Bush gets shoes thrown at him in Iraq

[RedRalph]

I'm still amazed that shoes symbolize "contempt and dirt", since shoes are what protect your feet from filth and dirt. It seems to me like you are scorning the very thing that helps protect you against illness. Throwing anything at someone is still insulting, but it would be more like throwing a bottle of antibiotics at someone rather than throwing a dirty cow pattie... Hyperbolic analogy, I admit, but I'm trying really hard (and utterly failing) to understand why a shoe is so demeaned, considering its practicalness.

A clean, well maintained shoe or boot is an invaluable tool to keep your feet healthy. It's still an insult to the person you throw your shoe at, but it seems to have a different sub-meaning in the "oriental tradition".

Try applying the same principle to toilet roll

 

[MobBoss]

That wasn't a troll. He could just as easily have been talking to you.

Of course it was a troll. It didnt add anything at all to the conversation at hand, could have been sent PM, directly false, and was something derogatory to another member of the OT, namely me.

It's obvious to some that you're right

If you care to read again, thats not what RRW said.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Do you think all wars are equally brutal?

Equal as far as the people who die and suffer are concerned. Do you think it's any consolation to someone bleeding out from a gunshot wound in small war that at least they didn't get napalmed or gassed in a more brutal war?

Or do you agree the German conquest of Poland and the USSR, for instance were significantly less brutal than their conquest of france in WW2? Or are both equal to you?

Then it's about people and methods rather than the weapons being used? I agree.

 

[Murky]

I'm still amazed that shoes symbolize "contempt and dirt", since shoes are what protect your feet from filth and dirt. It seems to me like you are scorning the very thing that helps protect you against illness. Throwing anything at someone is still insulting, but it would be more like throwing a bottle of antibiotics at someone rather than throwing a dirty cow pattie... Hyperbolic analogy, I admit, but I'm trying really hard (and utterly failing) to understand why a shoe is so demeaned, considering its practicalness.

A clean, well maintained shoe or boot is an invaluable tool to keep your feet healthy. It's still an insult to the person you throw your shoe at, but it seems to have a different sub-meaning in the "oriental tradition".

Shoes aren't clean. Try examining some old sneakers under a microscope. In point of fact, a person that wears the same shoes day after day can develop more foot problems than a barefooted kid in Africa.

 

[MobBoss]

Killing civilians is horrible either way. but I'd take instant death over burning or chocking any day.

A suicide bomb filled with nails and other debris doesnt always result in 'instant death'.

 

[RedRalph]

Equal as far as the people who die and suffer are concerned. Do you think it's any consolation to someone bleeding out from a gunshot wound in small war that at least they didn't get napalmed or gassed in a more brutal war?



Then it's about people and methods rather than the weapons being used? I agree.

It's no consolation but surely you can agree, yes or no, that there are utterly horrendous ways to die and then ways that just arent as bad. I think we pretty much get eachother except you are differenciating the weapon and the method a lot. I think the weapon is a huge part of the method.

 

[RedRalph]

A suicide bomb filled with nails and other debris doesnt always result in 'instant death'.

True. I never said it did. What's your point?

 

[MobBoss]

True. I never said it did. What's your point?

Point is, dying in war can be pretty much painfull and horrific regardless of the method used. Its actually kind of the point.

Shouldnt war BE as painful and horrific as possible? If it were, perhaps people wouldnt be so quick to engage in it eh?

 

[RedRalph]

Point is, dying in war can be pretty much painfull and horrific regardless of the method used. Its actually kind of the point.

Shouldnt war BE as painful and horrific as possible? If it were, perhaps people wouldnt be so quick to engage in it eh?

Not really MB, do some ameateur psychology. Dying of a gunshot wound to the temple is going to be a hell of a lot less horrific than being burned alive in a tank. and telling everyone "hey, from now on the only way you can die in a war is to be shot dead in an instant" wouldnt encourage more wars.

what a bizarre mentality you have.

 

[Phlegmak]

I think that's one of the fallacies of modern military policy. They somehow think killing someone nicely isn't quite so ghastly as using other methods.

I can't disagree more with your premise. You're saying all deaths are equal. That can't be more false.

 

[MobBoss]

Not really MB, do some ameateur psychology. Dying of a gunshot wound to the temple is going to be a hell of a lot less horrific than being burned alive in a tank.

Actually, RRW, one of the worst and most painful ways to die is to be shot in the gut.

and telling everyone "hey, from now on the only way you can die in a war is to be shot dead in an instant" would encourage more wars.

what a bizarre mentality you have.

You utterly and totally didnt comprehend my point.

 

[RedRalph]

Actually, RRW, one of the worst and most painful ways to die is to be shot in the gut.



You utterly and totally didnt comprehend my point.

Thats a bit rich considering you appear to have hallucinated the word "gut" over part of my my post which read "temple" try again.

as for the seocnd point, thats a typo and should read "wouldnt". Will edit.

 

[JollyRoger]

Shouldnt war BE as painful and horrific as possible? If it were, perhaps people wouldnt be so quick to engage in it eh?

So the guy should have done more than merely throw a pair of shoes at Bush? Increase the pain on a warmonger?

 

[Murky]

I can't disagree more with your premise. You're saying all deaths are equal. That can't be more false.

I'm not saying that all deaths are equal, but dead is dead just the same.

You cannot wage a war without political consequences just because of the way you go about it.

 

[LucyDuke]

Of course it was a troll. It didnt add anything at all to the conversation at hand, could have been sent PM, directly false, and was something derogatory to another member of the OT, namely me.

It could've been more diplomatic, but I don't think it was troll material. You should probably report it and let the mods rule on that.

It absolutely contributed to the conversation, namely by calling out the pointlessness of the conversation's continuance.

You might be stuck on the word "this", but outside of that, the sentiment applies to a billion other OT tiffs and isn't attacking anyone.

It's just all-around good guidance.

(Don't demean yourself with the victim gig. You know you're above that.)

If you care to read again, thats not what RRW said.

Yes, he said "this", because it's obvious to him that you're wrong. He's not making any effort to be disinterested. It does not detract from the more generalized message.

 

[MobBoss]

Thats a bit rich considering you appear to have hallucinated the word "gut" over part of my my post which read "temple" try again.

What...now you get to pick and choose where you get shot? Please.

 

[MobBoss]

It could've been more diplomatic, but I don't think it was troll material. You should probably report it and let the mods rule on that.

It absolutely contributed to the conversation, namely by calling out the pointlessness of the conversation's continuance.

Only on one side of that conversation.

And lucy, as this is OT to the topic, you yourself are approaching tolling on this as well. Its not your arguement to make, so why inject yourself into it?

You might be stuck on the word "this", but outside of that, the sentiment applies to a billion other OT tiffs and isn't attacking anyone.

I see it as a bit more specific than that.

 

[holy king]

you're quite thin-skinned for being a tough, army strong guy.

 

[RedRalph]

What...now you get to pick and choose where you get shot? Please.

Oh FFS... right. Read this post and get it through your thick head:

It would be better to be shot in the temple than burned alive.

thats what I'm saying. not "you can choose where ot be shot" or "being gutshot isnt painful". read it again. comprehend it. stop arguing a point I havent made.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

Shoes aren't clean. Try examining some old sneakers under a microscope. In point of fact, a person that wears the same shoes day after day can develop more foot problems than a barefooted kid in Africa.

Yeah, I know. Shoes, computer keyboards, door knobs, TP, hand towels, etc. They all aren't clean if they aren't taken care of. (Now TP you just dispose of, but the others you have to sanitize, spray, wipe down, wash, blow out, etc.)

And who wears the same pair of shoes two days in a row? 48 hours to dry out minimum, and rotate out dirtier shoes for spraying, waxing and washing. When I was younger, I had a favorite pair of shoes. I used to try to wear them every day and ran into foot problems fast. That's not how you are supposed to wear shoes anyway...

edit - Reading this, I look seriously sheltered. I wear a professional engineer look, essentially business casual, assuming the way I take care of my clothes is normal. While the talk follows a serious tack, murder, war, etc., I fixate on what shoes symbolize to people halfway around the world. I take my inability to understand back.