Aspiring Rapper's MAFIA- Game Thread

[Cuthillius]

Killing Sips will probably not leave us with much of any clues of who his fellow scum would be if he is. And it's even more of a wasted lynch if he's town.

 

[Cuthillius]

Yeah, what about no?

You're gunning incredibly hard for my right now, I can't really understand why.

Explain your vote for me, then.

Sushi has a lot of potential as an asset if he's left alive and town. Edse is a cunning player, but he's not going to be giving the same amount of information alive as an early investment. That makes him a fine lynch for data because there's less utility sacrifice early on if we're wrong.

Yes, but compare it to Sips. If he's town--and I really don't see why he couldn't be per se, the evidence is very weak-- what do we gain from the lynch, particularly when most players are ducking in, leaving a vote, and exiting again right away? If someone like Edse, Mat, Sushi, or even I is lynched, there's more info regardless of alignment.

How do you know where most people are looking? Maybe I'm mistaken, but the town isn't really a mob mentality now. It's more like a dozen overlapping dinner parties.

I'm watching where the votes go and who's getting mentioned.

 

[Cass_]

Also, whoops, forgot to refresh the page before I posted. There's something else I want to speak on.



FTR I very often make this kind of statement (i.e. generalities about town strategy) when I'm a wolf. Easier to fake being helpful with this kind of stuff than it is with reads. Don't know if that's alignment indicative for Cass or not, but it's something to keep in mind.

Fair enough, though FTR that post was more about pushing Legato to explain his reads/WTL than it was about giving generalities about town strategy. He drew my attention in an earlier post, I ISO'd him and wasn't a fan of him sheeping Murska onto Choxorn (questioned that in the post before the one you're quoting), and then he mentioned he'd be willing to switch to Jarema for 'reasons' that he declined to give for a reason I found suspicious. I want his thoughts explained.

I don't understand why one of LL/Zack has to be scum. It's more likely landlubber than Zack, but as visor said, I can see town and town tunneling going on here.

What does this mean? Why King Morgan?


Question.... Why is Visor still on the top of your list, and why aren't you willing to vote Arakhor atm, even if he's on your top three scum list?

Murska's actually been slightly town for me, but there are a few things about vote timing, lynch preference, and vote reasoning that I don't quite like.


Why not yet? Why wait? What are your scum reads? Even better, could you give a want to lynch list for today?

Soooo. Do you want to lynch edse today, or are you just trying to redirect attention from you?

I really like this post.

1. Okay, what's your WTL for today?

2. Very mixed, I'll address all of my reads in a later post, but right now I want to talk about you, Cass.

Spoiler :

1)Your tone seems very friendly. You're posting like you're lock town (as I recall from every game I've been wolf in and you've been town in, which is every game that we've played together...).

2)But... There's something I'm wary about. I usually doubt that you're town when you actually are. The way you phrase things and the way you interact with other people -- I look at them and I go... Wow, that's really scummy. But you balance that with hunting and paranoia.

3)Your first few posts here were calmer than I've ever seen. That's not a good sign. Your tone is amazing. Your interactions have nothing questionable except for that opening joke with Visor, who I'm now convinced is town. The way you've been giving your reads and leans create a world in which you can hide behind them, and not give something super precise and clear. For instance, in your last town game, you stated your reads list... A lot. You stated your WTL list.... A lot.

Another minor thing to consider, but it may be a major tell. We'll see post game.

4)Where are your emoticons? Town Cass always uses emoticons. Too many, iirc. Can't even quote them without breaking Dragonmount. You also seem to use them on PerC. This site has no lack of emoticons. This may seem super nitpicky, but I am bothered that you seem more controlled with your thought process here, and have been doing a lot less buddying, which is a common practice for you as town.

I think that you're scum, Cass. Something's wrong, and whatever you say doesn't fix it.

1. Good question. I'm still working on the answer. Gun to head right now I'm concerned about possible scum in Visor, Cuth, You, Sooh/Lassie and maybe Legato, Pouter, Xym, Al Sips, Kingmorgan. I'm waiting on replies and will need to re-read/actually read a lot of players who have escaped my attention before I'm comfortable stating a WTL. This shouldn't surprise you, knowing how I struggle to turn possibilities into actual decisions as Town.

Re the rest - I am Town Concluding I'm Scum and that nothing can 'fix' it is pretty scummy in itself here. Feels like pushing dirt. Continued FoS/lol at you if it doesn't change as the game goes on. Do you actually want me to reply to these points?

WIFOM

Defending of Cass, multiple examples in the thread. PIS. My thoughts similar to Glossy's:

Multiple cases made on multiple people, but yet this post:

Refusing to actually attempt to lynch people until you know the thoughts of multiple people first. Wanting to follow consenus, not wanting to go out on a limb yourself. So you can defend with 'I wasn't the only one who found him scummy and wanting to lynch him'. Further PIS

Also very strong OMGUS. I haven't even been voted (so far), and edse has suspicion, but is unlikely to be lynched today without someone championing it. Both however have voted for you.

I'm extremely interested in why Cuth has objections to Al Sips as a lynch. Made almost no posts about him (IIRC), but he is one of the main lynch candidates right now, and going up. Alternative bandwagon to defend scum buddy? If Cuth flips, Al Sips is my #1 suspect.

Has some evidence that Glossy will support his lynch (not concrete, but that Glossy could be persuaded). Only after this does he go for it.

Meta read on him also.

Shorter version: WIFOM, PIS, OMGUS, and not starting an attempt to lynch someone without having other people's views on the candidate first. Gut feeling, and very strong gut feeling on Al Sips/Cuth being scum team. If Cuth flips, will be unwilling to not vote for Al Sips.

I agree with pretty much all of these points on Cuth.

I am defending Cass because last game I played with her nobody else had much experience with her and she got lynched later on as a PR after I'd died, while I could pretty strongly clear her based on playing completely differently but hadn't mentioned it. I will note that Mat/Cass is possible based off this.

that post was making sure glossy did not agree strongly with an edse lynch

how is that OMGUS? i agree my main justification for voting him is that he voted me, but not because of that. because of the way he said it and presented it. it's horrible

I feel like most of the justification on him is "mostly inactive, and that's a little funny". He's not anywhere near the scummiest of people.

That's the opposite of what I was doing. I'm proposing a lynch that might be more popular than my main target, but if my strongest scumread was actually okay with the lynch then I would stay miles away from it right now.

It's not a very good meta read, because she hasn't even said why it's similar; and it isn't at all.

I'm not sure what "PIS" is, but I'm not polling to see if it's a viable lynch, but rather to try and convince other people that I am correct. Which is the point.

Flips pending, I don't hate this response. I like that he's not jumping on Al Sips just because of pressure, but Al Sips is way out of his last Town range IMO and I don't see why Cuth would be that upset about Al Sips as an option to vote, at least for now.

I'm concerned that he thinks edse is a good lynch based on OMGUS and play that IMO is very similar to Scummy-Town-edse from the last game I know of that all three of us played. I do feel like he was polling rather than 'convincing other people he is correct' but I can see the bold coming from a Towny mindset.

 

[Jarrema]

Jarema is to me the iconic town slacker. When he's town he has a tendency to show up promptly twice a day and gives you nothing to go on. Eh, here's a vote, maybe a comment. Kay thanks see ya. He's not JTH (or Phantom from the Playground) unreadable, but he's clearly not here to give you consideration just for a convenient read. Here he looks like he's struggling to put in an effort. That's a bit of scum tell for him at times. But, the other explanation is he's floundering in the flood of posts.

ehh.

I keep promising myself, that I will get better in this regard. Therefore, day one, I try harder
Wait to see my activity after 3 days...
(tbh, I typically put a little bit more energy into not-in-thread discussions, trying to contact with few players)

 

[Jarrema]

and, as reading Landlubber's post reminded me, I am a male too.

Not so evident from my name, and I dont feel bad if someone refers to me as a female, but the truth is here.

 

[Cass_]

Ok. It's a mess, but here's where I'm at on my maybe WTL

Cuth/Visor
I can't figure these two out. The interaction has been fairly intense afaict and for all it's amounted to nothing this far, it's a pretty massive distance if scum-scum. I don't know who's more likely out of the two and I'm not confident calling either of them Town right now.

Both have had posts I've read as Town but have done things I thought were particularly possi-Scum. In the case of Cuth the scum lean is mostly a frequent defence of me, which could be buddying, and the push on Edse, which may be opportunistic and Visor I already covered with prolonged 'I'm Scummy/dragging me into the 'we're on a scum team' thing out of the blue and the 'don't want to put in effort' vibe followed by the switch under pressure. He looks fairly Towny now, but has missed answering some questions, particularly wrt Cuth, and that worries me.

GlossySushi
Is looking more Towny to me in her recent posts (liking her line of thought/agreeing with a lot of what she's said in the last couple of pages, particularly #764, #766, #769, #771, #772, #791) but the reasons I stated before still stand WRT her early game: the questioning feeling like it was more about the FoS than the results and the potential for a lack of interest in details. I have to admit that her FoSing people is a different approach to her previous game and could indicate that she's Town, BUT she said she survived as deep wolf there by mimicking her Town meta, and she's probably at a point in the game where she'd have to change things up. Her continued FoS at me feels fake - she's an adept personality reader and is good at reading me Town. I haven't had a chance to look at the Town games she linked to compare, and even though I don't trust her I'm probably not voting her today short of a decider settling between her and someone more likely Town.

Sooh
Her absence/general vagueness has bothered me, though I liked her reads post and agreed with the point she made about Lassie and Glossysushi in #673.

Lassie
This is mostly little things and the fact I don't get the logic behind continuing the confusion with the Lassie/Alette thing and I still don't get the utility of seeing if others would figure it out. Some of the recent posts WRT Cuth, Sushi and Visor may concern me more if any of those three flip Scum.

Legato
His 'do I know you?' post plus the cop-out vote and dodging out of reasons for his timely 'willing to switch to Jarema' bother me. Waiting on replies.

Pouter
This is really light and mostly based on early gut feels. I didn't like intro post/vote on Lassie after several others were on a train with no explanation, and IIRC he's made two slight pushes at me that I didn't like - once after I got dragged into Visor/Newyn's early joke about being outright scum and the slight push/dish of dirt on me after I pushed Legato to provide his reasons where it was sus for him to leave them out. This may be OMGUS on reasonable pushes. I haven't ISO'd and can't recall much of his interaction in the rest of the thread.

Kingmorgan
I don't yet follow his progression on his WTL and I don't trust/understand his stance on Visor - initially poor/lack of demonstrated reasoning and then recently a quick offer to drop him out of scum leans - from the top spot. Waiting on replies.

Edse
I read Edse scummy for low posting, consensusy/opportunistic votes and wouldn't put that alignment past him here even though last time he was Town. Given that he's possibly an easy mislynch and his train is being driven by Cuth, I'm hoping to see more from him here before he becomes the lynch either way.

Al Sips
His absence bothers me and is a strong contrast to the Town play I've seen of his. Like Edse, I'm slightly concerned that he's possibly easy mislynch and I want to see more here.

 

[Cuthillius]

Is an OMGUS an OMGUS if it's valid? If so, is applying the label misrepresenting what it is?

I'm not voting him because he voted me. Per se. I'm voting him because of the post where he voted me.

Consensus among those who have played more with you seem to be that you're scummy.

Legato, who's played with me many times, insists that I'm almost never scum here.

Visor, who I've played with... once in a turbo, apart from the anonymous game where I got mislynched D1 and he was scum, is reading me scum.

Sushi, who I've played with twice, again in a turbo, and in one of these she was a scum.

Pouter's played with me more than either of the last two, and reads me town. Granted, this was after edse's post.

 

[Zack]

Looking at the who's posted list, all the lowest-posting players are generally low-posting people, with the exception of Al Sipsclar. That said, the only game I know of where he was scum (Demon council) he didn't lurk and he wasn't low-content. It's uncharacteristic of him in either alignment.

 

[Cuthillius]

Heh, looking at the Snake Cult game I found this post by Cass.

 

[Zack]

Is an OMGUS an OMGUS if it's valid? If so, is applying the label misrepresenting what it is?

If it's valid then it's by definition not an omgus.

 

[Cuthillius]

Cass, a few posts of yours ago you were basically calling Legato lock town for a certain post. Are you taking that back?

 

[Cuthillius]

If it's valid then it's by definition not an omgus.

Then why do you think the term is being applied?

 

[Zack]

idk people use terms erroneously all the time

though considering you literally said "my main justification for voting him is that he voted me" that sounds like an omgus that you're trying to retroactively justify as something more

 

[Zack]

If it's valid then it's by definition not an omgus.

I should clarify that the reasoning is what makes a vote an OMGUS, not the target's alignment. You can omgus a scumbag.

 

[Cuthillius]

i agree my main justification for voting him is that he voted me, but not because of that. because of the way he said it and presented it.

are you talking about this?

 

[Zack]

are you talking about this?

Yes obviously.

I don't really care if you OMGUSed or not, because that was outdated as a scumtell three years ago and I'm not going to get into a dumb semantics argument about whether or not you OMGUSed because it doesn't matter. Townies make spiteful lazy votes all the damn time, it's not a particularly scummy thing to do (bad? yes, scummy? not really). If anything mafia tend to avoid antagonizing people, especially ones voting for them.

 

[Cass_]

/snip

Hmm. You might have one of those voices. Your style is very recognizable to me. It stands out in relief to the thread. It reminds me of two people I knew when I went under the handle 'Rift'.

See below.


1) Jarema is to me the iconic town slacker. When he's town he has a tendency to show up promptly twice a day and gives you nothing to go on. Eh, here's a vote, maybe a comment. Kay thanks see ya. He's not JTH (or Phantom from the Playground) unreadable, but he's clearly not here to give you consideration just for a convenient read. Here he looks like he's struggling to put in an effort. That's a bit of scum tell for him at times. But, the other explanation is he's floundering in the flood of posts.

2) I disagree a bit on leaving things out. Sometimes information abnegation is a town tool, it's just a precise one you have to think about. Same as lying. Same as voting for yourself, which I've done thrice, two of which to good effect. It's why Lassie's concessional argument rubs me wrong. My third game as town I saw Pizza come in and destroy 3 major preconceptions of how the game is played. It's influenced me in mafia ever since.


3) Regarding Murska: Apparently I combined two distinct posts in my mind when arrived at this conclusion. <_<;

Murska's town list resonated with me, especially as the other notable person in the thread who was against Cuth being lynched. I also am just biased against lynching Sushi now regardless of my read. Admittedly not much to go along. I'm not particularly inclined to seeing Visor go yet though. There's too many assumptions I see being made, and my read on Visor as a general player is a bit different, There's a bit of good tactics but perhaps not ideal strategy going along with his early death. This is not something I will elaborate on, as it.

I will admit though, Visor is acting very different. I'm just not sure what it means.


4) Earlier he said this, which conflated in my mind to be a more ringing endorsement of Choxorn's need to die. Need here being, eh, that sounds decent for day 1. Grah, I have to figure out someone new to change to.

*I make a general exception to people who simply aren't compositionally inclined, atypical neurology and the like, as they can be otherwise insightful. But anyone else brooks no such consideration.

In a nutshell, I like these responses. There's some fluff but I essentially agree with all that's been posted in the responses (and the rest of the post) and can mostly follow the logic given. Lean goes back toward Town for now.

@ Legato

Spoiler :

Numbered above and below for reference.

1. The bold is exactly how I read/the conclusion I came to for Jarema as Town in the one game I've played with him. I haven't seen him scum so can't compare, but ty for the reasoning. I'll keep it in mind when I get to reading through his stuff.

2. This is fluff at heart but I agree on abnegation, lying, self-voting etc as Town tools at times. In most cases though, I think explaining where you're coming from is more beneficial down the track. Side note - I find it amusing you should mention Pizza destroying preconceptions here - I posted the way I did in the post you're replying to because last game he destroyed a preconception I had that always explaining/encouraging good Town play is more easily/likely to come from Scum

3. I essentially agree and therefore can understand your take on Cuth, Sushi and Visor.
a) Where are you at on Cuth now? What makes/made you read him Town? I'm particularly interested because the main things I'm finding scummy about him this game is his defence of me (which is equally possible as Town and Scum) and his interactions with Visor (who I'm wary of but now looks Town).
b) Why are you biased against lynching Sushi?
c) I can't understand the bolded - weird/typo'd sentence structure. Not too worried but it would be nice if you could finish off the second one in particular.

4. Do you have thoughts on Murska atm/What do you make of the rest of his posts?
FWIW I can somewhat understand the conflation but thought the reasoning Murska provided with his vote was obviously 'eh' from the start. Want to check I'm understanding correctly because I'm tired and 'Need here being'/the bold is unclear/confuses me: you're saying you thought Murska was confident in his vote and pushing for Choxorn to be lynched, but now you read it differently/find the reasoning lacking and plan to move your vote?

 

[Murska]

If I can interject, my vote for Choxorn was because he felt like the most scummy person in the game at the time. I arrived at this conclusion with the idea that the post flood by Cuth, Visor and Sushi, none of whom I want to lynch yet because they are actively generating content (though I find Visor-scum the most likely out of the three and Sushi-scum the least likely), would lead to a number of bad guys to try and hide behind low activity while still showing signs of following the game and trying to distance themselves from the main debate.

I skimmed a bunch of people in isolation, choosing from those who had voted, weren't voting for Visor or Cuth and had posted only a little. Choxorn felt the worst out of all those.

Choxorn is the one I would lynch now if I had the choice. However, since there's no impetus in that direction right now, and specifically I understand my conclusions aren't very solid yet, I've moved my vote to Sips on the basis that he was also one of the suspicious-looking people and several others seem to agree on that.

Though if he were a wolf lying low, after pressure started mounting on him I feel he'd try to say something. But he might just be away at the moment.

 

[KingMorgan]

UnVote:Visorslash he has flipped flopped to town on my list, I have been lazy in not unvoting him, I am still suspicious of his conduct in the early part of the day and he should be watched closely, but I see a town player in his recent posts.

My beef about Arakhor it that he is a player I would expect to have voted using in thread reads, rolling a die seems a cop out and does not fit with what I expect from Town Arakhor, please do not mistake me calling him out for his vote - it is the method that does not ring true to me. It screams Wolf-Arakhor Perhaps i'm getting excited over nothing, but there should be enough info around and enough content to get a read on someone.

@Cass, my reasoning for Landlubber, started with the quotes below. Looking back over Zacks accusation of LL over reacting to a single vote and then the back and forth got my interest

No one was implying that you were stupid. We're saying that this D1 is a lot more meaningful than you seem to be giving it credit for...

I'm interested to know who the "We're" are, and if this phase is so important then perhaps it is worth a wolf defending his rep, the way this is phased makes me think LL has been having private conversations discussing game progress.

There are a few reasons why my vote on Al Sips doesn't have as much argument behind it. First, he's barely posted. Second, my vote is in large part a pressure vote. Third, a lot of the cases on the more complicated players, like sushi, have already been discussed. I chose to go for an alternative instead of beating a dead horse.

This reasoning could be read as; excuse my vote; hes a lurker, pressure him!!!, cast aspersions on potential town leader, i don't want my voting record to be informative in the future.
Overall I get the impression LL wants to blend in, but feels this is an important phase and he must be seen to be town-like.

Vote: Landlubber

 

[Cuthillius]

I'm interested to know who the "We're" are, and if this phase is so important then perhaps it is worth a wolf defending his rep, the way this is phased makes me think LL has been having private conversations discussing game progress.

We feel like this tell is almost never ever valid.