Blackwater looks to expand domestic role...

[Bronx Warlord]

Having seen and worked with some of these guys... I'd much rather have the guys from Triple Canopy doing work inside CONUS then this group of yahoo's. And Ecofarm your dead wrong about your assessment of the National Guard of the US Army in many ways. Considering many NG Soldiers have about 1/10th of the training time yet in many cases manage to outshine AD units, I'll let that speak for itself. A lot of cops and firemen as well as ex active duty guys in the Guard, were the avrage age and life experance is higher than in active duty military units.

Now onto Ravens " point " with is opinion based in many regards. Were I some desk jockey at FEMA and dealing with some really, really, really pissed off NO citizens... I'd want BW or anyone to watch my back. You would too, pure and simple. Blackwater, imho, is not all it's cracked up to be. They just have the flash and the " brand name " yet I can tell you, from personal experance, your buddy Bronx and his fellow Marines saved there asses a few times in Iraq when they went into the wrong area out numbered and outgunned. Just the name of the game sometimes. Most of them imho had attiudes and ego's the size of a " le royal with cheese " and did not have the skills to back it up, just a lot of hot air and jaw jacking.

 

[MobBoss]

I'd trust an ex-SF member of Blackwater to save my butt alot more than I would trust some yahoo in the national guard. Nonetheless, your point is valid in general.

The government representatives would have to be trusted to make an informed decision for us. Something they prove to be incapable of doing everyday, but hey... what can ya do?

The guard are good at playing spades and carrying heavy objects, but if you want a sniper that will not fall asleep on guard duty... my money is on Blackwater. The training of the average guardsman is not 1/10th the training of a Blackwater employee (or even an active basic infantryman). Unfortunately, I can't afford Blackwater, so I guess I'll just watch my own butt and play some spades with the guardsmen.

Actually, I missed this post and will now reply to it. You may be suprised to learn that many para-military contractors serving in Iraq are also members of various National Guard units across the USA. No joke.

Also, a very large percentage of the National Guard are prior-active service veterans who left active duty, but still serve in the National Guard and reserves. As Bronx also pointed out, a large number are also police, and firemen as well. You err greatly if you really think your average National Guardsmen is just some redneck from the backwoods without a clue. National Guard units deploying to Iraq have to pass the same training gates/requirements that active component forces have to prior to leaving conus to theater.

Again, you may have had some small experience in the military, but from your comments I can tell it wasnt very informative or very positive.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

National Guard units deploying to Iraq have to pass the same training gates/requirements that active component forces have to prior to leaving conus to theater.

With about 1/10th of the training time and resources. I am amazed at what they can and often do in theater.

 

[MobBoss]

With about 1/10th of the training time and resources. I am amazed at what they can and often do in theater.

Well, the 1/10th training time is rather misleading. The real reason is that they have veterans who stay in those particular units for decades, which is unheard of in the active forces. What this means is you have a much larger pool of institutional knowledge and experience to pull from. National Guard guys know what to do because they have been doing it for friggin 30 years or more at evey summer camp the go to. I just went to a retirement for a guard Chief Warrant who was in the legal section here. The guy had 37 years of continual service. He was in the guard during Vietnam for goodness sakes. And he would have liked to stay in...but he was friggin 60 years old! He had hit is mandatory retirement date.

After just hitting my 20 I think of guys that have served for 35+ voluntarily years like that and I just shake my head in disbelief.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

Well, the 1/10th training time is rather misleading. The real reason is that they have veterans who stay in those particular units for decades, which is unheard of in the active forces. What this means is you have a much larger pool of institutional knowledge and experience to pull from. National Guard guys know what to do because they have been doing it for friggin 30 years or more at evey summer camp the go to. I just went to a retirement for a guard Chief Warrant who was in the legal section here. The guy had 37 years of continual service. He was in the guard during Vietnam for goodness sakes. And he would have liked to stay in...but he was friggin 60 years old! He had hit is mandatory retirement date.

After just hitting my 20 I think of guys that have served for 35+ voluntarily years like that and I just shake my head in disbelief.

Same time, for combat arms units, the " one weekend a month two weeks a year " is not enough imho. Yet they do it and manage to get by. Thats outstanding imho.

 

[JollyRoger]

Retracted 10 char

 

[amadeus]

Good, let them provide security for celebrities and keep them the hell out of the roles that govt. should provide.

What really is the difference between what Blackwater does and what any public force does?

 

[El_Machinae]

What really is the difference between what Blackwater does and what any public force does?

Who they answer to, in the end.

 

[amadeus]

Who they answer to, in the end.

In the end, it's always some arm of the state.

 

[JZ_UK]

Disagree all you want, but read this: http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/a/civucmj.htm

A snippet: U.S. Military Contractors operating in combat zones are now subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). Congress quietly made this change as part of the FY 2007 Military Authorization Act.

This means that civilian contractors in locations such as Iraq or Afghanistan can now be court-martialed or punished under the provisions of Article 15 if they violate any of the punitive articles of the UCMJ. For example, a civilian contractor who mouths off to a commissioned officer in Iraq could conceivably be court-martialed and sentenced to prison for up to one year for violating Article 89, Disrespect toward a superior commissioned officer.

As I said before....wrong on both counts.

OBJECTION!

The US military contractors, that would be those who work under the Department of Defence, Blackwater work under the State Department, this excludes them from the UCMJ and thus does in fact leave them operating in a lacuna or at least a very gray area

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7028848.stm

Currently the legal status of private contractors working independently of the US military in war zones is unclear and legally untested.

Private firms working for the Department of Defence are subject to existing US legislation, but those private firms such as Blackwater working for the state department are not.