Barbie Movie Discussion (Spoilers)

[Samson]

Uta basically a feminist movie targeted at women. Also mocks feminism along with everything else.

My main takeaway extremism vad make world better but it will take time. Ymmv.

So it is woke to have a female protagonist? And it is also woke to parody that?

 

[Zardnaar]

So it is woke to have a female protagonist? And it is also woke to parody that?

I don't think it's woke giving a female protagonist. Or black or whatever.

Pushing that along with various other factors espicially at the expense of quality may be.

You'll know it when you see it.

 

[choxorn]

There's no race-swapping going on (much less gender-swapping of course) in Barbie.

You could argue that every alternate version of stererotypical Barbie is a something-swap of the OG Barbie (sometimes multiple swaps) which would mean the movie has lots of race-swapped Barbies (and of course Mattel has for decades released Barbies in a wide range of racial appearances, since they released there was money to be made by doing that), and, when you get down to it, Ken is basically just gender-swapped Barbie, right?

 

[Zardnaar]

You could argue that every alternate version of stererotypical Barbie is a something-swap of the OG Barbie (sometimes multiple swaps) which would mean the movie has lots of race-swapped Barbies (and of course Mattel has for decades released Barbies in a wide range of racial appearances, since they released there was money to be made by doing that), and, when you get down to it, Ken is basically just gender-swapped Barbie, right?

Remaining faithful to the source material though so it's fine.

 

[choxorn]

Was Mattel being woke when they started selling alternate-race Barbies a few decades ago?

 

[Zardnaar]

Was Mattel being woke when they started selling alternate-race Barbies a few decades ago?

Shrugs not my jam.

 

[Stengeh]

I liked the movie, even though the whole Barbie thing is very out of touch for me. But in general, the movie was cool. Margot Robbie is adorable.

 

[sophie]

There's no race-swapping going on (much less gender-swapping of course) in Barbie. Barbie isn't a "Girl Boss" who beats up other characters & in a Barbie-focused movie you'd expect her to be the main character.

It's got a trans woman in it

Its basically a feminist movie targeted at women. Also mocks feminism along with everything else.

My main takeaway extremism bad make world better but it will take time. Ymmv.

and like a 5 minute monologue in which a woman talks uninterrupted about how the structures of society have been set up in such a way so as to always benefit men at the expense of directly harming women. And they win the day by awakening all the other Barbies to this truth.

 

[RobAnybody]

It's got a trans woman in it

This is where I think people get confused on the "woke" criticism - just having representation isn't what people see as "woke" (I hate using that word, but it's shorthand at this point so whatever). Just having a female protagonist pushing a pro-women/girls message (like Barbie) isn't woke. That's expected & no big deal. Simply having minorities or LGBT+ people isn't woke (unless it's in a setting where it clearly isn't appropriate I guess, like an isolated medieval European village).

This has been explained numerous times but people keep going "but there's a woman in it! but there's a gay character! where's the consistency?!?" & it just strikes me as willfully not listening at this point. Not saying people have to agree, but just hearing what is actually said would be... I dunno, polite, I guess?

 

[CaffeineJunkie]

shoeonhead liked the movie & saw it as somewhat ironic (or anyway claims she thinks it was made somewhat ironically)

That's a "positive" review of the "I can't believe anything this stupid is meant to be taken at face value" variety. They should be interpreted as negative reviews when we know that the text was, in fact, meant to be taken at face value.

Anyway, Bill Maher has weighed in and he's siding with the Critical Drinker and Ben Shapiro in terms of the movie's political messaging.

 

[sophie]

This is where I think people get confused on the "woke" criticism - just having representation isn't what people see as "woke" (I hate using that word, but it's shorthand at this point so whatever). Just having a female protagonist pushing a pro-women/girls message (like Barbie) isn't woke. That's expected & no big deal. Simply having minorities or LGBT+ people isn't woke (unless it's in a setting where it clearly isn't appropriate I guess, like an isolated medieval European village).

This has been explained numerous times but people keep going "but there's a woman in it! but there's a gay character! where's the consistency?!?" & it just strikes me as willfully not listening at this point. Not saying people have to agree, but just hearing what is actually said would be... I dunno, polite, I guess?

Ok, so 1) queer people also existed in isolated medieval European villages

and 2) because this isn't consistent? Like on the first part because the people that complain about media being woke are pretty mad about the trans woman being in the movie? And also because of all the times where it is "just having representation" that is clearly advanced as the thing that makes it "woke". For instance, Lightyear elicited cries of "woke" for having two women kissing and holding their child in the background of one blink-and-you'll-miss-it scene. Ghostbusters, likewise had a big backlash before anybody knew if it was good or not, again, ostensibly because the cast was replaced by women. And this is of course omitting the big "woke" moments from this year, like with Bud Lite, where the offense appears to have been a trans woman holding a can of Bud Lite with her face on it, or Target having small pride clothing sections in one portion of their stores for one month of the year.

Like you can insist if you want that "woke" is more nuanced than simply "black people and women in places I don't like them," but I have yet to see anybody articulate a definition that doesn't reduce down to "it had a woman in it and that ruined the movie for me, personally." And when pressed for a more concrete set of criteria, the move appears to be "well I just know it when I see it" which is not dispositive of the apparent definition.

 

[choxorn]

This has been explained numerous times

Can you kindly point us to where this has been explained numerous times? Because, as Sophie said, the explanations tend to be either "there's a minority and I don't think there should be because reasons" or "well it's woke if it's woke, I know it when I see it"

 

[Zardnaar]

It's got a trans woman in it



and like a 5 minute monologue in which a woman talks uninterrupted about how the structures of society have been set up in such a way so as to always benefit men at the expense of directly harming women. And they win the day by awakening all the other Barbies to this truth.

Sure i can see that arguement.
Interesting part I found was how much free will the Barbies and Ken's have.

There's a lot going on in the movies multiple take aways one could have.

Eg Barbies are also the villains.

 

[sophie]

multiple take aways

Eg Barbies are also the villains.

So by “take aways” you mean those facile nerd powerscaling videos by dudes with zero media literacy and no formal grounding in any kind of theory?

ya thx but ill pass lmao

 

[Zardnaar]

So by “take aways” you mean those facile nerd powerscaling videos by dudes with zero media literacy and no formal grounding in any kind of theory?

ya thx but ill pass lmao

No idea I don't watch them.

Barbie as villains comes from a liberal youtuber lol.
The Ken's have less power and voices than women in the 19th century who at least vould think about things and start the suffrage movement.

This guy. He normally gets called a shill by the usual suspects.

 

[Broken_Erika]

That's a "positive" review of the "I can't believe anything this stupid is meant to be taken at face value" variety. They should be interpreted as negative reviews when we know that the text was, in fact, meant to be taken at face value.

Anyway, Bill Maher has weighed in and he's siding with the Critical Drinker and Ben Shapiro in terms of the movie's political messaging.

The. Movie. Is. Based. Off. A. Toy. For. Little. Girls.

 

[Kyriakos]

"Kens are homeless and live in the beach" ^^

 

[GenMarshall]

The. Movie. Is. Based. Off. A. Toy. For. Little. Girls.

 

[CaffeineJunkie]

The. Movie. Is. Based. Off. A. Toy. For. Little. Girls.

So was Jem and the Holograms but that movie was awesome.

 

[Farm Boy]

That's expected & no big deal. Simply having minorities or LGBT+ people isn't woke (unless it's in a setting where it clearly isn't appropriate I guess, like an isolated medieval European village).

Just to expand on the reply you've gotten a little bit: western culture is a little weird because of the Roman Catholic Church in a pretty fundamental way people tend to be really blind to: being gay is not a sin to a Roman Catholic, even if you go waaaay back. Acting sexually on your gayness, is. Now that is quite a conundrum, but you wind up with an unusual interplay - the holiest lived lives in the Catholic institution are celibate, males in the holy orders that run the church all the way to the top, and females in the holy orders that run the church at the ground level as the best lived examples "outside the politics." If you want to add up the influence of the priesthood at its mightiest and most oppressive, when it dominated those who were learned, the Catholic churched offered(and enforced) itself as the place to be, the life to live, for those who wanted to be upright and respectable and powerful and influential --- while being gay. At the same price heterosexuals were expected to "pay." If I had to wager, I would say gay men and women played an outsized role, relatively speaking, through that institution throughout history, especially compared to what people think today.

The. Movie. Is. Based. Off. A. Toy. For. Little. Girls.

The doll modeled a hooker, originally.