Boycott Halal

[El_Machinae]

So, a question each Christian needs to ask.
Does Halal violate the spirit of this commandment?

28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

"idols" potentially being "false gods" here.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Why does MUI hate freedom markets?

 

[Borachio]

You'll get scurvy if you boycott halal.

Wut?



No. Seriously, I don't get it.

 

[bhsup]

So, a question each Christian needs to ask.
Does Halal violate the spirit of this commandment?

28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

"idols" potentially being "false gods" here.

Not at all. We are all, as I have consistently said throughout the years, worshippers of the same God.

I'd rather mobilize for dialogue with reasonable silent majority folks in the muslim world. Get them to take control and slap down the nutjobs.

Remember, Christians, Jews, and Muslims are all worshippers of the God of Abraham. It should be a point of common ground, not division

I have personally never understood why we cannot live in peace. The way I personally see it is like this...

We are all three (Jews, Christians, and Muslims) worshippers of the God of Abraham. Surely there is more to unite us than to divide us. We do not have to accept the particular beliefs of the others that contradict our own, but we can still respect the others' rights to hold those beliefs.

 

[classical_hero]

But I guess Kosher is fine 'ey ch

Anyway why do you hate private enterprise.

All costs are ultimately passed onto the consumer. So for a slaughterhouse paying $27,000 for certification month, that is a lot of money that will eventually be passed onto the consumer. You can apply for a Kosher certification for $1500 to $3000 a year in comparison. They are just to cover any costs and not for a profit. These costs are much less invasive that being Halal and they don't go to overseas organisations.

@El_Mach, the main problem is that they are forcing a cost on consumers since it means that we are paying for the "privilege" of being acceptable to Muslims. We shouldn't have to pay anything to anyone if we don't want to. Anyway to get to your point, Paul says in 1 Cor 8 that Idols are nothing and thus we know anything dedicated to an Idol is being dedicated to nothing, and since we worship the one true God, the dedication is nothing and thus eating the meat offered to idols has no additional value, besides just being food. But if some people find it that they can't eat meat sacrificed to an idol, then we shouldn't do it in front of that person and offend them.

 

[Ajidica]

So for a slaughterhouse paying $27,000 for certification month, that is a lot of money that will eventually be passed onto the consumer.

As demand for halal certification increases, we will probably see more companies offering such certification, increasing supply, and driving down cost.
Secondly, are you aware of how little $27,000 is for large meatpacking plants? It is a tiny, tiny, amount given their expenditures. At absolute most, you might see cost go up by a few cents. If anything, costs might go down because as more people buy the halal-certified meat, companies can lower price yet still keep the same revenue by making it up in bulk.

 

[El_Machinae]

Not at all. We are all, as I have consistently said throughout the years, worshippers of the same God.

Yup! I already knew how you'd answer.

@El_Mach, the main problem is that they are forcing a cost on consumers since it means that we are paying for the "privilege" of being acceptable to Muslims.

You're objecting on behalf of Muslim customers? Is anyone forcing people to purchase this product, or is it merely a new type of variety?

Paul says in 1 Cor 8 that Idols are nothing and thus we know anything dedicated to an Idol is being dedicated to nothing, and since we worship the one true God, the dedication is nothing and thus eating the meat offered to idols has no additional value, besides just being food. But if some people find it that they can't eat meat sacrificed to an idol, then we shouldn't do it in front of that person and offend them.

Well, I think that the commandment to abstain is pretty clear. Paul certainly gives people an opportunity to reason themselves (personally) out of the commandment; I've used such an opportunity in Galatians 5. One wonders why the council just didn't paraphrase 1 Cor 8 instead of give their much clearer guidelines? 1 Cor 8 always reminds me of ethical vegetarians, and the people who mock them.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Not at all. We are all, as I have consistently said throughout the years, worshippers of the same God.

The heretic is always worse than the heathen, for he follows your religion in a wrong way and implies that you are the heretic. I think it's some kind of metaphysical uncanny valley effect.

On topic:I don't seek out halal (or kosher) meat, nor do I actively avoid it. As for animal cruelty concerns, our entire modern meat industry is pretty appaling anyway, so I choose to be a vegetarian at least half the time and if I have a craving for meat I'll let my appetite decide whether I'll enjoy a steak or a kebab. I don't really see what the big deal is with this story. If a company wants to export to another country it's self-evident that it has to follow foreign standards. If the certificates look like a pretext to inflate the price of Australian meat in Indonesia take it to the WTO. Otherwise look for another market. There's plenty of non-muslims in Asia.

 

[Camikaze]

I'm not sure that deciding not to buy a product because it costs more really counts as a boycott.

 

[mrt144]

I'm not sure that deciding not to buy a product because it costs more really counts as a boycott.

my Ferrari boycot continues in its 29th year!

 

[El_Machinae]

Similar to the reason why I don't sleep with Paris Hilton.

 

[Formaldehyde]

All costs are ultimately passed onto the consumer. So for a slaughterhouse paying $27,000 for certification month, that is a lot of money that will eventually be passed onto the consumer. You can apply for a Kosher certification for $1500 to $3000 a year in comparison. They are just to cover any costs and not for a profit. These costs are much less invasive that being Halal and they don't go to overseas organisations.

How do you know they are in any way comparable? According to the article, this is just a fourfold increase over the previous cost, so they were apparently gladly paying over $6K per month in the past.

According to the article I posted, Halal meat is a $4B a year revenue stream for Australians. Do you know how much of that revenue this particular slaughterhouse generates each year? As Ajidica pointed out, this fee is quite likely minuscule in comparison. It is also due to the fact that Indonesia now requires different inspectors than other countries:

The delisting of Queensland’s main Halal certifier on April 8 is believed to relate to internal disputes within the Muslim certifiers over the state based arrangements and opportunities for certifiers to expand their business across states.

Until this development, Queensland packers have been able to pay one certifier to handle all certification requirements for all Halal markets including Indonesia that they supply.

And at least some of the money goes to local Muslim organizations.

Certifiers are required to return some of the money they are paid by processors for Halal certification services back to their local Muslim community, such as through donations to Mosques or Islamic schools. It is understood that one of the reasons for the state-based rule was to ensure that money from certification services stays within the local muslim community.

 

[Borachio]

Similar to the reason why I don't sleep with Paris Hilton.

Oh no. She's got a funny nose.

One of these:

But the real reason I don't sleep with her is that she hasn't asked me to. And why she hasn't is an utter mystery to me.

 

[BvBPL]

Rabbis who certify foods as kosher and parve also charge significant fees for their services here in the States.

I remember a few years ago when two kosher certification rabbis got into a tiff with each other. They instructed their congregations to not buy foods certified by the other guy.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

What about kosher food? Killing animals is killing animals, and going through the jugulars first instead of through the bones hardly makes a difference in terms of animal welfare; in both cases, the animal will die in less than a few seconds.

As we have seen in previous threads, kosher slaughter is typically more humane than Halal. The Kashrut rules mandate a highly trained slaughterer who must use a special knife. This must be extra long, extremely sharp, and inspected for defects before and after each use. Temple Grandin confirms that the animals really do not seem to feel it when the are slain with this knife.

Halal rules are not so particular about the knife, and so it is not uncommon for slaughters to use much shorter, duller, even nicked knives which cause the animals considerable discomfort. There is no reason why they couldn't use better knives and be as humane as Kosher slaughter (some Halal slaughterers do), but many certifying organizations do not insist upon it.

 

[Farm Boy]

Might be a blow to pride for Halal slaughterers to admit that they might be better served to emulate parts of Kosher slaughterers?

 

[Formaldehyde]

Yeah. I'm sure it has little to do with what their religion stipulates, despite them both being so remarkably similar.

 

[classical_hero]

Not at all. We are all, as I have consistently said throughout the years, worshippers of the same God.

According to the Qu'ran Allah has no son. According to both the Old and New Testaments, God has a son. Don't you see the contradiction there?

Yup! I already knew how you'd answer.
You're objecting on behalf of Muslim customers? Is anyone forcing people to purchase this product, or is it merely a new type of variety?

If was for different products, it would be okay, but it is the general produce of the company. So all products are part of the Halal line. A separate line for those catering towards Muslims would be better, but i don't understand why they don't what we Christians do, is bless our own food to God?

Well, I think that the commandment to abstain is pretty clear. Paul certainly gives people an opportunity to reason themselves (personally) out of the commandment; I've used such an opportunity in Galatians 5. One wonders why the council just didn't paraphrase 1 Cor 8 instead of give their much clearer guidelines? 1 Cor 8 always reminds me of ethical vegetarians, and the people who mock them.

Often those from a former religion will find it hard to not remember what the former things mean, so they find it best to avoid all things that can remind them of that. That can include not going to restaurants that have their former religions symbol showing an the like. There are others who know that such symbols are meaningless and thus they know they are nothing at and have no problem seeing those symbols and knowing they do nothing.

@Form, it almost seems like Islam took the Jewish Dietary laws from them.

 

[Gucumatz]

Reminds of the Polish thread wanting to ban Kosher products in Poland... Anyways - Indonesia is a huge market. If companies can even catch a fraction of that market, Australia is probably better off

 

[Formaldehyde]

@Form, it almost seems like Islam took the Jewish Dietary laws from them.

Do you think it might have something to do with them having the very same god and following essentially the same scriptures? "Don't you see the contradiction here"?