Bug reports and technical issues

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

You wouldn’t define San Francisco as a Confucian city – you would define it as a Protestant city in the game.

Lol no.

As a local, I can attest that San Francisco is vastly diverse with regard to religion.
Catholicism is more predominant in its presence than Protestantism on top of that.
You should visit Grace Cathedral and a number of the more prominent churches to see firsthand about what I'm talking about.
But really, from Hinduism, Islam, Taoism, Buddhism, Catholicism, Judaism, Protestantism and yes, Scientology; San Francisco is a very religiously syncretic city.

 

[The Southerner]

Lol no.

As a local, I can attest that San Francisco is vastly diverse with regard to religion.
Catholicism is more predominant in its presence than Protestantism on top of that.
You should visit Grace Cathedral and a number of the more prominent churches to see firsthand about what I'm talking about.
But really, from Hinduism, Islam, Taoism, Buddhism, Catholicism, Judaism, Protestantism and yes, Scientology; San Francisco is a very religiously syncretic city.

I didn't mean to offend. How can I put it ... when you reach 2000 in DoC is every religion present in every city on the map?

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

I didn't mean to offend. How can I put it ... when you reach 2000 in DoC is every religion present in every city on the map?

None taken. Keep in mind though that Catholicism was the dominant religion in San Francisco since its founding
(it was a Spanish city after all) and that it's still persistent under U.S. control right now (albeit to a lesser degree).

 

[iOnlySignIn]

Ever wondered why is there a Chinatown in every major city? Those folks just keep practising their religion! Perhaps it even has to do something with American UP!

Just curious. How many religious Chinese people do you know? Except Christians, of course. And no, materialism is not a religion.

 

[The Southerner]

None taken. Keep in mind though that Catholicism was the dominant religion in San Francisco since its founding
(it was a Spanish city after all) and that it's still persistent under U.S. control right now (albeit to a lesser degree).

Of course it should be Catholic - Jesus wept - I'm writing these posts too quickly without thinking them through. I'd better self-flagellate.

The possible spread of a religion to a city should obviously be dictated by its current or historical significance in real life. If you think San Francisco has a significant population of Confucians then by all means it should be possible for Confucianism to spread there! I don’t however think that Washington DC or Guatemala City does – and therfore Confucianism should have an extremely low chance to spread there (apart from other Alt History factors that could be in play) - although I am an ignorant piece of racist cane trash!

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Of course it should be Catholic - Jesus wept - I'm writing these posts too quickly without thinking them through. I'd better self-flagellate.

The possible spread of a religion to a city should obviously be dictated by its current or historical significance in real life. If you think San Francisco has a significant population of Confucians then by all means it should be possible for Confucianism to spread there! I don’t however think that Washington DC or Guatemala City does – and therfore Confucianism should have an extremely low chance to spread there (apart from other Alt History factors that could be in play) - although I am an ignorant piece of racist cane trash!

Confucianism isn't a religion either.
It's hard to really categorize it, but it's more of a model of social structures and rules as opposed to a religion.
The only reason why it's included as a religion is because it has an all-encompassing effect on East Asian societies
the same way that Abrahamic religions have affected the societies of the Western world.
Apart from China, most of East Asia would be culturally unrecognizable if Confucianism did not play a role in their development.

 

[The Southerner]

The question is - Does Confucianism as defined in DoC belong in Washington DC and Guatemala City in 1812? I think it does not. Does Buddhism belong in Stockholm, or Islam in Oslo or Berlin, or Zoroastrianism in Warsaw, in DoC, at any time in history (up to 2013 as we don't know what the future holds). No. It would be ridiculously historically inaccurate.

My opinion is that DoC should be programmed to allow virtually no chance of non-historical religions spreading to cities.

Confucianism does not belong in Washington DC or Guatamala City. There is NO PLACE for this religion (as it's defined in DoC) in these two cities (and many others) This in NO WAY reflects my personal religious or cultural beliefs.

 

[Leoreth]

So many abhorrent things in this mod lately.

 

[apenpaap]

DoC does not simulate history exactly, and Confucianism spreading to Guatemala and Washington is hardly such a big deal; apparently they received a lot of Chinese immigrants in this version of history. It's certainly not more ahistorical than Prussia owning all of Germany in the 18th century or the Roman empire spreading into Iberia before their kings have even been overthrown.

 

[The Southerner]

So many abhorrent things in this mod lately.

Isn't it just vile Leoreth - this proliferation of abhorrence?

 

[The Southerner]

DoC does not simulate history exactly, and Confucianism spreading to Guatemala and Washington is hardly such a big deal; apparently they received a lot of Chinese immigrants in this version of history. It's certainly not more ahistorical than Prussia owning all of Germany in the 18th century or the Roman empire spreading into Iberia before their kings have even been overthrown.

Of course it doesn't simulate history exactly... but it attempts to simulate and stimulate history.

It's a big deal to me pal - let me tell you. I'm new to this forum and have seemingly wasted a fair amount of time posting my opinions today. I think it's a hell of a lot more ahistorical to have "that religion" spread to the aforementioned cities than mighty Prussia owning all of Germany or the superbly well organised Roman Empire spreading into the Iberian peninsula. If "that religion" ever appears in either of those cities when I play DoC I'll edited it out using WB - straight off the bat.

 

[apenpaap]

Well, Prussia was not that mighty at all yet in the early 18th century; certainly not enough to control all of Germany; and similarly, Rome under the kings wasn't well-organised, and was a tiny city-state dominated by the surrounding Etruscans anyway, certainly not an empire that could've spread all the way into Iberia yet. And there's far bigger ahistorical events in DoC: Ming China never respawning after the Mongols take over China, or if they do being pitifully weak the rest of the game, the Mughal Empire appearing without the Chagatai Khanate ever invading India. I really don't see the big deal of a religion spreading a little ahistorically.

 

[Leoreth]

Isn't it just vile Leoreth - this proliferation of abhorrence?

Yes, we all should protest by randomly typing words in capital letters.

 

[Tigranes]

Just curious. How many religious Chinese people do you know? Except Christians, of course. And no, materialism is not a religion.

One can practise filial piety as religion. The entire Chinese medicine is a mix of natural and spiritual and we can continue like this. The trust in state and fatherly ruler can also be practised religiously. As someone here said ones you leave the realm of Abrahamic religions things become very vague.

Hans Küng, President of the Foundation for a Global Ethic, once gave a lecture in our University. He was talking about difficulties he encountered when drafting a document for his Foundation, which unites clergy of most major religions. Buddhist declined to sign even the preambular which was affirming the Foundation's believe in Almighty Creator. ANother words had to be chosen.

 

[Tigranes]

Yes, we all should protest by randomly typing words in capital letters.

Something unholy is going on with 1800ish Mexico Wonders... I did not move a finger -- and suddenly my Mexico City completed Aztec's Wonder. I mean, it was not there when I started the game! And then ... then I discovered that Apostolic Palace is still available in 1820! Holy See departed from Old World and now when Pope addresses Urbi et Orbi , Urbi is Mexico City !

 

[Leoreth]

Something unholy is going on with 1800ish Mexico Wonders... I did not move a finger -- and suddenly my Mexico City completed Aztec's Wonder. I mean, it was not there when I started the game! And then ... then I discovered that Apostolic Palace is still available in 1820! Holy See departed from Old World and now when Pope addresses Urbi et Orbi , Urbi is Mexico City !

Yeah, Mexico gets the Floating Gardens for free so the capital UHV goal is easier.

 

[Krugi]

Does Buddhism belong in Stockholm, or Islam in Oslo or Berlin

Why, I'd venture to say that they do. You've never been to Berlin, have you? As for Oslo, more than half the Muslims of Norway live there, making up 1% of Norway's population in total.

My opinion is that DoC should be programmed to allow virtually no chance of non-historical religions spreading to cities.

This is already the case since vanilla RFC: the passive spread of religion to a city is modified by the civ that controls it. Confucianism, for example, has terrible modifiers for non-Chinese cities. If I remember correctly (probably not), it spreads five times more slowly, whereas Christianity usually spreads up to six or eight times faster than in vanilla BtS.

Your opinion agrees with the in-game situation, but you complain about how the in-game situation doesn't represent your opinion.

 

[soul-breathing]

Two bugs about UHV in v1.11

First about Mexican UHV3, Ciudad de Mexico has become the largest city in 1960, but next turn it fails.

Spoiler :

Second about France UHV3 in Scenerio AD1700, have built the 4 wonders but still "not yet", I think it is because of Notre Dame and Versailles are preplaced in Paris, but not "built".

 

[Leoreth]

Are you sure another city did not overtake Mexico City in that turn?

You're right about France though.

 

[The Southerner]

Why, I'd venture to say that they do. You've never been to Berlin, have you? As for Oslo, more than half the Muslims of Norway live there, making up 1% of Norway's population in total.

This is already the case since vanilla RFC: the passive spread of religion to a city is modified by the civ that controls it. Confucianism, for example, has terrible modifiers for non-Chinese cities. If I remember correctly (probably not), it spreads five times more slowly, whereas Christianity usually spreads up to six or eight times faster than in vanilla BtS.

Your opinion agrees with the in-game situation, but you complain about how the in-game situation doesn't represent your opinion.

How I see religion in DoC may be different to how you and some other people see it. To me a religion present in a city, or the chance of a religion spreading to a city indicates that the religion has historical and cultural significance IRL in that city at that point in time. I’ve used the example of 1812AD – I began a game as Argentina and saw that Guatemala City and Washington DC had Confucianism present (along with Catholicism and Protestantism respectively). To me in 1812AD Confucianism had no historical or cultural significance in either of those cities. Nor Berlin, or Oslo, etc, in 1812AD. My view is that the chances of Confucianism, Islam, etc, spreading to “most” predominately Christian cities (and vice versa) in DoC before certain dates should be reduced to virtually no chance using the game mechanics (as you mention above).
You refer to the percentage of people in a city (or country) that practice a religion being a good indicator of whether a religion should be present in a city or have the good change of spreading here in DoC - generally I agree. As an example - at what point in time did the historical and cultural significant of Islam become important enough IRL for Islam to be present in Oslo in DoC? I’m not going to research it now – let’s say (and honestly I have no idea) that immigration to Oslo of practising Muslims began the in the 1970’s – therefore in DoC the chances of Islam spreading to Oslo should greatly improve from say 1975 onwards? Do you see my point? I’ve played RFC games where Buddhism has been present in Stockholm and Islam present in Oslo in 1000AD – this is ridiculous to me. I don’t want to play a game with that level of alt history – that’s why I play DoC.

I live in Brisbane - a city of about two million people on the east coast of Australia – I drive past a Taoist temple on my way to and from work each day, friends of mine were “married” at a Buddhist temple (and an Anglican cathedral), my city has a Chinatown and a culturally significant Chinese population and a Chinese temple that was built in the late 1800’s. There are a few Mosques, Hindu places of worship and Orthodox churches in the city as well as Catholic churches and a cathedral. I used to work with a family of Zoroastrians. By the way I see DoC then Brisbane should be founded by the English – have Protestantism spread the next turn along with Catholicism. I would not have any of the other religions from DoC present in the city or have the chance of spreading there until 2013 at least (we don’t know what the future holds) – they are not historically or culturally significant enough as far as DoC is concerned .