Ask an atheist

[Ziggy Stardust]

I am talking about the ultimate possibilities.

See, now you have to explain to me what ultimate possibilities are.

if you were talking to me about nuclear chain reaction I wouldnt respond to you that you should go break up some atoms knowing that you probably do not have the needed reactor at home...

The difference being, you claim to have a soul at home. I didn't claim to have a reactor at home.

This opens up for you unlimited possibilities. Your words. But since you introduced the term ultimate possibilities I'll await your explanation for this one.

I think the end of the story will be that in this life you're as limited as I am. Maybe even more limited, since in areas where I fill in: "I don't know" on the dotted line you would fill in: "Has unwavering faith in <...>". I have room to manoeuvre, you don't.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

See, now you have to explain to me what ultimate possibilities are.
The difference being, you claim to have a soul at home. I didn't claim to have a reactor at home.

This opens up for you unlimited possibilities. Your words. But since you introduced the term ultimate possibilities I'll await your explanation for this one.

I think the end of the story will be that in this life you're as limited as I am. Maybe even more limited, since in areas where I fill in: "I don't know" on the dotted line you would fill in: "Has unwavering faith in <...>". I have room to manoeuvre, you don't.

Yes I believe that everybody has a soul at home and if one tryies hard enough one can unlock its possibilities. This is in no way a contest for me so if you are in any way more free that me than you have my congratulations....

I believe it was Jesus who tryied to inspire the people to be like their Father in Heaven. He didnt say:" Compete!"


The ultimate possibility is the realisation of oneness with God.

 

[madviking]

I'm just gonna say that this thread is useless. What I mean is that atheism should be presupposed, and then theists need to prove the god(s) definitely exists. THEN you can have this thread.

 

[Leoreth]

I'm just gonna say that this thread is useless. What I mean is that atheism should be presupposed, and then theists need to prove the god(s) definitely exists. THEN you can have this thread.

In my opinion nobody needs to prove anything to anyone.

This thread is to deal with misunderstandings and misconceptions about atheism and what it encompasses and what not.

What's useless here is religious people stepping over and telling all atheists they're wrong, and atheists responding "no you're wrong" in every way that goes beyond pointing out wrong assumptions in these criticisms.

 

[Smellincoffee]

I'm just gonna say that this thread is useless. What I mean is that atheism should be presupposed, and then theists need to prove the god(s) definitely exists. THEN you can have this thread.

I can only speak for my own experience, but back in my religious (Pentecostal) days, I never met an atheist and my entire perception of them was shaped by preachers -- who'd also never met an atheist, but I didn't know that. Had I known atheists were just like everyone else, and not the bogeymen I heard of from the pulpit, I would have been in a better position to learn why someone could think the way they did.

 

[LucyDuke]

Since nothing matters, (the objective truth of atheism) then what does it matter if an organism that lives 70 years on average if lucky, makes it's own life more pleasant by believing in something that may not be real? what does it matter?

Everything will be dust and dark echoing space in the end no matter what endeavours or truths are learnt, so what does it matter if a small, sad and lonely organism on a tiny little rock decides to anaesthetise his cruel, short existence with hope?

That's not true at all. There's no God to make things matter. We're here, though. Things matter to us.

As the others have said (Ziggy, you're rocking this), it's up to you. Nobody's going to spoonfeed you meaning, you're an adult and you have to find it for yourself. I suggest thinking about your relationships and the things you consider beautiful.

Only a month ago i read that feelings of altruism and goodwill are only biological, that helping other humans makes us feel good because nature made us that way to survive as a group, it has nothing to do with an individual being good, it's just programming according to the article i read.

Why shouldn't findings like these make me depressed? the "truth" is stripping man of his very being, of everything we thought was good about us, turns out it's just programming, bit by bit stripped of all decency, no merit or credit to us, just automatons, at least the idea of god had some hope going for it.

Only biological? Don't downplay that, it's awesome. We're fundamentally good! Some people want us to believe that we're born "sinners", that there's something fundamentally bad about us, but the exact opposite is true.

 

[Clement]

That's not true at all. There's no God to make things matter. We're here, though. Things matter to us.

While we live yes, but it is all cancelled out by death the moment we die, because nothing continues afterward, and the universe will end too, nothing that went on inside it will endure or ultimately matter once it is spent.

As the others have said (Ziggy, you're rocking this), it's up to you. Nobody's going to spoonfeed you meaning, you're an adult and you have to find it for yourself. I suggest thinking about your relationships and the things you consider beautiful.

It's not a case of being spoonfed or finding the meaning myself, other than holding on in fear of loss of life, my own and those i love, there is no meaning to life, i did once have a false meaning when i believed in god, but that is gone and has been replaced with nothing, all relationships will end, all good acts will disappear as will bad, and once my mind ceases to exist i may as well have never existed.

Only biological? Don't downplay that, it's awesome. We're fundamentally good! Some people want us to believe that we're born "sinners", that there's something fundamentally bad about us, but the exact opposite is true.

I'm sorry but i can't share your sense of enthusiasm for finding out i am a pre-programmed robot that doesn't actually exist as an individual, for me this was a huge demotion from what i once thought i was, which was a special being with a future, specifically made by a supreme being that loved me, and a great goal at the end of a hard race, salvation if you will, as for us being fundamentally good, i think science may say otherwise, it sounds just as ridiculous as saying we are all fundamentally bad.

In my case the truth was a poor trade for my faith, but i don't have the luxury of going back.

 

[LucyDuke]

You're alive right now, aren't you?

 

[Yui108]

Right now I don't particularly find truth in Christian dogma, but I do believe in God because of the First-Cause argument. Or something that started the universe, that may as well be called God, or an Unmoved Mover. Bertrand Russell disregarded the First-Cause argument by saying that something had to have moved God, didn't it? But in my opinion, that is exactly what makes him God. Thoughts?

 

[El_Machinae]

Well, on the face of it, I don't see any reason why a first cause needs to be sentient or involved in morality.

 

[Clement]

You're alive right now, aren't you?

From what i've read in various articles, scientifically speaking no, there is no such thing as "me", i am a collection of living cells, my brain could be cut into and have pieces of it removed, and depending on which parts were cut out, i'd either feel no different, have my character completely altered or become brain damaged, there is no permanent "me" as my faith used to have me believe, as i don't have an indestructible soul that saves my character like a memory card, ironically i don't even have to wait for death in order to technically not exist as an individual.

Philosophically speaking though, yes i could possibly be alive.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Clement, your post doesn't make sense. You know why? Because it's just bits being on or off. How can your post have any meaning when it's components are just 1's and 0's? There is no way you can communicate a clear message by putting bits on and off.

Or is there?

 

[Clement]

Clement, your post doesn't make sense. You know why? Because it's just bits being on or off. How can your post have any meaning when it's components are just 1's and 0's? There is no way you can communicate a clear message by putting bits on and off.

Or is there?

Thats why i said philosophically speaking there is a me, because the sum parts make up the whole, technically though there isn't a me, or so i've been told, and the universe is still going to ultimately expend itself and render just about everything that happened inside it pointless.

I'm going to change my avatar to one of Marvin the paranoid android, because i am starting to sound like him.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Thats why i said philosophically speaking there is a me, because the sum parts make up the whole, technically though there isn't a me, or so i've been told, and the universe is still going to ultimately expend itself and render just about everything that happened inside it pointless.

Don't worry about that. That'll take billions of billions of years. In just a billion the sun's going to BBQ us so we'll be toast long before that.

There, hope that cheered you up

And might I suggest Eeyore?

 

[Akka]

While we live yes, but it is all cancelled out by death the moment we die, because nothing continues afterward, and the universe will end too, nothing that went on inside it will endure or ultimately matter once it is spent.

So what ?
You're dating a woman. Do you consider your love with her pointless and worthless just because in two years you may or may not be still together ?
You're spending an afternoon with friends and are having a blast. Does it make your friendship worthless and pointless just because some day you may not be friend with them anymore ?
You're eating a delicious dinner. Is this the same as fast-fooding yourself in a crappy McDonald just because one hour later you'll no longer have the taste in mouth ?

 

[Clement]

So what ?
You're dating a woman. Do you consider your love with her pointless and worthless just because in two years you may or may not be still together ?
You're spending an afternoon with friends and are having a blast. Does it make your friendship worthless and pointless just because some day you may not be friend with them anymore ?
You're eating a delicious dinner. Is this the same as fast-fooding yourself in a crappy McDonald just because one hour later you'll no longer have the taste in mouth ?

No of course, i enjoy whatever happiness i am lucky enough to have in life as i am of course human with human needs, (no doubt biologically programmed) but when i take a step back and look at the situation i am in as a sentient being, i now know there is no happy ever after, no salvation, no faith to help me bear illness or hurt, no re-union with those i lost and loved more than i love myself.

All the wonderful people i've met in my life i'l never see again, my memories and thoughts will be gone forever, it is incredibly painful to think about and i do so regularly not on purpose, but because thats the way my mind wanders since i lost my faith, it's not something i suffered from when i had faith in god.

All i'm saying is that i was happier when i believed in God, heck i was much happier, and that the "truth" is not even close an adequate substitute for the peace of mind i used to enjoy, i don't feel set free at all, i feel like i've been crushed.

 

[Linkman226]

I, for one, find it hilarious than anyone should need the false promise of a magical unicorn land to keep then happy. I honestly don't give two cents that my life didn't mean anything; I'll enjoy it nonetheless.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

So after my long winded post comes my question,

What do you find uplifting about atheism, or if not uplifting, what makes it preferable to you than having faith in a deity of some kind?

I think for most of "us", it's not about some choice we've made between having faith and not having faith for the sake of being uplifted. There's actually no choice to be made. I've always been quite a logical and scientific person and the simple fact is that I have never, ever seen any sort of real evidence for the existence of any sort of God, other than other people saying there is one. And that's just not enough to make me believe in one. That coupled with all the strong evidence for lots and lots of things that fly in the face of most religious beliefs. It's like asking someone why they made a choice between believing they have a brain in their head and believing they have magic unicorn tears in their head - it's not going to be about which makes them feel better, it's just about which is patently obvious and which is absurd.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

I, for one, find it hilarious than anyone should need the false promise of a magical unicorn land to keep then happy. I honestly don't give two cents that my life didn't mean anything; I'll enjoy it nonetheless.

I do no about the unicorns but there is definitely sort of people who may be little disgusted with the world as it is or even with something in their own lives (i am one of them) and then they just start considering other possibilities...

 

[Linkman226]

I'm sorry but I don't get what you're trying to say gorakshanat