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Man Murders Nine in Charleston Church

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Cheezy the Wiz, Jun 18, 2015.

  1. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

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    You're not wrong, but it's a secondary issue in the context of contemporary civil rights.

    As a white man, the endorsement of slavery in that flag offends me but doesn't frighten me. However, as a Northerner, the display of the Confederate flag by a Southerner communicates to me that they could shoot me, in defense of things up to and including the utterly loathesome, if it suited them. I wouldn't expect a 21st-Century Southerner to endorse slavery, per se, but rather that "celebrating their heritage" includes - not just coincidentally, but specifically - killing people like me.

    Like I say, I'm willing to have my own concerns take a back seat to those of black people when it comes to issues surrounding the display of the Confederate flag. But if we can allow ourselves to have a list of issues longer than 1 item, those flags are an undisguised "up yours" to everyone north of Virginia, and I don't think I would feel very welcome in the South.
     
  2. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    I think many areas of the south now are predominantly American. The holdout areas with their loser flag flying and uncertainty about having lost their war are getting further and further dispersed. So you might find it less unwelcoming than you expect.
     
  3. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    If you mean could the flag could be properly used as a symbol of secession and treason against the US, I suppose so. But they still run the risk of being labeled racists.

    But lets not forget there is only one reason why the South seceded from the North. That the states' rights they actually wanted and were likely to soon be denied was actually just one issue: slavery. So it is in no way a secondary issue. It is the entire reason for the war. This doesn't magically change the moment they declared war on the North to be something else, as so many try to argue.

    Those living in the South could have certainly decided to not fight their own country. Many did.

    Southern Unionist

     
  4. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

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    That would be nice. I've always wanted to visit. Southern rock. Southern barbeque. Women with Southern accents. :yumyum: From up here, I have no idea how prevalent the Confederate flag really is, but it sure seems like it's plastered all over everything. None of the Southerners I've known have been flag-wavin' or Yankee-hatin', but they've all been Southerners who moved up North or out West for one reason or another, so I figured by definition they weren't typical Southerners.
     
  5. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    No, it is an oddity now in many of the states. I haven't seen a Confederate flag or a Confederate belt buckle in years. But then again, I don't hang out in places where it is likely to be seen either.
     
  6. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    :confused::confused::confused::confused:

    Please explain this, because I see zero connection between the balance of black vs white deaths and whether that war was over slavery.

    Who was supposed to be killing the black people: the slavers? The people ending slavery?
     
  7. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    Its like how C_H posts unsupported but provocative statements about black on white crime in threads about police shootings. The strangest things can seem relevant to some.
     
  8. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    I was answering Forma's point that the flag is the 'battle' flag and not the 'actual confederate states' flag, and i just meant that if the flag shamed is the "BATTLE" flag then it is an emblem tied primarily to the actual WAR, during which one has to suppose that mostly 'white' people were being killed (due to the war), and thus slavery was not the worst going on anyway, in the South or elsewhere.

    But the point itself was that it doesn't seem very logical to focus on the flag being the 'battle' flag when it has by now become a symbol of Dixieland and not just the civil war.
     
  9. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    I agree the "battle" part is not terribly relevant, but it is still interesting symbolically that the battle flag was chosen when folks were fighting against racial integration.

    Remember "the actual WAR" was fought for a reason, to perpupuate slavery, so the battle flag originally re[resented killing in the name of perpetuating slavery.

    And it does beg the question: what's worse, people being enslaved, or the deaths of those seeking to keep them enslaved?
     
  10. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    ^Maybe though the battle flag survived due to just looking a lot cooler than the other ones? :)

    A bit similar to how the Greek flag used is actually the Greek NAVAL flag.
     
  11. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    Without a doubt.
     
  12. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    Well that depends on your perspective right? I mean what you say is kind of like claiming "The Greek genocide was not the worst thing going on during World War I"... I'm sure the people suffering and dying under the genocide would disagree right?
     
  13. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    In any case the Battle-Flag v. National-Flag distinction is trivial history-nerd stuff. It really isn't relevant in the way you suggest (ie ..."Since its the "battle" flag, its current use is focused on/related to battle").

    Everyone in the US understands that when people say "Confederate Flag", they are talking about the one with the big blue "X"(st andrew's cross). Some more trivial history-nerd stuff (if you are interested) ...The "National-Flag", nicknamed "The Stars-and-Bars" was reviled by southerners and they quickly abandoned it in favor of the "Battle-Flag" set in the corner of a white retangular field... so again, the distinction that you are trying to make just isn't there, because for much of the war the "battle flag", at least a version of it, was the Official National Flag of the Confederacy.
     
  14. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    You mean using FBI statistics on crime? They show that Blacks are more likely to die by the hand of blacks and when there is interracial violent crime the victim is more like to be white and the offender is black. If you have an issue with the statistics, take it up with the FBI.
    http://www.infowars.com/black-crime-facts-that-the-white-liberal-media-darent-talk-about/
    You can see that blacks are both disproportionally both the victims and the offenders. One good thing is that the overall homicide rate is falling, but still disproportionally black are the highest offenders and victims of homicide.
     
  15. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    But CH, that isn't a link to any statistics. It's an article on noted nutcase Alex Jones website trying to blame black people as a whole for some getting shot. Also much sleight of hand confusing frequencies and proportions.
     

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