You dont like war? I wonder what your Civ games looks like.
But seriously. It wasnt my intention to start an argument but rather to get to know the level on which you understand spirituality as such.
See, in my view the truth as described by different religions is quite correct or you can say that truth can be realized in different ways but it is essentially the same truth. So what I want to ask you is: Do you think that your religion is the ONLY correct one or do you think that it is the one best for you?
3. Judaism is more about Revelation, rather than Salvation.
The future WE await, is about "seeing G-d with our eyes" and "Earth being filled with knowledge of G-d".
I subscribe to this very much. But I see it the way that one has to Realize the Truth/God first, then one can try to Reveal it and ultimately Manifest it in Earths atmosphere. It is through the aspiring individual and limited consciousness which like a drop merges with the ocean and becomes ocean itself- the unlimited/infinite.
How do you see that yourself?
Of course a Jew can believe in Jesus. Just like a vegetarian can enjoy a rump steak, a peace activist can join a violent demonstration, and a dictator who preaches martyrdom can surrender himself to his enemies. As long as logic and clear thinking are suspended, anything makes sense!
Jesus of Nazareth who aspired to be the Mashiach and was executed by the court was also alluded to in Daniel's prophecies, as ibid. 11:14 states: 'The vulgar among your people shall exalt themselves in an attempt to fulfill the vision, but they shall stumble.'
Can there be a greater stumbling block than Christianity? All the prophets spoke of Mashiach as the redeemer of Israel and their savior who would gather their dispersed and strengthen their observance of the mitzvot. In contrast, Christianity caused the Jews to be slain by the sword, their remnants to be scattered and humbled, the Torah to be altered, and the majority of the world to err and serve a god other than the Lord.
Nevertheless, the intent of the Creator of the world is not within the power of man to comprehend, for His ways are not our ways, nor are His thoughts, our thoughts. Ultimately, all the deeds of Jesus of Nazareth and that Ishmaelite who arose after him will only serve to prepare the way for Mashiach's coming and the improvement of the entire world, motivating the nations to serve God together as Tzephaniah 3:9 states: 'I will transform the peoples to a purer language that they all will call upon the name of God and serve Him with one purpose.'
How will this come about? The entire world has already become filled with the mention of Mashiach, Torah, and mitzvot. These matters have been spread to the furthermost islands to many stubborn-hearted nations. They discuss these matters and the mitzvot of the Torah, saying: 'These mitzvot were true, but were already negated in the present age and are not applicable for all time.'
Others say: 'Implied in the mitzvot are hidden concepts that can not be understood simply. The Mashiach has already come and revealed those hidden truths.'
When the true Messianic king will arise and prove successful, his position becoming exalted and uplifted, they will all return and realize that their ancestors endowed them with a false heritage and their prophets and ancestors caused them to err.
Gorak
1. You'd be surprised.
I'm NEVER a warmonger.
NEVER.
Well, I lose quite often due to this, but I'm too LAZY to micromanage also my ARMIES anyways...
As of serious stuff:
I'm sorry for possibly offending anyone, but I'm sure, that Judaism is not only the "right" one, but also the "first" one, cause (according to Torah) the very FIRST man, Adam, already knew G-d.
As of "fit for someone", Judaism (for Jews) has an "offshoot", called Noahidism - for the entire humanity.
So, according to Judaism, you don't have to be Jewish, to serve the "Jewish" G-d.
(Oh, and there's only ONE G-d, the "Jewish" part is about OUR relations towards Him, not G-d Himself.)
2. I hope, it was useful.
3. I'm not disagreeing with your point, actually.
WE do have to do OURS, and then G-d will do His.
4. Chabad (the most notable Chassidic movement of today and yesterday AND tomorrow) Tanya (the main book of Chabad Chassidism; beware of its primary target being JEWS)
It's hard to make it a nutshell, but generally, Chassidism is the way to understand:
a. The entire universe and even the spiritual worlds, all were created for the Human.
b. What is the Human's role in the Creation.
c. Why there are two types of Humans - Jews and non-Jews.
d. What are the roles for each of them.
e. How each Human action is reflected in the entire Creation, including the most spiritual worlds.
f. What we know about G-d.
g. What we can know about G-d.
h. How we should understand, that we can't know anything about G-d; yet we must strive to understand what we CAN.
ETC... ETC... ETC...
The proper answer is that the Jewish concept of the Messiah is quite different from the Christian one, although the latter is derived from the first. The simplest answer is that in Judaic terms Jesus doesn´t qualify for being the Messiah.
All I could find here (and I wonder why you do not link to actual sources) is that 3 cities need to be conquered. I still do not see how it relates, especially to solving the ´Palestinian problem´. As is all of ´Godgiven´ Israel is already under Jewish control. Without any divine intervention I might add.
timtofly
Abraham of course - the question is kinda weird...
Adam wasn't "Jewish", if you're talking about that.
Though he spoke with the "same" G-d as Abraham, Moses and all true prophets.
Like I said above, before and everywhere - there's only ONE G-d.
JEELEN
Thanks.
My LINK2 was about how Jewish Law says pretty much the same thing.
(Though, Maimonides adds, that regardless of how wrong it is in the narrow sense, but it still led to people KNOWING the concept of Moshiach, except they err on WHO he is. But when the real one comes, most people won't be TOO surprised. )
...
What's "actual sources"?
Also, I've posted some maps somewhere on this thread, from wiki, with a MUCH bigger Israel, like twice in all directions.
So, what we have now, is but a fraction of the future country.
And I wouldn't call THAT "total control", sorry...
Would you agree that in western countries, Jews make Hannukah more important than it is (proportionally to other Jewish holidays) just to be "with" the Christians?
Like Christians do Christmas presents, so some Jewish people are making Hannukah a bigger deal than it was meant to be just to have an "equivalent" to their Christian neighbors? I mean, I do take it that Jewish people exchange presents and such on Hannukah, no?
What I'm saying that if it wasn't for the Christians having a holiday at roughly the same time of year, Hannukah would be much less of a "deal". No?
timtofly
Abraham of course - the question is kinda weird...
Adam wasn't "Jewish", if you're talking about that.
Though he spoke with the "same" G-d as Abraham, Moses and all true prophets.
Like I said above, before and everywhere - there's only ONE G-d.
JEELEN
Thanks.
My LINK2 was about how Jewish Law says pretty much the same thing.
(Though, Maimonides adds, that regardless of how wrong it is in the narrow sense, but it still led to people KNOWING the concept of Moshiach, except they err on WHO he is. But when the real one comes, most people won't be TOO surprised. )
...
What's "actual sources"?
Also, I've posted some maps somewhere on this thread, from wiki, with a MUCH bigger Israel, like twice in all directions.
So, what we have now, is but a fraction of the future country.
And I wouldn't call THAT "total control", sorry...
Oldschooler
Yes AND no.
As of presents, the real "presents" holiday is Purim, though it's rather about foods, than inedible gifts.
There is one custom for Chanukkah, that is most probably not much connected with your question:
On the fifth day, children usually receive some small money ("Chanukkah gelt/money").
The reason is different though - to teach children about GIVING, they're supposed to give some of it to charity.
I'd say, that "getting without giving", is not much of a Jewish way of thinking, thus we don't emphasize "presents" for birthdays or holidays.
Not that we couldn't give something to our children or friends - but the key idea is to teach about SHARING, not plain RECEIVING.
Now, back to Chanukkah.
The tendency of "drawing attention" in recent times is twofold, as usual.
The negative part is to draw attention of those unfortunates, that think like your question "why don't we have something similar".
But the positive part is emphasizing the miracle of LIGHT, both in physical and spiritual meanings.
So, while the "technical" reasons might be to "get attention of the wandering ones", the spiritual reason is LIGHT.
And we know, that darkness is but an absence of light, - bring in more light, and darkness disappears immediately.
timtofly
Funny, but no.
(Ishmael wasn't, and Isaac's son Esau is a serious question. Though, there is a view, that Esau WAS like an apostate Jew anyways.)
Until the Sinai revelation, being "Jewish" was not inheritable for 100%, unlike afterwards (born to a Jewish mother - Jewish forever; proper convert - according to some/most opinions, Jewish forever).
Thus:
Not all Abraham's descendants are Jews (Arabs an "Romans"/Europeans aren't).
Not all Jews are Abraham's descendants (converts can be as black/yellow/red/white, as you want).
Leoreth
Quite easy:
The original prohibition is to destroy the written Hebrew Names of G-d.
This was extended (as a precaution) to other languages too, also this is due to simple RESPECT.
Regarding DIGITAL "words", this wouldn't apply at all (we can't tell, whether these "words" even exist), but since there is a POSSIBILITY for the text to be printed and then destroyed, it's a good HABIT to do so EVERYWHERE.
Is it written somewhere in your holy book, or is it just unanimously decided that not writing god's name in full is a sign of respect for him? If it is not written down, one could also argue that not writing god's name in full is a sign of disrespect, after all...
I'm sorry for possibly offending anyone, but I'm sure, that Judaism is not only the "right" one, but also the "first" one, cause (according to Torah) the very FIRST man, Adam, already knew G-d.
What do you think about other religions claiming the same? After all, all of the Abrahamitic religions - correct me if I am wrong - claim that the first man, Adam, knew their god.
Do you see Christianity and Islam as a split-off of Judaism, or as other beliefs?
This is a racy question to ask, but as a Jew what do you think of Iranians? And especially, Iranian Americans.
I ask this because my dad is from Iran. Would you consider Iranians to be an "enemy" of the Jews?
edit: Another question I have regarding the whole Iranian thing.
My iranian family bombards me with Pro-persian propaganda, and I find it hard to separate fact from fiction as a result. I've ever heard that the Persian ruler Cyrus the Great was the only gentile to be crowned something (I forget exactly what) by Jewish people.
I've never heard an actual Jew say this though, so I tend to not believe it. Is it true?
strijder
I know, it's written somewhere, but can't find a link there (and I don't remember, where exactly).
Not the first time I encounter this "name-writing" question, though.
As of other religions:
Did you miss what I said, that there is only ONE G-d, and He's not "Jewish" or "Muslim" or "anything".
Those epithets are only regarding how those groups VIEW/DESCRIBE/RELATE to Him, not about WHO G-d is.
I'm not sure, what's the difference between "split-off" and "other".
Especially, since we clearly talk about the SAME G-d, just we view Him differently.
Let's say, a father of three kids: 5, 15 and 25 year olds, is viewed by them totally differently - but is he three persons? Off course, not. Same here.
Oldschooler
I think, no NATION should be blamed for stupidities of its INDIVIDUALS.
EDIT:
See Joecoolyo's post down there.
I'm not a very religious Jew, but I will comment that this question is ridiculous and I'm sure you recognize that.
Just because there are geopolitical tensions between the sole Iranian country and the sole Jewish country does not translate to being tensions between the two peoples. Other than the politics, there is nothing that would label us or cause us to be "enemies", and I mean nothing.
Gigaz
Unfortunately, no electricity on Sabbath.
Except, I'm in Europe now, so my times are different than, say, in USA.
So, I might end up writing on YOUR Sabbath, not MINE.
We are born with natural instincts for self-preservation. Babies are intrinsically selfish. They cry when they want to be fed, scream when they want to be held and take no interest in other people’s feelings and needs. From our earliest moments, we place ourselves and our needs ahead of others.
In a baby this attitude is cute and charming, but left unchecked this attitude grows corrosive and quickly loses its charm. We become demanding toddlers, then selfish children, and finally self-absorbed adults. The work of purification and refinement must begin early. There really is no time to waste.
Circumcision purifies and refines. It forces us to make a sacrifice. Removing the foreskin diminishes the pleasure and enjoyment of intercourse.1 We sacrifice such pleasure and proclaim that, on our scale, Divine instruction is a greater priority than self-gratification.
Males could have been created without the foreskin, yet G‑d wanted us to remove it ourselves. This was to demonstrate that as we complete the physical appearance of our bodies, so can we perfect the contours of our personalities and the shapes of our souls.
Babies aren't "selfish" as much as they don't know any better. Research shows that when you try to use force/violence/coercion to "discipline" a baby you make the later child more insecure, manipulative & needy. Religious types would do well to educate themselves about child development & the study of personality before spouting off nonsense. The author hasn't done well to "defend" the practice at all. A baby isn't a Jew (in the religious) sense. A less insecure punitive God would want his disciplines to consciously choose.
Did you miss what I said, that there is only ONE G-d, and He's not "Jewish" or "Muslim" or "anything".
Those epithets are only regarding how those groups VIEW/DESCRIBE/RELATE to Him, not about WHO G-d is.
I'm not sure, what's the difference between "split-off" and "other".
Especially, since we clearly talk about the SAME G-d, just we view Him differently.
Let's say, a father of three kids: 5, 15 and 25 year olds, is viewed by them totally differently - but is he three persons? Off course, not. Same here.
But what about religions which believe in more than one god? It is hard to think that that is still the same god, as there is more than one god in , for example, Hinduism.
I regard Orthodoxy, Catholicism, Protestantism and Mormonism as split-offs of Christianity, for example. Do you regard the three Abrahamitic religions as versions of the same religion, or three different religions?
Narz
No prob.
Doesn't mean, I can't counter it. LINK1
Spoiler:
Sorry for posting WHOLE articles, but I think they're relevant in whole.
We read in Genesis (17:7–27) how G‑d appears to Abraham and instructs him to circumcise himself and all the males of his household. G‑d further commands that henceforth every newborn male should be circumcised on the eighth day of his life, as a sign of the “eternal covenant” between G‑d and the seed of Abraham.
G‑d then informs Abraham that, in one year’s time, he and Sarah will have a son, Isaac. Abraham was nearing his hundredth year at the time, and Sarah was approaching the age of ninety; the two had been married for 75 childless years, and Sarah was physically incapable of having children. Abraham already had a son, Ishmael, born thirteen years earlier, after Sarah had urged him to marry her maidservant Hagar, so that he could father a child through her.
Abraham’s reaction to the divine promise was to proclaim, “If only Ishmael would live before You!” Abraham seems to be saying that he would be perfectly happy to see Ishmael as his heir—as the one who continues his life’s work and perpetuates his special relationship with G‑d.
G‑d rejects Abraham’s proposal. He reassures him that Ishmael will become a great people, “but my covenant I shall establish with Isaac.” Only Isaac, the son you will have with Sarah, can be your true heir, and only Isaac can father the people with whom I will enter into a covenant as my “kingdom of priests and holy nation.”
This is more than a technical choice. G‑d’s insistence on Isaac as the progenitor of His chosen people tells us something very fundamental about the nature of our relationship with Him.
For Ishmael and Isaac differed in two significant respects:
Ishmael came into the world by natural means, while Isaac’s birth was a supernatural event.
Ishmael was circumcised at the age of thirteen, the age of daat (awareness), whereas Isaac entered into the covenant of circumcision as an eight day-old infant—an age at which a person is not even aware of what is taking place, much less of its significance.
In other words, Ishmael represents a rational relationship with G‑d, one that is based upon a person’s nature and understanding. Isaac represents a supranatural, supra-rational bond.
Abraham discerned many positive qualities in Ishmael, and was prepared, and even desirous, to see him as his heir. Yet G‑d insisted that his covenant with Abraham be perpetuated specifically through Isaac and Isaac’s descendants—a people whose commitment to G‑d will transcend the natural and the rational.
Way back when, before the Democrats or Republicans were even thought of, a debate of an entirely different nature occupied the biblical stage.
Ishmael and Isaac were having it out. The topic: circumcision.
"See here," says Ishmael, "I am more precious in G‑d's eyes, since I was thirteen when I had mine done."
"I beg to differ," answered Isaac. "I was eight days old. Now that's gotta be way cooler."
You know, if I wasn't Isaac's grandson, I think I would side with the great uncle. Let's face it. Ishmael has a point.
He had the choice. He felt the pain. Here was a guy who chose to serve G‑d. That's real.
Isaac, on the other hand, was barely in diapers. Eight days old. What did he know? He didn't feel a thing (well, almost).
The Hebrew word for the special mitzvah of circumcision is brit, which translates as "covenant."
What is a covenant?
Two friends enjoying a relationship decide to take it a step further. One turns to the other and says, "Now things are great. This is going real well. But there may come a time when we may not feel for each other. You may not appeal to me anymore. The qualities that drew me to you and you to me may fade or dissipate. What then?"
So they make a pact, a covenant. An unconditional commitment that come what may, they will always be there for each other.
They have taken a relationship that was limited to reasons and made it unlimited and pure. They have taken something from the conscious and moved it to the realm of the subconscious, from the external to the internal and finally to the eternal.
"On that day, G‑d formed a pact with Abraham..." (Genesis 15:18).
G‑d: Today I am in love. You are My beloved. You are overflowing with faith, a paradigm of self-sacrifice, a lover of G‑d, a man filled with kindness...
There will come a time, though, when your children will look slightly different. They will rebel and complain, ignore and forget. They will be unfaithful to Me time and again. They will run, they will hide, they will try to assimilate.
What then?
Abraham: And what about Egypt and Pharaoh, 40 years in the desert, wars and more wars, eviction from the Holy Land, the destruction of both Holy Temples, exile after exile, the Spanish Inquisition, the persecution and oppression, the Cossacks and the Crusades, the ghettos and pogroms, the yellow Stars of David, Kristallnacht and Auschwitz, the Intifada and the Katyushas, missiles and suicide bombers? My little Shalhevet... What then?
"On that day, G‑d formed a pact with Abraham."
An unconditional pact. A commitment for all times. A bond of eternity.
"This is the pact that you should observe, between Me and you and your seed forever; every male should be circumcised."
On the other hand, Ishmael's choice was limited. There was a reason behind his choice. He chose because... "Because" is a limitation. It is conditional and, ergo, short term.
A human's finite fingerprints have no place in the world of an infinite pact.
It is precisely this choice that is out of place.
Isaac, on the other hand, slept like a babe.
He didn't get in the way. That's the only way it can work.
strijder
The question was specifically about Christianity and Islam - in THOSE, we talk about the SAME G-d.
In others, we just don't.
And I was thinking about "sects", when I asked about the difference between split-off and different.
Hinduism is not a "split-off", cause it has different "starting premises", while Islam has the same, just the "resulting data" differs.
Abrahamic religions are like Opera, IE and Firefox; while Hinduism would be already Skype or Word.
Looks similar, but works differently and has different goals.
I'm not a very religious Jew, but I will comment that this question is ridiculous and I'm sure you recognize that.
Just because there are geopolitical tensions between the sole Iranian country and the sole Jewish country does not translate to being tensions between the two peoples. Other than the politics, there is nothing that would label us or cause us to be "enemies", and I mean nothing.
I only brought this up because of something my dad (who is Iranian) told me.
He told me when he was in college (this was in the 70's), in America, he dated a Jewish girl for some time and some Jewish guys gave him some trouble about it, and even told the girl "why are you with an enemy"
I'm just trying to see if "iranians are enemies" is a common Jewish belief (no offense), or if it is few and far between.
Based on what you're saying though, I'm guessing the answer is no. And that makes me happy. The few Jews I've actually talked to have been rather open minded people. It's just the emphasis is on few so I don't really know how the Jewish community at large feels about Iranians.
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