?

For a Pole who lives outside of Poland, probably the fact that a very large Polish diaspora exists around the world. This means that I can open my front door, walk for about 15 minutes, and arrive at a Polish delicatessen store where I can buy Polish snacks, sausages, other foods, bread, soups, desserts, etc. Across the street is an Italian bakery/deli that sells a lot of Polish foods as well. There are also many other Polish stores around town, including a large one in the southern end of the city.

I guess this ties into my #2 - the food and cultural culinary traditions.. such as our Christmas and Easter traditions.

#3 - It means I have Canadian citizenship, passport, and associated rights.. as well as EU citizenship (and passport, should I want it). That sort of thing can come in handy.

What's the worst thing about being a Pole?

Everyone is a goddamn catholic and everyone looks at you funny if you aren't.

If you could change one thing about Poland what would it be?

I would make it the least religious country in the EU, not the most religious..

What is your most favorite neighboring country?

Probably Germany, because I lived there, and it was awesome and the people were very welcoming. I learned the language, the local customs, got used to the food, etc. Germany was my 2nd home.

What is your least favorite neighboring country?

Let's say Russia. I don't really have any other options. Maybe Belarus, but Russia is acting like a douchebag these days on the international arena, so it's easy to hate them. (The government, not the Russian people in general)
 
warpus said:
Everyone is a goddamn catholic and everyone looks at you funny if you aren't.

Really? I know both a few Protestant and a few Orthodox Poles, while grandfather of one of my friends was Jewish.

But maybe that's just because I come from a different region of Poland.

======================

Edit:

I mean "goddamn" Protestant, "goddamn" Orthodox and "jahwehdamn" Jewish.

warpus said:
Maybe Belarus, but Russia is acting like a douchebag these days on the international arena

Russia is currently not a threat to Poland, and Vladimir Putin's policies are not bad for Poland.

The Russian-Ukrainian conflict is only beneficial to Poland, and this no matter who wins this conflict.

First of all, Russian-Ukrainian hostilities are strengthening Western Ukraine's ties with Poland.

Belarus on the other hand is persecuting its very large ethnic Polish minority, so it's a bigger danger.

warpus said:
For a Pole who lives outside of Poland, probably the fact that a very large Polish diaspora exists around the world.

Some people are complaining about this large diaspora, but - on the other hand - it can also be a source of pride.

Look at Germans and Irish people - they are proud that German and Irish ancestries are so strong in the USA.

Poles are also among the largest ancestries in the USA, Canada and Australia - it can be viewed as something positive.

However, Irish-American and German-American diasporas seem to be preserving their ancestral cultures better.

So, there are things to be improved. That said, Polish-Americans often also tend to be "ancestry-patriotic" - AFAIK.
 
Sure, but out of all the countries that neighbour Poland, there isn't really any other one that stands out. If I had to pick one as "least favourite", right now it has to be Russia.

As for the catholic thing, where in Poland are you from? Poland is like what, 97% catholic? Or was, when I was growing up there. I mean, I get that there are people of other faiths who are Polish, but the whole "national faith" thing is a bit annoying.

This doesn't happen anymore, but:

"Son, it's time to do that weird easter thing with the eggs. Come on, we're getting sausages blessed."
"Why?"
"Because we're Polish, let's go"
 
where in Poland are you from?

Wielkopolska. My friend's grandfather was the only Jew in the town, IIRC.

There are also Jehovah's Witnesses over here. They make you feel their presence! << knock, knock; do you want to talk about salvation?" >>

They count among Protestants.

"Son, it's time to do that weird easter thing with the eggs. Come on, we're getting sausages blessed."

It's good to have your sausage and eggs blessed from time to time!

BTW - do you know this comparison of Catholicism and Protestantism from "Ziemia Obiecana"?:


Link to video.

but the whole "national faith" thing is a bit annoying.

Yes, I agree. But this notion is no longer as strong as in Communist times.

Poles were devout Catholics in Communist (!) times. When Communism ended, they started to be less religious. Poles are nonconformists. Poles are religious in atheist times, atheist in religious times, republican when others had absolute monarchy, conservatist when others are liberal and liberal when others are conservatist.

Poland had religious tolerance when others had religious wars, and religious wars when others had religious tolerance.

Damn it, we did not even have the Black Death in the same period as the rest of Europe.

Always going against the flow.
 
Quackers said:
what do Poles feel about gaining vast swathes of German territory in the aftermath of world war 1 +2?

We feel the same as Indians do about gaining vast swathes of English territory in the aftermath of 1947 - 1950.

To expand my previous answer - you might want to read this thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=536835

In the aftermath of WW1 Poland didn't get any German territory but only lands which had recently belonged to Poland as of 1772 (i.e. immediately before the First Partition) and were inhabited by Poles. Germany got them only as the result of the partitions of Poland + the Congress of Vienna (1772 - 1815).

Comparison of the borders of Poland in 1772, in 1937 and modern borders:

Spoiler :
Dark / light blue - borders / territory in 1772
Red / orange - borders / territory in 1937
Green - modern borders in this region


attachment.php

Areas with Polish population in the early 20th century (data from years between 1900 and 1919 depending on area):

Spoiler :
The_Poles_Map.png
======================

After WW2 - on the other hand - Poland indeed was given lands where majority of population as of 1939 considered themselves to be Germans, and which had been Polish politically and ethnically in the more distant historical past (during the Middle Ages and / or during the Early Modern Era).

On the other hand, after WW2 Poland lost her ethnic and historical (since the 1300s) territories in the East (so called Kresy) and between ca. 50% (Belarus, Lithuania) and ca. 80% (Ukraine) of eastern Poles were deported, like Germans were deported from western regions:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=13657294&postcount=6

Poles deported from Kresy and those who lost their homes as the result of WW2 (including the German demolishing of Warsaw) were transferred westward (but not all Poles deported from areas lost to the USSR settled in former German areas, many of them also settled in Central Poland):

Spoiler :
Mapa_ZO_3.png
 
Let's also add that:

Areas with Polish population in the early 20th century (data from years between 1900 and 1919 depending on area):

Spoiler :
The_Poles_Map.png

When it comes to Prussian lands, it was the situation after 145-180 years of Germanization policies*. Germanization had most significant effects in Pomerania, Silesia and East Prussia. But here is a nice documentary about Germanization in Greater Poland (known as Provinz Posen when part of Germany):


Link to video.

*180 years in case of Silesia (since 1740, when Prussia invaded Silesia). 140 years in case of lands taken during the Partitions (since 1772).
 
How are Polish people generally dispositioned towards Jews, Germans and Russians and why you think that is? From what I've gathered, I've heard Polish people generally dislike these ethnic groups. Also, how do Polish citizens generally think about EU integration? Poland is quite Eurosceptic isn't it? Has it to do with lingering animosity towards Germany?

These are stereotypes, but let's take a look at actual statistics.

From the 2013 survey by CBOS "Attitude of Poles towards other nations" (link):

http://www.cbos.pl/SPISKOM.POL/2013/K_012_13.PDF

Top 7 most disliked nations / ethnic groups (in order from most - Roma - to less disliked):

Roma (Gypsies)
Romanians
Turks
Palestinians
Vietnamese
Chinese
Serbs

Top 7 most liked nations / ethnic groups (in order from most - Czechs - to less liked):

Czechs
Slovaks
English people
Italians
Spaniards
Swiss people
Irish people

But CBOS has been carrying out this survey for over 20 years now and each year the results are slightly different.

Germans, Jews and Russians do not score among the most liked nations but also not among the least liked.

Though indeed they usually score in the bottom half, not in the top half (except for Germans who sometimes score in the middle).

French people usually score higher than English people - the 2013 result was rather unusual in this respect.
 
The Vietnamese are disliked in Poland?

Isn't there a small Vietnamese minority in the country? Is that why? .. Are they taking our jobs???

The Vietnamese are hated, maybe, because they open restaurants which are a bit like Chinese restaurants only better. So that the Chinese in Poland hate the Vietnamese, I can understand. But why the Poles?

Is it because the Vietnamese criminal classes "traditionally" grow cannabis in Polish houses?
 
Here in Canada, any Thai/Vietnamese restaurants opened by Vietnamese people serve really crappy Thai food - but pretty good Vietnamese food. At least from my experience. If you want good Thai food, stay away from Thai/Viet places owned by Vietnamese people.

But I don't hate Vietnamese people or anything. And it could have something to do with crime, but who knows.
 
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