At Least 120 Dead in Paris Attacks
- Thread starter GoodEnoughForMe
- Start date
I've been thinking for a while now that the idea of letting in as many refugees as can come is a pretty bad idea regardless of the humanitarian crises in their countries of origin. One of the obvious reasons for this is that right-wing politicians will be empowered by any social problems that happen as European countries try to integrate a large number of poorer people, from dysfunctional countries, the majority of whom have rather illiberal beliefs and values. The concerns the native populations have about this are legitimate, and if there is a perception that the mainstream parties are not taking the majority of the population seriously and are allowing the country to deteriorate, this could lead to a very dangerous situation.
If I had to make a totally uninformed guess, I'd expect the attackers were Muslims who had been residing in France for some time, and are not part of the new wave of refugees. Even if this is true, it clearly won't turn out to be very important in terms of the popular response to this and any subsequent attacks that occur elsewhere in Europe.
As for bringing politics into this, I think that while people should hold off on the usual political mudslinging, we should definitely think of the political consequences of this attack. The political response is always the most important part of any terrorist attack. Terrorist attacks themselves are always tragic in the same way that any senseless deaths are tragic, but the only thing that has significant long-term consequences is how the attacked country responds.
If I had to make a totally uninformed guess, I'd expect the attackers were Muslims who had been residing in France for some time, and are not part of the new wave of refugees. Even if this is true, it clearly won't turn out to be very important in terms of the popular response to this and any subsequent attacks that occur elsewhere in Europe.
As for bringing politics into this, I think that while people should hold off on the usual political mudslinging, we should definitely think of the political consequences of this attack. The political response is always the most important part of any terrorist attack. Terrorist attacks themselves are always tragic in the same way that any senseless deaths are tragic, but the only thing that has significant long-term consequences is how the attacked country responds.
Bugfatty300
Buddha Squirrel
Can someone from France comment on those shiny space blankets covering the people? I got myself one as a souvenir from NASA store at the Kennedy Space Center. Is what I see is a space blanket and is it a standard item for French law enforcement?
They're survival blankets. They keep you warm. Emergency personnel often carry these.
Am sorry but my post was meant in sarcasm, that's why I included 911, Blair and Bush weren't hand in hand when that happened.
JUst goes to show that Sarcasm and Jokes aren't my forte'.
Bummer.
Akka
Moody old mage.
They just look like thermal-insulating covers.
JohnRM
Don't make me destroy you
That this some great acting. Moral outrage doesn't quite fit your character, though. I can see quite readily through it.
I am going to assume that you have nothing useful to say, at this point and we can settle on agreeing that you do not wish to prevent further attacks of the kind that we have seen in Paris this night in favor of continued importation of desperate individuals with an ideology that clearly lends itself to approving of those who strap on bombs and carry machine guns to kill Frenchmen.
If I was calling out anything, it was the asking to not mix in politics in this thread right before diving right into claiming political bona fides. If you can find examples of left wingers pulling off that combo in a single post, I am verily united unto you in condemning such hypocrisy with extreme prejudice.
JohnRM
Don't make me destroy you
My apologies. You can see how one could easily be mistaken, particularly in the political climate that we currently live in and especially in this forum.
Very true.
JohnRM
Don't make me destroy you
I had very little to say that was political. The idea of restricting immigration itself is apolitical. It is a very real and very justified solution to the current problem. The only moment at which I mentioned anything politically related was the point in which I attempted to preempt the right-winger labeling, which is again, perfectly justified.
Nevertheless, while I find it flattering that you assume that I was talking to or about you or anyone here; I wasn't. What we do here in this forum has no bearing on what happens on the streets of Paris or in the Middle East. The fact of the matter is that I was talking about the leaders of our respective countries. I merely used those bickering in this forum as an example of what our leaders cannot afford to do. It is they that need not point the finger and blame one another for policy failures.
How important do you think we are this process? Not very. There is only the illusion of democracy in the West. You are not important and neither am I. We can hold hands and sing Kumbaya or we can wring each others' necks. It won't make any difference.
This being a Red Diamond thread, I think we have gone far enough in this exchange. I'll withhold further fire in this particular venue.
JohnRM
Don't make me destroy you
That is the second thing that we can agree on tonight.
Zkribbler
Deity
What I find most frightening in these attacks is their echoing of the 1968 Tet Offensive.
General Westmoreland had just reported how well we were doing in the war, how the people of South Vietnam loved us, how the communists were on the ropes, and how birdies were singing and bunnies were dancing. Then on Tet, nationwide surprise attacks were launched against more than 100 cities and town. They were foredoomed attacks. The Viet Cong were effectively destroyed and subsequently, North Vietnamese regulars carried on the war.
But the fact that the communist could carry out these scores of sneak attacks, without one word of them leaking out, showed the Vietnamese people were not on our side.
There was a sea change in the American people, from being pro-war to anti-war.
Although these attacks are not on the scale of the Tet Offensive, the fact that so many attacks could be carried out without any pre-attack leaks alerting the authorities, is very troubling.
General Westmoreland had just reported how well we were doing in the war, how the people of South Vietnam loved us, how the communists were on the ropes, and how birdies were singing and bunnies were dancing. Then on Tet, nationwide surprise attacks were launched against more than 100 cities and town. They were foredoomed attacks. The Viet Cong were effectively destroyed and subsequently, North Vietnamese regulars carried on the war.
But the fact that the communist could carry out these scores of sneak attacks, without one word of them leaking out, showed the Vietnamese people were not on our side.
There was a sea change in the American people, from being pro-war to anti-war.Although these attacks are not on the scale of the Tet Offensive, the fact that so many attacks could be carried out without any pre-attack leaks alerting the authorities, is very troubling.
Ice_Tyrant
Prince
This is nonsense. Islamic extremism wasn't born out of nowhere. The seeds for an extremists and violent understanding of Islam were planted only in the last what 60 or something years. If what you are saying is true then it makes no sense that Islam ever thrived as a culture for the other odd 1300 years or so, since I'd guess according to you they don't do anything but think about murdering infidels.
Does this attack even have anything to do with all the refugees that have been coming into Europe? Other than it's consequences for them I suppose..
Zkribbler
Deity
JohnRM
Don't make me destroy you
What I find most frightening in these attacks is their echoing of the 1968 Tet Offensive.
General Westmoreland had just reported how well we were doing in the war, how the people of South Vietnam loved us, how the communists were on the ropes, and how birdies were singing and bunnies were dancing. Then on Tet, nationwide surprise attacks were launched against more than 100 cities and town. They were foredoomed attacks. The Viet Cong were effectively destroyed and subsequently, North Vietnamese regulars carried on the war.
But the fact that the communist could carry out these scores of sneak attacks, without one word of them leaking out, showed the Vietnamese people were not on our side.
Although these attacks are not on the scale of the Tet Offensive, the fact that so many attacks could be carried out without any pre-attack leaks alerting the authorities, is very troubling.
I would have never expected Vietnam to come up in a discussion about terrorist attacks in Paris. I suppose that I should expect anything on this board.
You make an interesting point, however, and what I take away from it is the very correct inference that prior to this terrorist attack, we had no idea how serious the problem of radical Islamic infiltration was in western countries; this is likely just the beginning and not the end of such attacks, if we continue business as usual; and finally, that we cannot continue with business as usual and that the France (at least) has irrevocably changed.
After the Hebdo attacks an ISIS publication described the "extinction of the grey zone" of co-existance and dividing the world into two clear black and white camps. They would thrive in such a world.
Worth remembering what they actually want to achieve. Especially as they attack progressive and multicultural targets in the heart of Paris.
Worth remembering what they actually want to achieve. Especially as they attack progressive and multicultural targets in the heart of Paris.
chijohnaok
King
True. I was speaking more from the perspective of French leaders than for the collection of characters here.
JohnRM
Don't make me destroy you
While I respect your good intentions, I can't help but point out the fact that if you choose to continue accepting of masses of Muslims into western countries, events such as these will certainly result from it. Sometimes, there is no good answer to a problem. There is just the one that is the least unappealing. As I said before, I sympathize with the plight of refugees, but I would not trade 158 Frenchmen or any westerners for the lot of them.
sophie
Break My Heart
Why is it whenever someone says "I [really] x, but y..." the y always ends up rendering the x completely disingenuous?
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