Glossysushi lock town. Just think about it; why would she get this amount of heat and votes if she is scum? If she is scum with that amount of post and motivation, she would be leading that scum team - I highly doubt her scum buddies would be voting her in that situation, especially when it's easy enough to find reasons that she is town as explanation for not doing so.
-10 arbitrary points for using 'lock town' unironically. No one is ever locked. Ever. Not even a cop scan gives you carte blanche to me.
Super aggressive posts aren't some magic contextual cleanser. Nor is a huge amount of pressure early on. The latter is fairly striking very often, but there's no magic bullet. Aside from some basic premises, Mafia is a lot of convention and general psychology. We all float down here. X could not be Y in context Z is not a law. It can be a very reliable marker, but nothing more. It's an aggregation of probabilities. Never think in certainties. You get screwed eventually. Beyond his charisma and gift for obfuscation, role hunting, and keen instincts, okay this metaphor might getting a bit lost, half some of why Pizza is such a legend is because he does unconventional things which throws the route takers through a loop, and he dances right around them. They're thinking in lines, he's thinking with portals. (metaphor was dead anyway)
In the 2+2 mafia championships, the town had a qualifying match where they didn't lynch any mafia. That's humiliating in that kind of stage. And why? Because the town beacon of hope was a super aggressive polemic player who was locked clear. At which point the town had a blind spot, and the pug stabbed them straight in the eye.
I don't remember who said it, but whoever earlier alluded to never actually being assured anything was dead right. I like your conclusion, but the qualifying argument is a trap.
I don't think so (at least I don't recognise your handle)? If it helps, my name doesn't really change. I've played several games at DM, once each at PersC, MU and The Org, this one here and a mash/turbo at PoG.
Hmm. You might have one of those voices. Your style is very recognizable to me. It stands out in relief to the thread. It reminds me of two people I knew when I went under the handle 'Rift'.
I have a question for you about your vote/following Murska onto Choxorn. You've said that it was because you didn't have a good scum lean and yourself and Murska had a decent meld on reads. Looking at Murska's posts though, he didn't give reads before his vote/has since only given a list of will/won't lynch. AFAICT his reasoning on Choxorn is pretty much 'voting mostly for a prod, not really scum hunting, other people say he's in his meta - meh'. 1. What reads did you and Murska meld on? And whatever they were, what were your reasons for agreeing? 2. Why Choxorn?
hat are the meta reasons for considering a switch to Jarema?
If you have reasons for a vote/lean, give them, IMO - meta or no. If you're Town I see no reason to leave your reasoning out. It helps explain your thought process and makes it easier to determine your motivation/legitimacy in voting after flips. How much 'proof' you provide/leave out is up to you (and although there's no obligation to read every linked game etc, how far others decide to dig into that or not is up to them). All of that and how it's used in the context of the game is helpful in deciding alignments, especially later game. So, if you have reasons, give them. Otherwise it just looks like a cop-out/scummy to say 'I have reasons but *convenient excuse to leave them out*'
Jarema is to me the iconic town slacker. When he's town he has a tendency to show up promptly twice a day and gives you nothing to go on. Eh, here's a vote, maybe a comment. Kay thanks see ya. He's not JTH (or Phantom from the Playground) unreadable, but he's clearly not here to give you consideration just for a convenient read. Here he looks like he's struggling to put in an effort. That's a bit of scum tell for him at times. But, the other explanation is he's floundering in the flood of posts.
I disagree a bit on leaving things out. Sometimes information abnegation is a town tool, it's just a precise one you have to think about. Same as lying. Same as voting for yourself, which I've done thrice, two of which to good effect. It's why Lassie's concessional argument rubs me wrong. My third game as town I saw Pizza come in and destroy 3 major preconceptions of how the game is played. It's influenced me in mafia ever since.
Cuth, don't take this wrong, but, could you return to using basic grammar? You're a very colorful poster normally, and well, I have a distinct aversion to reading anything that lacks it. *It also induces me to dismiss whatever the person is saying, which is technically a fallacy, but it's usually accurate enough over the years that I'm not liable to change on this issue.
I'm not sure that people understand the concept of a random vote. I rolled 1d100, divided it by four and voted for KM based on that. Would you prefer a spurious reason instead?
Just took this from the player roster. Here's my reads list.
al sipsclar- Done very little. Voted visor, that's it. Scum.
arakhor- Has not defended himself much or given many reads. Scum.
autolycus- Uhh, I think I remember a catch up post, but still nothing. Null.
backwards logic- Has posted several rant like posts complaining about speed of the thread and fluff. Has had some bad reactions to votes on both himself and others. Scum.
bsmith- posted once or twice. Can't tell. Null.
cass_- The only reason I'm town reading her atm is because Cuth has spewed her town by white knighting her and soft defending her.
choxorn- Low content, has provided helpful answers when I've asked, but has done little analysis or work on his own. However, his tone seems good. Slight town lean.
cuthilius- Very strange reaction to Visor, then switch to me looks strange after I move off Visor. Doesn't think that visor and I are teamed, yet has us as his top scum reads. Compare his play this game to Mel Gibson, and I think we've got a winner. Scum.
edse- Has posted very little. Seems scummy to me, so I'm reading him as the opposite because I can't read him apparently. Town lean.
glossysushi- Me. Lock town.
golden1knight- His one catch up post to vote thread consensus 'randomly' doesn't look very good. That's an understatement. Combined with being called out by King Morgan (instead of all the other lurkers that KM could possibly call out). Scum.
jarrema- Has made several moves like voting me with pretty good reasoning that I don't think would come from scum. Visor also apparently reads her well, and he's reading her as town. However, I disagree with his comment about one of her last posts looking townie. Her last post about Lassie needing to die if I am scum (lol!) does not look townie. Lassie isn't the only one who has defended me, and he's been very townie. This looks like a safe threat to make. Scum lean.
kennigit- Has been pretty consensus town read. I like his push on me and his progression seems natural. However, I would not like him to sit back and relax, so I do want to see more work from him, especially his thoughts irt recent happenings. Town.
kingmorgan- At first, I thought he was townie because of his line of questioning, reasoning of votes, and general content. However, Arakhtor's 'random' vote on him and his backing off from Visor because of reward/incentive reasons makes him look bad. Scum.
landlubber- Again, I have some misgivings. Her vote on Visor seemed to be just as heat was starting to pick up on him, though her reasons for it were fine. Her vote onto another leading wagon was seen as opportunistic by Zack, which I actually agree with. The timing was bad, and the reasoning was not as solid as the first time around. But, her reactions and her anger have seemed very townie... Town lean.
lassie- My strongest town read. Really bad thread entrance, check. A lot of aggressive voting, check. Explanations of reads are really good. Interactions with others always have him come off looking better. Also has me pocketed, lel.
legato endless- Super towny tone and natural responses. I really liked her defense of Cuthilius, because it seemed she really believed what she said. However, I don't think this defense clears Cuth in any way. In fact, his response to her defense (not addressing it, and saying that what she's done isn't particularly townie) again spews her as town. Town.
lohrenswald- Initially I liked her interactions with Lassie, but right now she's skating by on nothing but a wide amount of thread consensus that she's town. She needs to step it up. Town lean.
mat93- Again, starting to doubt. His reactions to other people's questioning and his reads are pretty good, imo. However, his exchange with Cuthilius looks really strange. Neither of them look good from that. Scum lean.
murska- At some point I had a town lean on her, because of her reentry into the thread and explanation of her voting. However, a lot of her current voting seems to be moving along to thread consensus, she has not provided am updated WTL list, and she has said outright scummy things about lynching people she has not solidly given a scum read on. I see no consideration of the other people in the game besides the top wagons in her reads. Scum.
newyn- Apparently he's town, but I really have no clue.
pouter pigeon- Starting to really like his content. My town read on him is strengthening, especially with his wolf ping on Mat, which I agree with a lot. Town.
sooh- Going AWOL. I liked her catch up reads list a lot, so I'm going to temporarily give her a town lean. Town lean.
takhisis- I know nothing. However, everyone seems to think he's town, or at least, a lot of people are ignoring him. Town lean.
visorslash- His last few posts have been townie, and I really think it would be reaching for me to continue to tunnel him. His response to being prodded is the only thing that's mildly suspicious, but it's not enough to warrant a scum read/lynching. I buy that he wanted to chill and not do as much work. Town.
xym- The very few posts she's made seem to be of good content and do not seem to be an attempt to sheep thread consensus. Town.
zack- His attitude seems to be super towny, though there is a world in which I tinfoil and see all the things he's said as mere distraction from game content. Town for now.
All right, I halfway exist now. Gotta do some astrophysics homework and eat and clean some sprues.
Would vote for:
al sipsclar
backwards logic
choxorn (though apparently he's acting like his meta. *shrug* Still don't like it.)
visorslash (Hmm...)
Would not vote for:
cuthilius
glossysushi
Would not vote for the rest either, but mostly because there's already people I would rather vote for, or minor town leans.
Murska's town list resonated with me, especially as the other notable person in the thread who was against Cuth being lynched. I also am just biased against lynching Sushi now regardless of my read. Admittedly not much to go along. I'm not particularly inclined to seeing Visor go yet though. There's too many assumptions I see being made, and my read on Visor as a general player is a bit different, There's a bit of good tactics but perhaps not ideal strategy going along with his early death. This is not something I will elaborate on, as it.
I will admit though, Visor is acting very different. I'm just not sure what it means.
Reason: Mostly just a prod. He's posted during various times, so appears to be following, but hasn't contributed much of anything that actually relates to scumhunting.
Earlier he said this, which conflated in my mind to be a more ringing endorsement of Choxorn's need to die. Need here being, eh, that sounds decent for day 1. Grah, I have to figure out someone new to change to.
*I make a general exception to people who simply aren't compositionally inclined, atypical neurology and the like, as they can be otherwise insightful. But anyone else brooks no such consideration.
Sarcasm is a bad look here IMO, and I can't figure you and Visor out. You think you/Al Sips are bad options? I get why you'd be annoyed at you being a pick if you're Town, but why should the option of Al Sips bother you?
I've said, I'm not going to go over that at this point, it'll clarify and progress over depending on what happens in thread. Purposefully avoiding that.
Sushi's reads and what she's saying and advocating are not constants. Read her posts.
I just looked and his posting's completely different there.
I've said, I'm not going to go over that at this point, it'll clarify and progress over depending on what happens in thread. Purposefully avoiding that.
Sushi's reads and what she's saying and advocating are not constants. Read her posts.
ISO reads, in order from lowest to highest post count:
Golden1Knight - 1 post, leaning towards scum. He did the random vote on Cuthilius and then just left. I didn't find it scummy at first, assuming he would get to work and change it. But as I see it now, it looks bad - if he's scum, he spews Cuth towards town. Autolycus - 1 post, basically the same as Golden1Knight, but with a vote on Zack - but has a fairly more towny tone to his post and way of doing his vote. So for now, I wouldn't lynch here. BSmith1068 - 2 posts, both which are just complaints about amount of posts and lack of times. No vote thrown, but says he leans away from a Visor vote. Not too impressed, but shouldn't be a lynch target based on this. Al Sipsclar - 2 posts, I agree it doesn't look good for him. So I wouldn't hate a lynch of him, although I'd still like to find one I feel more sure of, than one with 2 posts.
Backwards Logic - 2 posts, first post isn't too bad, a vote on Edse with some reasoning behind. His long complain post about fluff and high activity seems towny to me. Would be nice to see some solving from him, as I can see he is capable of hitting his keyboard. Xym - 4 posts, still not liking his "pressure vote" on Arakhor(why state it is for pressure, if you try to pressure?..). Not liking the vibe I get from his other posts as well, wouldn't mind a lynch of him. Too much in commentary mode, and also note that his third post could make him likely to be scum buddy with Golden1Knight, if Golden1Knight is scum. Edse - 4 posts, I think I had him towards town earlier - I'm not finding reason for that now. Not particularly scummy either, but towards that. Newyn - 6 posts, 5 of his posts are joke references to being a scum. Based on experience, scums rarely write such things. It's "too scummy to be scum", I'd say. But not at all cleared based on this either. Pouter Pigeon - 6 posts, feels somewhat towny, has lots of meat to his posts. Fine for now Kennigit - 7 posts, I like his tone and aggressiveness, would be nice to see some more from him though. Also, town credit for caring to collect all votes and post an overview. Murska - 10 posts, his first post still has a weird vibe to it "Reasoning so far seems a bit weak, but early aggression is necessary for results.". Not that I disagree, but just seems like a strange thing to point out in your very first post. His post on Choxorn does look fine. Looking at him in ISO now, he makes more sense, which looks good for him. Also fairly towny that he changes vote with the reasoning "my current vote doesn't generate pressure". Choxorn - 10 posts, scum vibes from his posts, mostly just questions, comments and talk to excuse himself to not have any good reads. Complains about me, Visor and Glossy, with focus on Glossy arguing that it's good for the scum that she posts so much.. Seems more like an excuse to throw shade. Later he votes Cuth, which just seems a bit opportunistic, imo. If Cuth is town, I feel there's a good chance choxorn is scum. Also, this sounds like a scum perspective "Out of all my choices, I'd say Vote: Cuthillius" - choices sounds more like he could pick anyone, and that he doesn't necessarily see these options as scummy. Legato Endless - 10 posts, I like the tone and solvyness in his posts - towards town, with no apparent reason to suspect him at this point KingMorgan - 12 posts, not liking his theory of Glossy+Visor being scum buddies, as that's probably the most unlikely scum pair of all. Also has a post containing " i'm still thinking about it." at the end of a line describing Mat93 and Cuth doing odd things(in his opinion) - feels weird to me, the thing about writing that he is still thinking about it. Scummy that he says things like "If Visor is off the table, then I could lynch Al Sips / Arakhor / Mat93 / LandLubber" - pretty much admitting to just follow the stream. Jarrema - 12 posts, his initial focus on Visor and me isn't too impressive. Uses some weird psychotherapy theory to justify focusing top posters.. lol. Comments on someone else's read list instead of making his own, not good either.
Running out of time, and I already have more of an idea where to put the more active players, so this will be it, my rank list:
Lock town:
Lassie
Glossysushi Strongly towards town:
Visorslash
Lohrenswald Towards town:
Mat93
Murska
Kennigit
Zack
Newyn
Takhisis
Cass
Autolycus Null:
landlubber
Cuthilius
BSmith1068
Edse
Sooh Slightly towards scummy:
Arakhor
Al Sipsclar
Jarrema Towards scummy:
Choxorn
Golden1Knight
Xym
KingMorgan
The 4 I have listed in Towards scummy will be those I will be willing to vote on.
I'll start a KingMorgan wagon Vote KingMorgan
At that point I'd rather you lynch me because at least there's plenty of information. Just lynching an inactive is pretty pointless, and a shot in the dark. At least give him another day and see if posting picks up or something.
Sushi has a lot of potential as an asset if he's left alive and town. Edse is a cunning player, but he's not going to be giving the same amount of information alive as an early investment. That makes him a fine lynch for data because there's less utility sacrifice early on if we're wrong.
How do you know where most people are looking? Maybe I'm mistaken, but the town isn't really a mob mentality now. It's more like a dozen overlapping dinner parties.
"-10 arbitrary points for using 'lock town' unironically. No one is ever locked. Ever. Not even a cop scan gives you carte blanche to me. " That's fine in theory, but practically I mean she is locked town. I'm not seeing myself voting her in this game.
Wait, what? You aren't making a whole lot of sense right now?
I think edse's scum. I also think sushi is scum. Thus, I want to make sure sushi does not think we should lynch edse, because then they are probably not w/w and sushi is a stronger lead.
You may be asking why not lynch sushi? because that wagon is probably not going to end up going through, and like you said the goal is to lynch wolves. Thus I default to next most suspicious that most people aren't looking at
This post makes me feel better about Cuth. I often have the same mentality when I'm town, though I usually prefer not to act on it. And I know that Cuth and I occasionally share certain aspects of our playstyle (this can be a trap for me when I try to read him, but eh). The logic is that you'd rather be doing something effective with your lynch vote, so looking for a target that's more likely to get lynched makes sense.
So town points for Cuth.
Can someone define white knighting and spew for me? Googling those terms only gave vague definitions...
The only way someone can be "lock town" is if you're both masons and even then there's a chance that they're scum. Besides, claiming that you yourself are "lock town" is useless, because presumably everyone would say that. I know that I am, for instance.
White knighting - coming to someone's defense instead of letting the person defend themselves. Often unnecessary, and the person getting white knighted does not appreciate it. Usually it's done with intentions to make oneself look better, especially in front of the person getting defended. Originally used in the context of what 'nice guys' did for girls in hopes of getting laid, it has now gone out of these boundaries and become a commonly used term also in Mafia communities.
Spew - Imagine vomit coming out of someone's mouth after you sock them in the stomach. That's the original definition - upchuck. However, it is now used in Mafia communities to indicate the spittle/upchuck left behind by caught/dead scum that implicates or clears people who interact with them.
As explained in my list, I liked his first post a little, and the second post, where he wrote like 2 pages about activity, fluff and meta reads, didn't strike me as something a scum would care to write.
As explained in my list, I liked his first post a little, and the second post, where he wrote like 2 pages about activity, fluff and meta reads, didn't strike me as something a scum would care to write.
second post could of course just be a good excuse for doing nothing, but I'd say it's a bit of a low blow to make that his tactic as scum, right after Pizza pretty much asks people to cool down on the posting.
First, I'm male and I use he/him pronouns. My avatar is Nicola Sturgeon, because she's perfect.
Second, I want to emphasize that I have a town read on Zack too. I think it was Visor who suggested that me and Zack were v/v arguing, and I'm all but convinced that that's the case. Our argument, regrettably, had too much to do with tunneling and snappiness
Third, I'm glad to see some more movement on Al Sips. Townie Al Sips is usually a lot more involved than this (as an example, this recent game where Al Sips was town and the second highest poster). There is the possibility that he's overwhelmed with the amount of content, but it seems increasingly likely to me that he's trying to blend in.
You know 100% factually your role. Let us assume you are town. You are saying you would rather lynch someone who is 100% confirmed to you as town, than someone else, who unless they are your mason, you have no way of knowing are town on day 1. The odds of you dieing and being scum would be 0. The odds of him being scum are greater than 0.
Well, think about it this way. If we lynch Sips and he's scum, we're one wolf down and we have a little bit of information based off of who's pressuring and why. People have said I'm scummy. If I'm killed, yes, one town down as opposed to one scum, but it resolves one giant question mark, you can look at who was town and scumreading me, what I said, how people reacted, how votes changed and why. As a fellow townie I'd prefer the latter as far as being able to analyze and come up with a better feel for the whole scum team. ymmv
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