AW Shucks

[Manco Capac]

I think the strat. is to play defensive until ready and then move those Q to tell Monty: 'Bring it on!'
Given the lack of copper, our defense army will consist of axes and Q. I think the MC route wasn't really good. It is perhaps going all for Construction and then mop Monty with cats.

 

[astre]

I tried the toy with monty a little. I couldn't stole a worker because I didn't played very well for that but at least i succeed to starve him at least^^. He is very dependant of his maize farms

A galley on the other side of the continent would be nice also.

I don't really like your matchu pichu site. I would stop with your tihuanacu site only and go south instead for santiago.

 

[vanatteveldt]

(I'm assuming that Machu Picchu is the copper site, no civ here.)

The copper site is the only metal until we get to the iron in the middle of the Brasilian jungle. Since fighting axes and warriors with Q's only is very annoying, I think it is an essential city to build. With 8h at size 2 and no infra needed it is also a city that will contribute quickly.

@tachy: interesting, I would never have considered attacking monty until much later. Good (ab)use of the blocked path trick, I thought they had got rid of that in an update, but I guess not.

Securing middle america for us sounds like a good plan. It has decent city sites, allows for a canal without placing Venezuela in a suboptimal location, and apparently pays itself back in captured workers (which we will need in great numbers, esp with a Northern play).

 

[pigswill]

The other option to consider is the southern gambit. Ignore north, expand south via Santiago>Argentina and pick on Monte later. Obviously it eliminates worker stealing. It would depend on whether Monte discovers us before he declares on America. America does tend to send an exploring WB out early but I'm not sure that Monte does the same.

 

[astre]

machu pichu is a city from tachy save. It is roughly in venezuela.

I'm really thinking of a double expension: north and soulth at the same time but not with the same goal.
north is to weaken monty. 2 cities are necessary for that. one in colombia (gold) and one in central america (shock point+ silver)
south is to colonize south america with very cheap settlers / workers.

whatever i see this game, it is:
- without any wonder (except oracle maybe for Code of law)
- all about using gold and silver to get economy going
- fast expension
- eventually play with monty ^^

 

[Manco Capac]

The other option to consider is the southern gambit. Ignore north, expand south via Santiago>Argentina and pick on Monte later. Obviously it eliminates worker stealing. It would depend on whether Monte discovers us before he declares on America. America does tend to send an exploring WB out early but I'm not sure that Monte does the same.

Monty cannot do that because he starts inland while Roosevelt starts coastal and has fishing.

 

[Manco Capac]

@tachy: interesting, I would never have considered attacking monty until much later. Good (ab)use of the blocked path trick, I thought they had got rid of that in an update, but I guess not.

In fact, I thought the normal AI (meaning non-barb that spawns) can pass through according to DanF. Anyways, my experience showed me if I block small passages, the stack will make big U turns because the itinerary was calculated that way.

I shall try to move the Q's to see.

EDIT: Good lord, the AI is really that asinine.

Anyways, think about it: Monty with such an army is gonna stall economically and then we are going to be first to Construction. I do think consruction asap is a good move. Bring 10 cats and Monty will die. BTW, the Oracle went awfully late for some reason.

I don't really like your matchu pichu site. I would stop with your tihuanacu site only and go south instead for santiago.

Reasons?

 

[vanatteveldt]

It would depend on whether Monte discovers us before he declares on America.

Monty will discover us pretty soon by settling is middle america.

Re oracle: oracle and Monty are about the only ways we will get a religion. So, if Monty does not get an early religion, it might be worth it to oracle CoL for the religion if nothing else. The later religions will go before we get a chance, and religion is quite nice in AW since there are no diplo considerations.

I would agree with colonizing the south as soon as the two northern cities are up and running, since the south is the only part of South America that will be productive quickly, and from there we can push our borders north and south.

I guess that makes city order: Venezuela, Yucatan, (copper?) southern Chile, Montevideo
Tech is mining - fishing - sailing - bw -> oracle?
build is worker -> Q* -> galley -> settler -> Q* -> worker -> settler

?

 

[astre]

I don't really like your matchu pichu site. I would stop with your tihuanacu site only and go south instead for santiago.

Reasons?

forget it
my first idea was that it was not a priority city but it is in fact the best spot to use a settleR made in colombia.

i did play my 100 turn.
play cat and mouse (as we say in french) with monty with 2-3 queshua on his farms and co. The result is that his cap is not running very well .
I succeed to capture one city and 2 worker (quite late).the plan north and south is however quite hard to settle and i had to try several timings to do it with one lone boat.

But i like the result.
montevideo will be settle very late but well, it will be done soon

about oracle and tech.
I'm afraid we can't do it.
we need to many tech to survive here.
we need IW, road, hunting. If we want to go to kill Monty we need construction (and the path pottery, writting, mathematics wich is not the worst path ever.)

I'm to try the safe side of no gambit, pure strenght

 

[vanatteveldt]

Some random remarks:

- Monty founded Judaism so at least we will have a religion without oracle+CoL

- Texcoc should whip the monument and probably build a terrace

- Ollantayambo (sp) could probably skip the monument and just build a terrace. I think that with the whip overflow it can probably 1 pop whip it (in general I prefer building terrace over monument, it's only 30 extra hammers, gives more culture, and is actually a great building. Imho monuments should only be built if culture is needed asap.

- Machu Picchu should probably build axemen after this Q. One or two axemen help a lot more in cleaning out barbs than Qs...

- It might be good to park a Q on the southern part (two tiles N from the southernmost tile) to make sure that no barbs come from there.

 

[astre]

Oups, I was not clear ^^
it is not the official SG (I would never make a set of 100 turns ) and the master plan is not set yet IMHO.
it is, like tachy did, a try of what is possible.

Of cource, if you all want to start from here, it can be discussed.

 

[vanatteveldt]

I already thought it was a long turnset. What can I say, it is half past ten and I am tired

I will also play a 100 turn, I think that oracle should be possible but you might be right.

 

[vanatteveldt]

Hmm played something like 60 turns, certainly not happy yet. Build a galley and 6 Q's and sailed north while building settler-settler. Captured Texcoco but capital was full of archers and no worker in sight. Was careless with archers and allowed Monty to kill most of them.

I agree in hindsight that oracle is very difficult to combine with getting a useful amount of Q's up in Mexico and starting the expansion.

 

[Manco Capac]

Workers will stumble by once you destroy deer camp or corn farm. Then go back to the boat and I assure you workers will come by repetitively.

In my attempt, my mistake was to fortify on that jungle hill, which is within Tenochtitlan BFC. It incurs lots of unit whipping, thus the huge deal of units.

@astre

Comment as-tu fais pour juguler à un tel Moctezuma? Trois archers; c'est ridicule!

===================================

People, if religion doesn't come by with CoL, why not bulb Philo.
I don't think it is needed to expand that fast if primary goal is to kill Monty; we have to get Construction asap.
I'm not completely bought about the southern city...albeit its a nice spot.

Where's Rolo? I've seen him yesterday. He must have an opinion.

====================================

The general strategy is quite simple to me: kill our neighbours and I assure you victory is reached by that point. Construction will help greatly. And if people hasn't noticed, Roosy is in great troubles compared to Monty; most of his cities are hammer-less. I took a peek and it was unbelievable how much whips he used. Yep, looks like he whips units too. My bad for misinformation in that regard.

 

[pigswill]

At some point we should probably get the game started.

Initial issues will be 2W or 2S and what to research after mining (fish>sail or BW).

I was initially keen on 2S but even with the lake we only get to irrigate 1 corn after CS. I think 2W gets us more starting hammers/food which will shave a turn or two off early builds.

If we're going to harass Monte early then early sailing is probably best, if we want to get a city built first then possibly BW.

 

[r_rolo1]

My opinion ? Well, if we can beat Monty early, we have a far bigger chance of winning this. I'm all for trying And Q rushing Monty is a venerated and ancient way of starting a E18 game with the Inca

 

[astre]

@astre

Comment as-tu fais pour juguler à un tel Moctezuma? Trois archers; c'est ridicule!

translation:
how did you make Monty so low, 3 archer is so small

reply:
i nerf his cap by destroying his farms with Q and sitting on forrest hills.
doing that he is limited to unimprove tiles (aka craps in monty cap) and can't produce that mutch.
I didn't atack him in fact, just nerf his production and population.

as a matter of fact monty have mutch more units but they are in the north and he keep them moving.
I played a bit more and he at least succed to fnd iron.

but this nerf has a failure inside: I was never in position to take his cap.
It is not possible to rush monty without cats, even with axes
his none hill cities however, it is not the same thing...


I tought again about this city in venezuela. I built it also but afterward, i don't think it is a good idea.
We need to keep our city number not too high and so only build necessary city.
City in venezuela have no gold/silver, it is not a starting position to colonize a new area: it is not needed that early.
furthermore, it harder to defend.



Anyway, venerated team leader propose to begin the whole thing.
That might be a good idea

my PPP:
settle 2W.
worker Queshua x2, boat, settler, Q.

boat buisness:
put 2 Q on central america and then come back for settler.

worker buisness:
farm, mine, farm, mine/roads (gold in needed ASAP)

techs:
mining, fishing, sailing, road, bronze working, IW.

why sailing and road before BW?
because of health cap of 2 in starting location
and i propose to whip only for settler anyway.

I will stop as soon there is a decision to take. most probably: when the settler is built.

Do our flying dragon want to prepare the starting save or do I do it?

 

[nocho]

Nice testing going on. If the Qrush is feasible, and it looks like it does, then it makes sense to do so. Crippling Monty early must be the way to go and if rolo says it's the arcane way of playing the Incas, let's indeed do so, more so in AW.

 

[vanatteveldt]

+1 Quechua rush

Let's get the game started. Opening is well hammered out now, I think. Have we agreed on Cuzco 2W for short term gain?

With how many Q's did you guys start? I felt 6 are needed, using one galley to ferry them to Panama and group there before going north

 

[astre]

will wait more returns on PPP before beginning the set.

btw, quershua are safe to travel in monty land until he get iron...
espetially when settled on forested hill ^^
2 Q are enought to bother him a lot