C2C Balance Thread

[LumenAngel]

About religion balance, why yoruba temple (Pattaky of Ollofin) is so expensive? he cost 50% more than Asatru temple and come earlier... yes, the +25% is big, but mainly too big for a normal ancient building.
Why not make it like others temple, and keep the higher cost and bonus from special Yoruba building?

Today, Yoruba is not a very good religion may you have it, and become really good when you have enough production to build the temples, late classical/medieval era

 

[ls612]

About religion balance, why yoruba temple (Pattaky of Ollofin) is so expensive? he cost 50% more than Asatru temple and come earlier... yes, the +25% is big, but mainly too big for a normal ancient building.
Why not make it like others temple, and keep the higher cost and bonus from special Yoruba building?

Today, Yoruba is not a very good religion may you have it, and become really good when you have enough production to build the temples, late classical/medieval era

That may or may not be a bug, you'd have to ask DH.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

About religion balance, why yoruba temple (Pattaky of Ollofin) is so expensive? he cost 50% more than Asatru temple and come earlier... yes, the +25% is big, but mainly too big for a normal ancient building.
Why not make it like others temple, and keep the higher cost and bonus from special Yoruba building?

Today, Yoruba is not a very good religion may you have it, and become really good when you have enough production to build the temples, late classical/medieval era

It is as it was since AAranda made it for RoM 2 all hose years ago. I don't think anyone has used it as their state religion and reported on it. Three "temple" buildings seem to cost a lot more than others but that may because they also allow you to build missionaries.

 

[LumenAngel]

It is as it was since AAranda made it for RoM 2 all hose years ago. I don't think anyone has used it as their state religion and reported on it. Three "temple" buildings seem to cost a lot more than others but that may because they also allow you to build missionaries.

Oo
I m the only one using Yoruba nearly all game as stat religion?
The special building ar trully overpowereful, even if you cant build them in all your cities, in a very huge map, it's in 1 on 2, not 1 on 4 (or 1 on 16 for the best) like Shamanism and Druidism
I dont see religions as a system of belief, but as a way to improved my cities.
The special building give

• +3, +5% , +10% , -10% maintenance
• +1 , +1 , +5% , +10% , +10% military production
• +1 , +5% +5% with clams, crab, fish, pearls
• +1 , +5% +5% , and , with deer

If you have deer and some sea ressource, it's just the best! A city with all building have (in ancien era if you manage to build them) +45%, +7, +25% , +5% , +5% , -10% maintenance, +10% military production if you have deers, clams, crab, fish and pearls (not impssible to have)
I just change to kemetism to build at least national wonders and asatru to have Thor santuary if no one build it^^

I m not sure it s the normal way to play, but it's mine

 

[Thunderbrd]

I've played with Yoruba quite a bit. All those religious buildings make for a rather nice religion selection when you pick up those wonders that add a , , , or :research: per religious building.

I stopped using it as a priority though when I realized its only really useful if its the state religion. Otherwise its a pain, as many religions are, to spread and you need to select it as the state religion for at least a while to build out its buildings. Other religions are also far stronger militarily, Asatru, Confucianism, Taoism, and Mesopotamianism, Ngaism, so those take priority for me in use. And Scientology is so powerful with gold, and Voodoo so strong in production that those two are right up there with Asatru and Confucianism in value. For me, Yoruba, as good as it can be, tends to fall by the wayside, especially if I don't have deer.

 

[LumenAngel]

Mespotamism and Ngaiisme are good too as state religion. Mainly because their true power are not in some World wonder, so you can still have it even if others civ take them as state religions.
i m agree voodoo is good, but you dont need to put it as state religion to have all the good buildings, so it's often my "second religion".

But even if I count World Wonder, Asatru is not so good (and nearly useless after humanism), and taoïsm just give a promotion you can have with Dojo.

I prefer have has a state religion something giving to lot of my cities something more.
I think all religion must have 2 or 3 building (or "building" like Yoruba, Pattaky are not true buildings) only if it's your state religion, giving you moere bonus related with this religion (like Thor Altar, Nature Legacy, Pataky of Olokun, ...) and make them unactive if you change your state religion. because éwaste" 60 turns in Asatru to build Thor Sanctuary still worthi it, and I dont think it's really realistic...

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

... and make them unactive if you change your state religion....

Can't be done currently. You can't deactivate buildings by religion you can only stop them being built.

 

[AIAndy]

Can't be done currently. You can't deactivate buildings by religion you can only stop them being built.

Would be something useful to add though (more generic than just deactivating by religion though).

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Would be something useful to add though (more generic than just deactivating by religion though).

There is already this function for civics. There is two types religion present in city and state religion. The first would simplify Inquasitions I expect.

 

[Koshling]

There is already this function for civics. There is two types religion present in city and state religion. The first would simplify Inquasitions I expect.

Same for promotions - those tagged as requiring state religion will be lost from units that have them when you switch.

 

[Sgtslick]

Oo

Spoiler :

I m the only one using Yoruba nearly all game as stat religion?
The special building ar trully overpowereful, even if you cant build them in all your cities, in a very huge map, it's in 1 on 2, not 1 on 4 (or 1 on 16 for the best) like Shamanism and Druidism

I dont see religions as a system of belief, but as a way to improved my cities.
The special building give

• +3, +5% , +10% , -10% maintenance
• +1 , +1 , +5% , +10% , +10% military production
• +1 , +5% +5% with clams, crab, fish, pearls
• +1 , +5% +5% , and , with deer

Spoiler :

If you have deer and some sea ressource, it's just the best! A city with all building have (in ancien era if you manage to build them) +45%, +7, +25% , +5% , +5% , -10% maintenance, +10% military production if you have deers, clams, crab, fish and pearls (not impssible to have)
I just change to kemetism to build at least national wonders and asatru to have Thor santuary if no one build it^^

I m not sure it s the normal way to play, but it's mine

I really wish someone would go through ALL the religious buildings with a nerf hammer and squash them down to size. These bonuses are just crazy big. Also there should be a big penalty for switching state religions - so to avoid people switching in order to unlock more buildings.

At least give the buildings some penalties or something..

 

[AIAndy]

I really wish someone would go through ALL the religious buildings with a nerf hammer and squash them down to size. These bonuses are just crazy big. Also there should be a big penalty for switching state religions - so to avoid people switching in order to unlock more buildings.

At least give the buildings some penalties or something..

I guess more effects should be bound to it being the state religion (or at least a part of the religious effect).

 

[wolfensoul9]

Once you get a huge several hundred turn long golden age during the late classical (not so hard to do on eternity), your civ starts getting exponentially better with all the religious buildings you found. Just build em all up for one, switch to a different religion, with almost no penalties for doing so, and build all the ones for the that one. Rinse, repeat, and reap, reap, reap.

Frankly, it's a bit overpowered. I think the religious wonders should definitely lose their effects if their associated religion is not your current state one. Frankly, I was stunned when I realized this wasn't the case. Perhaps remove the science bonus for all non-state religion monastaries?

Something needs to be nerfed.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Once you get a huge several hundred turn long golden age during the late classical..

This is a fault frm using the slower gamespeeds. On Epic a Golden age last 14 turns. On Normal they last 8. If Eternity lasts "several hundred" then Eternity needs "fixed".

JosEPh

 

[strategyonly]

This is a fault frm using the slower gamespeeds. On Epic a Golden age last 14 turns. On Normal they last 8. If Eternity lasts "several hundred" then Eternity needs "fixed".

JosEPh

I dont believe any Golden Age should be more than 50 maximum, anyone else???

 

[wolfensoul9]

What?! Aw, please don't take out the stacking golden ages. Getting a five hundred turn long golden age is one of the best parts about this mod. And Joseph, it's not a fault. If you play a game that has five times as many turns, then you get a golden age that lasts five times as long. It's only fair.

You hate arbitrary constraints, and reducing the amount of turns golden ages last on eternity to fifty, when mathematically they should be the 64 they currently are, is as arbitrary as they come.

Seriously, manipulating the great people and golden-age enhancing wonders to get hundreds and hundreds of turns of golden age was like the highlight of my last play.

When I said something needed to be nerfed, I didn't mean the freaking golden ages...sheesh... I mean, heck, with the new normal being what...like 1000 turns? The golden age for eternity should be BUFFED to 112, right? Standard civ has 8 turns of golden for a 500 turn long game, too. So they should be even longer, unless the dev team comes to a consensus that the original baseline is too generous, which I strongly disagree with.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'm quite happy with the current golden age lengths.

 

[wolfensoul9]

Speaking of the different speeds, and balancing...there's something that's been bothering me for awhile.

Why doesn't the team simply focus on balancing normal? Shouldn't what's balanced for normal be balanced for all speeds? Forgive me if that is ignorant, but I've always wondered why it always seems like "oh yes, this speed is balanced, but not this speed.", and that just doesn't make any sense to me. The speeds are just more turns. Everything should be equally increased, a game that takes twice as long will have double the production costs, tech times, etc. So how is it that one speed can be balanced, and not the other, unless the costs of tech and buildings are not porportional?

It just seems like it'd be so much easier if the team just focused on balancing normal, mostly because then, they could quickly get to the later periods, to finally balance those as well.

I just don't get how one speed can be more balanced than the other, unless the porportions of costs are not equivilant to the porportions of turns, and shouldn't that be a simple excercise?

Again, I am very ignorant on these matters, so feel free to correct me.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I really wish someone would go through ALL the religious buildings with a nerf hammer and squash them down to size. These bonuses are just crazy big. Also there should be a big penalty for switching state religions - so to avoid people switching in order to unlock more buildings.

At least give the buildings some penalties or something..

The religions are doing what they were designed to do. People who are not changing religion now an then are not playing them as intended. You should be changing religion about half as often as you change civics or at last that was true when we had the old RoM civics system.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Speaking of the different speeds, and balancing...there's something that's been bothering me for awhile.

Why doesn't the team simply focus on balancing normal? Shouldn't what's balanced for normal be balanced for all speeds? Forgive me if that is ignorant, but I've always wondered why it always seems like "oh yes, this speed is balanced, but not this speed.", and that just doesn't make any sense to me. The speeds are just more turns. Everything should be equally increased, a game that takes twice as long will have double the production costs, tech times, etc. So how is it that one speed can be balanced, and not the other, unless the costs of tech and buildings are not porportional?

It just seems like it'd be so much easier if the team just focused on balancing normal, mostly because then, they could quickly get to the later periods, to finally balance those as well.

I just don't get how one speed can be more balanced than the other, unless the porportions of costs are not equivilant to the porportions of turns, and shouldn't that be a simple excercise?

Again, I am very ignorant on these matters, so feel free to correct me.

Normal is fine for a game like Vanilla Civ where there was only around 100 techs where as now we have like 100 tech in each era. Not to mention so many more buildings, resources, units and civics. Even if techs were limited to 1 per turn it would still be too slow for normal speed.

Slowing down the speed and increasing the number of turns allows the player to play the game more like a vanilla civ normal would play. However this means the games are much longer too.

In short you just cannot balance it on normal anymore since there is so much more to fit into the game. Things obsolete too fast and you do not have enough time to build anything.

Think of it like slicing a carrot. Normal speed would be say cutting it into 4 equal size pieces. Each piece works well to play on at that speed for Vanilla Civ. As we add more stuff its like adding more slices of carrot. There is still the same amount of carrot but they are now thinly sliced. Each slice too too thin to enjoy like the large pieces were before. Thus to get our new slices to be that size you need an even larger carrot to slice up so their slices are the same size as the 4 original pieces. Thus the larger carrot is like the slower game speed. You can still enjoy the same size bites but there is that much more carrot too.

I hope that answers your question.