Body Shaming Lizzo

[red_elk]

The (english) feet system is dumb
And yes, 1.72 meters is 5,642 feet, but usually feet/inches are used, in which case it is almost 5.8 (?) https://coolconversion.com/lenght/cm-to-feet-inches/How-tall-is_1.72_m_in_feet_and_inch_?

You are right, I forgot about inches and converted it wrongly too
5'5'' is 165 cm, not 168

 

[tjs282]

X-posting again, sue me...

Meh. I'm morbidly obese. If someone tells me I'm morbidly obese, I'm not shamed.

BMI of 41.6 baybeeeeeee

Granted, my ribs stick out at a BMI of 30 due to being barrel chested, but I'm still well past the "yikes, dawg" stage right now. I'm very short.

But, if I remember , you do also have a medical condition(s) that limit your mobility and/or predispose you to (excessive) weight gain, right? ME, or something like that? Not to mention dozens(?) of food-intolerances that also make it difficult for you to eat a 'healthy' diet? So in a sense, you're one of those individuals who have an excuse (kinda sorta) for being overweight.

I've read there are also (increasing?) numbers of people whose endocrine-systems don't work properly to tell their brain that their stomach is full/ body is sated, leading to them eating more than they need.

And becoming (seriously) overweight -- for whatever reason -- does of course then make exercising (much) more difficult/uncomfortable.

We almost have the same height, if 1.72 meters= 5,643 feet ^_^

I think your converter's off: 5'5" = 65 inches = 165 cm. That 7 cm (~3 inches) difference will likely mostly be down to leg-length. But since the 'basic' calculation of BMI = weight / height^2, even a smallish variation in height can make quite a difference to any 2 results.

(I'm around 182 cm, my wife is 164 cm, but the height-difference between us is almost entirely down to leg-length. She weighs ~58 kg, and I'm only a little heavier at ~64 kg, but our BMIs are ~21.3 and ~19.3, respectively)

On topic:

Sounds like Michaels was kinda 'tricked' into saying something that could then be portrayed as nasty fat-shaming -- which would not be unexpected, given that she was being interviewed by a gossip (tabloid?) journalist, and that's what they tend to do*. She answered clumsily, sure, but it sounds like she was at least trying to be nice, otherwise why mention Lizzo's music at all?

Spoiler * :

I firmly believe that people who choose gossip-journalism as a career are the same type of person that I'm sure we all knew at school, who deliberately stirred things up just because they derived perverse gratification from all the ensuing arguments/ grudges that they'd inspired.

(Full disclosure: Prior to reading this thread, I neither knew nor cared who either of these people are, nor what they do)

Side note:

On this thread, CFC is currently showing me adverts from Tschibo (German coffee-shop/ mail-order retailer) for women's plus-size clothing/ underwear...

 

[Arakhor]

There's Prader-Willi Syndrome, but that's a case of sufferers needing to be locked away from food.

 

[Kyriakos]

There's Prader-Willi Syndrome, but that's a case of sufferers needing to be locked away from food.

"Prader-Willi" sounds like another installment in the Manic Miner 8bit games.

You had a fun time in Vienna, but now the tour bus left and you have to make your way back to the hotel on your own, and your wallet seems to be missing too! Avoid clowns, jack-in-the-box and other enemies, while collecting useful coins to buy your evening meal.

 

[Sommerswerd]

At first I was like, this lady is totally out of pocket. But her whole brand is to be anti-fatness, so if you're going to pay her heed, then her job is to tell you someone is fat. So I blame you, civvver, for promoting her message.

Lizzo's music is great.

Its worth noting that there is a difference between advocating "health" versus advocating "fitness"... with the former being more about a the well-being/mortality of people and the later having a higher focus on what essentially amounts to beauty. In some ways it's similar to the difference between weightlifting and bodybuilding with one focused on a specific task and the other focused on body aesthetics.

The other dynamic at play here is our societal practice of heavily associating our egos and personal sense of self-worth on our perceived physical/sexual attractiveness. The whole concept of "body shaming" is firmly rooted in people's feeling that if people don't find them physically/sexually attractive that they are less worthy as a human being. Nobody ever gets outraged about "math shaming" or "STEM shaming" whereby people are mocked or criticized for their lack of proficiency in math/sciences. But people have this visceral reaction to being told that they aren't good-looking, and to others being told that they aren't good looking. I know that the ones doing the "shaming" will try to defend themselves from criticism by saying that they are concerned more with "health" than appearance, but I am generally skeptical that you can truly separate the two, in the sense that while "health" is certainly different from "beauty"/"fitness"/"appearance", the persons on the receiving end of the "shaming" inevitably and unavoidably perceive criticism of their size as criticism of their appearance, and thus their attractiveness. And because "fitness" is so intertwined with appearance to the point of it being just another way of saying "beauty", I don't think a fitness merchant like Gillian Michaels can excuse her criticism of people for being fat as being benevolent concern for people's health. When a fitness merchant says that we shouldn't celebrate fatness because of the "health risks" they're masking self-serving marketing of their beauty products as medical advice.

 

[Kyriakos]

Not thinking much also has health repercussions (what a hideous word ). Afaik it can lead to alzheimer's disease.

 

[The_J]

More people should. No pride in being uneducated.
(nothing against being uneducated, but normally I don't present it on a plate with candles on it)

 

[Arakhor]

I'm always a bit baffled when someone volunteers that they're bad at maths or spelling or the like. Why would you admit lacking a basic life skill unless you really needed to?

 

[Hygro]

I'm always a bit baffled when someone volunteers that they're bad at maths or spelling or the like. Why would you admit lacking a basic life skill unless you really needed to?

That logic can extend.

 

[Narz]

Its worth noting that there is a difference between advocating "health" versus advocating "fitness"... with the former being more about a the well-being/mortality of people and the later having a higher focus on what essentially amounts to beauty. In some ways it's similar to the difference between weightlifting and bodybuilding with one focused on a specific task and the other focused on body aesthetics.

? Fitness is about being fit to perform tasks. It's in the definition. Plenty of hot people are not fit. Plenty of fit people are not hot.

I know that the ones doing the "shaming" will try to defend themselves from criticism by saying that they are concerned more with "health" than appearance, but I am generally skeptical that you can truly separate the two, in the sense that while "health" is certainly different from "beauty"/"fitness"/"appearance", the persons on the receiving end of the "shaming" inevitably and unavoidably perceive criticism of their size as criticism of their appearance, and thus their attractiveness.

Everyone's gonna judge anyway, at least fitness people are offering a solution. Millions of fat people get surgery & use dangerous diet products, fitness is obviously a better, safer solution.

And because "fitness" is so intertwined with appearance to the point of it being just another way of saying "beauty"

In the mind of someone afraid to be judged maybe. In actuality fitness is much more than beauty, it literally saves people's lives (there are multiple studies showing a fitness routine is as effective as taking drugs for anxiety/depression). If you throw the superficial appeal of looking better into the mix it becomes that much more appealing to try it.

I don't think a fitness merchant like Gillian Michaels can excuse her criticism of people for being fat as being benevolent concern for people's health. When a fitness merchant says that we shouldn't celebrate fatness because of the "health risks" they're masking self-serving marketing of their beauty products as medical advice.

Becoming fit saves lives. Are people's feelings more valuable than their lives? Maybe this singer lady will give her the benefit of the doubt that her advice is coming from a good place, take it, and prosper.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I'm always a bit baffled when someone volunteers that they're bad at maths or spelling or the like. Why would you admit lacking a basic life skill unless you really needed to?

Maybe someone would offer help so the person can get better.

Personally, I haven't used quadratic equations after I graduated from high school. That's five months short of 40 years ago. Somehow I've survived.

 

[Sommerswerd]

? Fitness is about being fit to perform tasks. It's in the definition. Plenty of hot people are not fit. Plenty of fit people are not hot. Everyone's gonna judge anyway, at least fitness people are offering a solution. Millions of fat people get surgery & use dangerous diet products, fitness is obviously a better, safer solution. In the mind of someone afraid to be judged maybe. In actuality fitness is much more than beauty, it literally saves people's lives (there are multiple studies showing a fitness routine is as effective as taking drugs for anxiety/depression). If you throw the superficial appeal of looking better into the mix it becomes that much more appealing to try it. Becoming fit saves lives. Are people's feelings more valuable than their lives? Maybe this singer lady will give her the benefit of the doubt that her advice is coming from a good place, take it, and prosper.

About feelings being more valuable than lives... Consider whether you would rather live a hundred years felling sad, depressed, discontent, unsatisfied with your life... or thirty years blissful, happy, living out your dreams, enjoying everything life has to offer. Also consider that the answer to this question might be different for any individual person.

There is no real basis to assume that any individual... or society at large FTM... is benefited more by a long life, than by a happy life. If a person is happier eating what they want, drinking what they want and making merry... in exchange for a potentially shorter life... what is the value in browbeating them with the idea that if only they give up eating the foods that they love and other substances that they enjoy... to the extent that they love and instead submit to tedious "fitness" regimens that they despise and make them miserable... that their lives will somehow have more value?

Life is unavoidably temporary. I'd conclude that in his relatively short life, Jimi Hendrix created music that that brought lasting pleasure, enjoyment and enlightenment to countless people... and that music would not have been possible, but for the drugs, etc that he was using to excess, and which eventually led to his death. "Good Health" should be something available to people who want it, not some objective moral good that we impose on everyone. Some people are much happier just consuming what they want and engaging in the behaviors they enjoy, without someone proselytizing them that they should be working out, or eating kale, or getting some cardio... or attending church.... as opposed to eating chicken wings, or drinking beer, or bacon, or smoking weed, or playing video games... or arguing about things on the internet.

 

[Hygro]

I agree mixed with it’s still moral to pick your healthy path.

 

[Kyriakos]

Isn't Lizzo a musician?
It would seem a bit too derivative to have thin Lizzo

 

[civvver]

The worst I've been is 280 pounds/20 stone. This was during the height of my bingeing with reckless abandon and no attempt at self-regulation.

I genuinely can't fathom how someone can get over 300 pounds/22 stone without height playing a major part in it (e.g. you're over six feet). At my worst there was a noticeable impact on just basic living and I was eating as much as I could stuff into my gullet. It just impacts living so much, and then there are people who not only weigh more than 300 but go above 400 too. Granted, I'm at a disadvantage due to general health and I'm more sensitive, but I do struggle to see how 300+, 400+, is livable. And I struggle to see how someone can live like that and then also have the gall to publicly say that it's fine and good to weigh so much, that there's "health at every size," that they simply practice self-care and they're beautiful.

Am I a fat shamer? I guess I fit the bill. I've lived with morbid obesity and its effects, I've seen it and its effects in others. I find it really difficult to consider obesity a neutral trait.

What I struggle to see is for an averaged height person like 5'8"-5'10" for a man, how you can keep eating to maintain 400 lbs. I would just be so damn full all the time. I mean sure I've gone on binges and drank a 6 pack of beer and eaten a whole pint of ice cream in one night before during a movie marathon, but I usually feel like crap the next day and there's no way I could eat that much every day. Sometimes on vacation/travelling we'll have fast food for lunch and dinner and I'll just go meh, I'm still stuffed and can't eat any more fries.

I'm guessing it's liquid sugar consumption. I supposed you could easily drink a few two liters of coke daily without trying that hard.

Anyway, about feeling good and being fit, I'm around 200 lbs, 5'7" and I definitely notice I get more winded easily, playing with my kids like lifting them up and tossing them around like they enjoy, or just going up a bunch of stairs, bending over to change their diapers or tie their shoes is a lot hard. When I was working out five times a week and ~180 it was a lot smoother. I'm not sure if it's the weight or that I was doing movements like squats and all the time with weights so I had more endurance in that regard.

BMI is kind of bs though, I am definitely overweight by a lot and it shows, I have a gut for sure and my face looks fat right now. But the "healthy" weight range for my height like 125 - 155 lbs. Are you kidding me? I'd be skin and bones at 125, I think I weighed that when I was 12. I would be shredded at 155. Ideal weight for me is probably more like 165-170 which would still classify as overweight.

 

[Narz]

@Sommerswerd You're creating a false dichotomy, doing healthy stuff creates better brain chemicals.

I agree you'll never convince anyone by "browbeating" them but no one is really happy sitting on their porch drinking and smoking cigarettes and eating donuts (there are mofos in my building who do this everyday, yeah they're not happy).

If you really talk to someone like that theyll admit they want to change they just feel stuck.

Jimi Hendrix could've lived longer and better and created more, let's not glorify tragedy, saying his talent came from drugs is like saying Big Pun's came from food.

Celebrating self-destruction is wack.

Humanity itself is self-destructing as we speak cuz we'd rather have $1 chicken sandwiches and SUVs than a sustainably existence on Earth. Gross.

 

[Hygro]

I agree that celebrating self destruction is wack but how much of a change would Hendrix needed before he made it, and how much would that have changed his gifts to the world and the life that empowered him?

 

[Narz]

About feelings being more valuable than lives... Consider whether you would rather live a hundred years felling sad, depressed, discontent, unsatisfied with your life... or thirty years blissful, happy, living out your dreams, enjoying everything life has to offer.

Also its worth pointing out that people who are addicted are rarely "choosing to enjoy". If you can't go a day without making a "choice" you're not living your dreams, you're caught in a loop (generally to your own detriment and someone else's profit).

"Just do you", "you deserve it", "treat yourself", these aren't empowering reminders from a society that cares, they're advertising slogans to make you a junky and rape your soul.

 

[Narz]

I agree that celebrating self destruction is wack but how much of a change would Hendrix needed before he made it, and how much would that have changed his gifts to the world and the life that empowered him?

I cant really speak on Hendrix, I know very little of his life.

It's pretty sad about Cobain and Big Pun tho.

Saying that without their demons they couldn't have been geniuses is unfounded though.

Plenty of geniuses don'tself-destruct and produce for decades.

We never know what could've saved them, sometimes it's one person, one book, a chance encounter... sometimes it's just luck. If I'd been prescribed a more deadly drug that wouldve killed me on ingesting 300 of them instead of the fairly benign Lithium I'd probably have been dead in 1997

To bring it back on topic, judginf someone giving health advice really comes down to whether they actually care or not.

Some people do just want to feel superior and judge but if someone gives sound advice we should give them the benefit of the doubt. Even if someone who tells me to eat more green veggies is an ahole they're still right.

Being like "no you're mean, I'm eating cookies b****" is the reaction of a 5-year old

 

[Sommerswerd]

"Just do you", "you deserve it", "treat yourself", these aren't empowering reminders from a society that cares, they're advertising slogans to make you a junky and rape your soul.

So are "just do it" and "no pain no gain"

I'd absolutely rather sit on the couch watching TV than go to the gym.