Bring Back Serial Thread Postcount

Why is this even being discussed?
Well because the original ruling years and years ago was that serialized threads were spam and thus their postcount got deleted when they were archived. After the forum changeover, this rule was accidentally unenforced and a lot of people liked the change. Then an admin caught the oversight and reinstated the old rules. We're here to argue that the original rules were wrong to begin with for various reasons and we would like them changed. We're also expressing no trivial amount of angry/grief that we gained something we valued only to have it taken away seemingly arbitrarily without any warning. We only found out that the rules got reinforced accidentally. Arakhor thought I was complaining about it in a thread a while back when in fact I actually didn't know about the change until he mentioned it. When I found out I immediately started this thread.
 
That doesn't really answer my question. I was more looking at the bigger picture.
This isn't a site that is spam filled. So why should there be a rule that is supposed to limit it. It's just stupid.
Maybe if more the mods actually read the posts in the OT they might actually realize that spam is not a problem.

Trust me, I've visited lots of sites where it was a problem, and this isn't one of them.

But again, what's the harm?
 
Oh yeah then I don't know.

I will say that spam has been an issue in OT on and off. But it's never reached a crisis state the way some other problems have.
 
If they want to see spam threads, I invite them to hop over to TrekBBS and check out the threads where people copy/paste the scripts from each series' episodes... one line per post. I've never taken part in that, though I have participated in the "3/5/7-word story" threads, where a story is told in either 3, 5, or 7 words per post (depending on which series; good luck getting anything coherent 3 posts in a row). There's someone there with a post count so high it's literally off the chart. He's over 100,000 (not kidding). Most of that was garnered through spam posts, over a period of 20 years. My post count there is less than half what it is here.
 
I should just clarify the traditional rationale: it is not that the serial threads and all posts within them are spam, but that those threads were allowed to exist as a place in which a greater degree of spam would be tolerated, the price for which would be that the posts would not contribute towards post count. Posters are not required to indulge themselves in the full extent of that latitude, and are quite welcome to make non-spammy posts in those threads if they wish. The lack of post count does not imply any judgment in relation to those posts. It's not that staff look at these threads, evaluate them, and deem them unworthy. Rather, it's a matter of having some threads where people are more free to post what they like without keeping on eye on whether posters are just farming the threads for post count (this was perhaps more a realistic possibility in the earlier days of forums, where that sort of thing absolutely would happen without some controls).

I would expect a decision to be reached on this issue shortly.
 
I have never noticed any differences in the approach to moderation or in the character of posts in the serialized threads. Heck, you can't even double-post there (@Arakhor frequently merges my posts) so I do not understand how this theory of allowing us to indulge ourselves in serialized threads was supposed to work in practice because in reality it is moderated much the same as everything else.

At least that is what it is like as a poster; if you guys take a different approach to those threads, it is completely lost on us to be honest. And I say just let them count like regular threads, it is easier and more fair.
 
Yeah, I've seen no real difference either, or in a difference of moderation so that rational just seems a bit silly. Maybe it was more of an issue a while back, but it certainly isn't now and I guess that's why this thread exists.
 
I should just clarify the traditional rationale: it is not that the serial threads and all posts within them are spam, but that those threads were allowed to exist as a place in which a greater degree of spam would be tolerated, the price for which would be that the posts would not contribute towards post count.
I never did understand this "traditional rationale." I seem to recall holding the same opinion then as I do now. I wasn't in favor then, and I'm waaaay past the view now, that there is any reason to essentially penalize people for posting in threads that have more than one topic going on at the same time.

As I recall, the earlier serial threads were not spam fests (the true spam fests were the "babe" threads, which we don't have anymore). As a matter of fact, they had some very good posts and good conversations, and at some point someone PM'd me and said (paraphrased) "Valka, I wish you'd come and post in the Random Raves/Rants threads" and when I asked why, they said it was because they liked my posts.

I said thank you, but I preferred to keep my posts for the threads where they were actually counted, rather than dismissed as spam.

Posters are not required to indulge themselves in the full extent of that latitude, and are quite welcome to make non-spammy posts in those threads if they wish. The lack of post count does not imply any judgment in relation to those posts. It's not that staff look at these threads, evaluate them, and deem them unworthy. Rather, it's a matter of having some threads where people are more free to post what they like without keeping on eye on whether posters are just farming the threads for post count (this was perhaps more a realistic possibility in the earlier days of forums, where that sort of thing absolutely would happen without some controls).
Except we're not free to post what we like. Spam infractions were handed out in serial threads in the past, double-posting, while not stomped on as much as before (I did my share of stomping when it was required), it's still frowned on and routinely edited, and now we get Arakhor coming along and berating us for staying on one conversation for too long ("This is supposed to be RANDOM!" :mad:) and killing whatever chance there might be for a natural end to the conversation and preventing some people from joining in if they'd just noticed it and wanted to contribute.

And yes, it damn well does imply a judgment that serial thread posts are deemed unworthy. There are some really good posts in those threads, and they deserve to be counted - and I don't just mean my own.

One of the benefits I pointed out about the serial threads many years ago is that they're good material to comb through if someone is looking for a good thread topic. It's what we did on another forum I belonged to - we had a kind of 'miscellaneous say whatever's on your mind' thread in the general discussion forum, and some people would periodically read through that to see if anyone had posted about something they thought would make a good topic for a whole thread of its own. It turned out that that thread was a goldmine of opportunities to find things to make a thread about.

But here? They get discarded in the archives where they're not easy to search, if anyone remembers them at all, and we lose the post count - like it never happened.

I could understand if it was some silly thing like posting a letter of the alphabet in each post or counting by threes or just a smiley. I've seen forums that allow that, and those are just meant to get easy post count. But since nothing here is tied to post count - it doesn't open any hidden forums, gain any perks that go with ranks, and no notice is taken of milestone posts - the argument that it's to "farm post count" is utter nonsense. I'll admit that I'm curious as to how some people managed such high post counts, but I just assume they've had a lot to say over the years and much of that happened during some of the times when I've taken a break and just didn't notice.

I would expect a decision to be reached on this issue shortly.
Thank you. I've seen legislation that's gone from tabling to Royal Assent in less time than this is taking.
 
The sad thing is that this already was a settled matter and then suddenly without consulting anybody or even making a formal announcement somebody said ‘screw what was agreed on, I'll do what I like’ yet again and we're having to re-argue everything that was argued. Yet again.
 
You're correct, it was settled. From the forum rules:

Non Discussion Threads
Outside of the civilization forums there are forums where non discussion threads are allowed under specific rules and conditions. Guidelines and rules for such threads are posted within the subforums or threads involved. Theses threads will be archived to a non-postcount forum once they reach 1000 posts.

The post count was counted after the change to xenForo. It was caught in December and the forum settings were changed to comply with the forum rules.

Please do not make this into something it is not.
 
I don't care about post count, personally, but it seems to me like it's been a while since there was lighter moderation in those threads.
 
Personally, if people are having a worthwhile, long-lasting conversation, I think that it's a good idea to move it outside of the serial threads. It ensures that they get their own dedicated thread that is not archived just because the latest post count is in four figures and people will then have an actual thread to go back to, rather than reading an inevitably locked thread.
 
You're correct, it was settled. From the forum rules:

Non Discussion Threads
Outside of the civilization forums there are forums where non discussion threads are allowed under specific rules and conditions. Guidelines and rules for such threads are posted within the subforums or threads involved. Theses threads will be archived to a non-postcount forum once they reach 1000 posts.

The post count was counted after the change to xenForo. It was caught in December and the forum settings were changed to comply with the forum rules.

Please do not make this into something it is not.
These are discussion threads. Most posts do not exist in a vacuum in the serial threads. They develop into short discussions, some of which become new threads. This is one way in which the culture of OT has shifted over the years.

We're giving you excellent reasons for changing the rules in the first place, because the forum is a different place now (literally) with a noticeably changed community and customs. A lot is different from ten years ago, and it doesn't really make sense to cling to the past just for the sake of tradition.

Personally, if people are having a worthwhile, long-lasting conversation, I think that it's a good idea to move it outside of the serial threads. It ensures that they get their own dedicated thread that is not archived just because the latest post count is in four figures and people will then have an actual thread to go back to, rather than reading an inevitably locked thread.
Do all locked threads get archived?

I don't disagree that it's a good idea to move a promising conversation to its own thread, but you quite often don't give it a chance to become a promising conversation. There have been times when you've literally mod-texted that "this isn't random enough, change the subject NOW!". That is not conducive to developing a topic enough to merit its own thread, and we'd appreciate some more patience about that. Especially when the conversation would have concluded in a few more posts anyway.
 
Personally, if people are having a worthwhile, long-lasting conversation, I think that it's a good idea to move it outside of the serial threads.
This does not detract in any way from the quality of the rest of the posts that are dead ends.
 
I could understand if it was some silly thing like posting a letter of the alphabet in each post or counting by threes or just a smiley. I've seen forums that allow that, and those are just meant to get easy post count.

As I recall, that was the original reason behind not giving postcount to Forum Games threads, a decision that was eventually changed (and rightfully so) because while there's certainly mildly spammy games like this, there's also tons of games there that legitimately involve substantial amounts of effort and discussion amongst the players, enough so that writing the entire forum off as pure spam doesn't make any sense. There was also the problem that a small minority of posters there posted exclusively in Forum Games and nowhere else (generally after having been invited there to play games by friends on other sites), which meant they had postcounts of 0 (or just slightly above 0)- which was a big problem for any game that involved secret communication between the game host and players or between players and other players, because of the anti-spam measure of requiring a certain number of posts before you're allowed to send private messages.

Is there any reason why the same reasoning can't apply here to make a change? It's clearly not unprecedented to give postcount to something that previously lacked it, the discussions may be random but that doesn't mean there isn't actual discussion happening. What exactly is so special about serial threads that makes them not count as "worthy" discussion?
 
Hm. I just did a search for the Ask a Theologian threads. Since they're numbered, that technically makes this a serial thread (#1 started back in 2007 and the current one is #5).

Guess where I found #1? It's locked and safely tucked away in Off-Topic. It wasn't archived, and everyone who posted in it still has their post count for what they said there.

I certainly mean no disrespect to Plotinus, but this seems to be somewhat of a double standard.
 
Presumably because they were serialised to keep down thread length, not because everyone was rushing to mini-blog aspects of their lives there.
 
@Valka D'Ur
On the one hand, I don't really want to antagonize the mods. On the other hand, that is a really good catch.

I have a very long running Space Cadet thread and while I don't plan on serializing it, there will probably come a point where it will be too long and begin to crash the software. If that happens, I would be really upset if I lost my postcount in that threat.
 
Presumably because they were serialised to keep down thread length, not because everyone was rushing to mini-blog aspects of their lives there.
Ok I'll bite - what makes mini blogs less worthy of postcount than a dedicated topic? This is all problematic.

It is fairer and simpler to give us back postcount. Plus, some of us feel wronged by this and that should be remedied. You all let the cat out of the bag so to speak with serial thread postcount in the forum software changeover. Even if you truly believe these threads are spam, the situation evolved in a way that people liked (or at worst are indifferent about) and then you all changed it without even letting us know or have input. It's not fair at this point to continue with the old rules even if we allow that these threads are spammy. (which I don't on principal but let's go with it for argument's sake)
 
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