The primary benefit I enjoy is seeing certain people irrationally getting their knickers in a wad.
British Multiculturalism
- Thread starter Quackers
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Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
What exactly do mean when we say "multiculturalism"? Are talking about the specific set of communalist policies cultivated by the Blair government, or we do just mean having to share a country with people who don't share your nationality, religion and/or skin colour?
It's really not clear from the OP, or from the discussion.
It's really not clear from the OP, or from the discussion.
Tahuti
Writing Deity
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That's why it is a horrible term to begin with.
Some pine for homoculturalism.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
It's a rant about how much it sucks when people who look differently than you come and settle in your town and country, a place where everybody is supposed to look the same.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Well, I think it has its uses in describing policies that were explicitly framed in terms of "multiculturalism". I just don't get the impression that it's what Quackers wants to say with the term.
After Shetland and Orkney declare independence*, you'll have less of these multiple cultures to worry about.
I remember that it's been posted on the message boards of the Independent and Grauniad that English people shouldn't complain about Eastern Europeans coming over, the UK bought half a century of progress at the cost of needlessly surrendering half the continent to the Soviet Union and giving them half a century of backwardness. Food for thought.
*: and become bases for Vikings on longships as in the old days
I remember that it's been posted on the message boards of the Independent and Grauniad that English people shouldn't complain about Eastern Europeans coming over, the UK bought half a century of progress at the cost of needlessly surrendering half the continent to the Soviet Union and giving them half a century of backwardness. Food for thought.
*: and become bases for Vikings on longships as in the old days
Quackers
The Frog
..and the best you can come up with is a jibe about grammar? Pathetic.
One sentence about Plotinus = half my post. Very clever.
Just go away. Moron.
You point out that the constituant countries of the UK and enhances what i'm saying. A common language, a common culture and centuries of history together; yet there still is a huge chunk of Scottish people who want to go for it alone. It just further proves my point that multi-ethnic countries are unstable. Hell, we already had a divorce from the ROI in the 1920s.
Now, instead of these people being culturally identical to the rest of the UK. You introduce millions from abroad who speak a different language, worship a different god and worst of all have a different moral code. Universally established moral norms underpin a confidant political society, when you disagree on the fundamentals people tend to radicalise and conflict arises. Certainly, Islam is at odds with the christian-inspired morality of the UK.
Of course there are "intergrated" minorities. I'm in full favour of them. Yet our system isn't set up to intergrate people, it's set-up for them to bring their Somali cultural practices over here and for us to "celebrate" the "diversity". Our system is designed to bend for them. This is colonialism.
Moderator Action: Calling someone a moron = being a jerk.
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Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
"Ein Volk, ein Reich..."
Revenge is best served with a side of Sharia law. Or should I say slaw?
Quackers
The Frog
I used to believe that I was -ok- with multiracialism. Yet, the evidence from history is clear, I think Dachs will agree with me on this. Multi-ethnic countries do not last. They're unstable and conflict is more common. Now, I would like to believe that we can live in a harmonioous multi-racial society, thats what my good heart tells me. Yet a look at the evidence proves it is untenable. Humans have inbuilt irrational distrust, a fear of others who aren't the same as them. Thats how tribalism began at the dawn of time. Now, you can say to me we can overcome our instincts and I agree with you, we can do this with many other things. Yet, i think this may prove impossible beyond a tipping point. As long as their is one huge group, at least 90% of the population than the type of conflict i discuss will be very low and on the whole it will be peaceful. Expand that to four ethnic groups with 25% of the population and such a society will be unsustainable.
useless
Social Justice Rogue
Maybe if the former Yugoslavia or Rwanda had more multiculturalism, the genocides/ethnic cleansing might not have happened.
Food for thought
Food for thought
aelf
Ashen One
So Quackers has turned into a raging racist and xenophobe? Can't say I'm surprised.
I blame the genes.
Told you so many times. Neoliberalism is a thing. It refers to the liberal political phenomenon whereby economic questions and economic competitiveness have superseded social and political concerns. Heck, even Peter Drucker talked about this, although he didn't call it neoliberalism.
I blame the genes.
Told you so many times. Neoliberalism is a thing. It refers to the liberal political phenomenon whereby economic questions and economic competitiveness have superseded social and political concerns. Heck, even Peter Drucker talked about this, although he didn't call it neoliberalism.
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
How does America fit in Multiculturalism not working?
Fun anecdote, in the 70's a lot of Turks immigrated to the Netherlands. People like Q complained.
Now the telly had a thing about Turks voting for Wilders because they didn't want an influx of Eastern-European immigrants.
Fun anecdote, in the 70's a lot of Turks immigrated to the Netherlands. People like Q complained.
Now the telly had a thing about Turks voting for Wilders because they didn't want an influx of Eastern-European immigrants.
Tahuti
Writing Deity
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Crime? Urban blight? Capitalism? Zionism? [Insert another Neo-Nazi complaint]
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
Ok. Good point. Apart from the Irish, how does it fit in?
Hm,
well, i was in England from 1998(9) to 2002.
I think that at the time it had a reasonable british/other eu/other commonwealth/other ratio (?). London obviously had loads of non-english people, but it is a massive city and an economic center as well (let alone that many indian, arabian and other ex-nationals were there due to the legacy of the empire and expatriation when the empire collapsed in those places).
In Colchester it was a bit different, of course, moreso outside the university. It has to be noted that the University of Essex did already have a massive number of non-british students (at least 25% if not considerably more). I was rather happy with that.
I read that nowdays there are more immigrants in England, but it seems that this is not the only thing which changed dramatically. You now have laws which are quite pre-emptively punishing, and diminishing freedom of speech, supposedly so as to protect from hate-crimes and so on.
well, i was in England from 1998(9) to 2002.
I think that at the time it had a reasonable british/other eu/other commonwealth/other ratio (?). London obviously had loads of non-english people, but it is a massive city and an economic center as well (let alone that many indian, arabian and other ex-nationals were there due to the legacy of the empire and expatriation when the empire collapsed in those places).
In Colchester it was a bit different, of course, moreso outside the university. It has to be noted that the University of Essex did already have a massive number of non-british students (at least 25% if not considerably more). I was rather happy with that.
I read that nowdays there are more immigrants in England, but it seems that this is not the only thing which changed dramatically. You now have laws which are quite pre-emptively punishing, and diminishing freedom of speech, supposedly so as to protect from hate-crimes and so on.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Well, what evidence? Certainly we can think of examples of states fracturing along ethnic lines, but we can also think of examples of fracturing within or across diverse ethnicities. There's no self-evident patterns.
I'm also sceptical that Dachs, a vocal proponent of civic nationalism, is going to come out swinging for your side.
^While (mass) multiculturalism can work if some conditions are (naturally, not forcibly) met, and perpetuated, it is highly unlikely that those exist in the current UK (and even less in the current USA).
I think that just about any state with a reasonably democratic mindset can have a significant percentage of people from other cultural backgrounds (something like <10%, not something like >30%). But no state can exist if the other ethnic groups tend to form ghettos and live outside of the rest of society, for whatever reason (either due to hostility from other groups there, or their own mindset of being an island of their own culture).
Moreover (obviously) some compatibility of culture always goes a long way to help the society function, even with a large group of other ethnic groups. Some example would be Greek and Armenian people, who have a long history of co-existing in various parts of the med. Even today there is a considerable armenian community in some cities here (my own city is one of them), and there surely never was any issue of discrimination or seclusion of that group.
[A different example could be compatible euro cultures, i recall that i felt quite at home with the main architecture in England (particularly London), cause it had so many classical elements. Obviously many other links exists as well].
A final of the main parameters would be historical friction, moreso if it is very recent. Look at Kosovo or Fyrom.
I think that just about any state with a reasonably democratic mindset can have a significant percentage of people from other cultural backgrounds (something like <10%, not something like >30%). But no state can exist if the other ethnic groups tend to form ghettos and live outside of the rest of society, for whatever reason (either due to hostility from other groups there, or their own mindset of being an island of their own culture).
Moreover (obviously) some compatibility of culture always goes a long way to help the society function, even with a large group of other ethnic groups. Some example would be Greek and Armenian people, who have a long history of co-existing in various parts of the med. Even today there is a considerable armenian community in some cities here (my own city is one of them), and there surely never was any issue of discrimination or seclusion of that group.
[A different example could be compatible euro cultures, i recall that i felt quite at home with the main architecture in England (particularly London), cause it had so many classical elements. Obviously many other links exists as well].
A final of the main parameters would be historical friction, moreso if it is very recent. Look at Kosovo or Fyrom.
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