C2C - Civics Discussion Thread

[Hydromancerx]

Ok this is REALLY weird. I opened up my test game and then opened up the civpedia while the game is loaded and ALL the civics are shown. So I closed the game and went back to the main menu and then opened up the civpedia from the main menu and they are GONE!

And to answer your question I only have the C2C MP game in the mod folder since I need that there for the 2 multiplayer games I have been playing. Thus the folder is called "C2C MP" and not "Caveman2Comos".

 

[strategyonly]

Ok this is REALLY weird. I opened up my test game and then opened up the civpedia while the game is loaded and ALL the civics are shown. So I closed the game and went back to the main menu and then opened up the civpedia from the main menu and they are GONE!

And to answer your question I only have the C2C MP game in the mod folder since I need that there for the 2 multiplayer games I have been playing. Thus the folder is called "C2C MP" and not "Caveman2Comos".

You do know that re-naming a folder that isn't the python mod name is not ideal, right?

 

[Hydromancerx]

Well that's what we use. You would think that someone playing either of the 2 the MP games would have the same error. But ls612 said it worked fine for him. And the others have not reported the error either.

 

[strategyonly]

Well that's what we use. You would think that someone playing either of the 2 the MP games would have the same error. But ls612 said it worked fine for him. And the others have not reported the error either.

OK try this, its alittle unconventional, but what the heck:

which ever SVN you are using, delete (regular not SVN delete) complete the XML folder ONLY. Then update your SVN, right away. If that does NOT work then delete ALL the SVN python folder completely and Update right away, etc etc etc, that should work.

 

[Koshling]

Well that's what we use. You would think that someone playing either of the 2 the MP games would have the same error. But ls612 said it worked fine for him. And the others have not reported the error either.

I would likely not notice, since I never open the pedia befor I load the game.

 

[Taxman66]

It would be really, really helpfull if a there was a (very) brief description/mechanic of the special civic buildings in the civic 'rollover' on the choose your civics screen.

One of the most important features of a new civic is the special building(s); and it is very easy to overlook their benefits when trying to decide on switching civics. Often times it appears that advancing to a more modern (i.e. higher tech) civic is actually not worth it. It's not until you learn how good the associated building (e.g. Grand Villa) is to make the apparent increased negatives worth it.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Taxman66

Well the buildings names listed do have hyperlinks to the civpedia.

 

[Taxman66]

I know, but IIRC, I'm not sure the hyperlinks work from that screen. Additionally when rolling over and trying to determine if A is better than B its not really usefull to try and do hyperlinks from A & B.

 

[Hydromancerx]

OK try this, its alittle unconventional, but what the heck:

which ever SVN you are using, delete (regular not SVN delete) complete the XML folder ONLY. Then update your SVN, right away. If that does NOT work then delete ALL the SVN python folder completely and Update right away, etc etc etc, that should work.

I gave up trying to fix it. Its not really hurting anything, and who knows some update might fix the problem eventually. If I can see it in game, then that's all that matters.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@CIVPlayer8,
What's the status of the Civics as a whole? Finished? Still a work in progress?

JosEPh

 

[Hydromancerx]

@CIVPlayer8,
What's the status of the Civics as a whole? Finished? Still a work in progress?

I would say WIP, mainly because he has a lot more stuff in his first post that has not even been implemented yet. Much of which looks very cool!

 

[CIVPlayer8]

I would say WIP, mainly because he has a lot more stuff in his first post that has not even been implemented yet. Much of which looks very cool!

Correct, and as long as new things are added, civics should change also, to keep the balance there. And thanks Hydro.

Okay, I'm working on three categories, one of which is a new one.

Power: How the power of leadership is "shared" with other people/branches.

Spoiler :

-Leaderless: There is no leader, anyone can rise up and take "power"
-Council: A council is put together to pick a new chief/restrict chief in some ways
-Sovereignty: The leader is sovereign, what he says, goes
-Junta: Military controls a big chunk of the government
-Clergy: Organized Religion controls a big chunk of government
-Senate: "Wisest" people in society,who create new laws/limit power of the leader
-Divine Right: Leader has authority given to him/her by heaven
-Parliament: Similar to Senate, but reflects need of the people more
-Separation of Powers: Power is divided between two or more branches of government
-Single Party: The leader has much freedom in his decisions, but must reflect the needs of their Political Party, which is the only party in the country with real power.

Rule: Basic structure of governing your citizens.

Spoiler :

-Obedience: Only thing keeping your people intact is their decision to obey
-City States: Each city has their own separate government Ex: Ancient Greece
-Magistrates: Governors are assigned provinces to rule over, but they report to the leader
-Vassalage: Similar to Magistrates, but they swear an oath of loyalty to you, and their obedience is in line with a code of chivalry usually
-Confederacy: Group of city states/countries band together. No strong executive power
-Federal: Federal/State government each plays a role in ruling
-Martial Law: Lockdown society in order to insure no "crazy" ideas spread, like people wanting to topple your wonderful civilization
-Mind Control: Ordinary people have no more opinions, your opinion is theirs!
-(Am I forgetting some? Ideas? )

Officials: How the "bureaucrats" of the government reach their positions.

Spoiler :

-Strongman: You're in charge if you kill the other person in charge
-Elders: You have power if you're old and wise
-Patronage: The leader gives out positions of power to his friends
-Plutocracy: If you got the , you got tha' power.
-Nobility: A class of people, which is more privileged, hold key government positions
-Meritocracy: If you are smart enough for the job, you get it.
-Bureaucracy: In order to achieve a position in government, you must navigate the maze of the bureaucracy.
-Election: You get elected to your position of power
-Artificial Intelligence: Computers are smarter than all of us, so they should govern us

 

[JosEPh_II]

One question on Military Civics. Can the units produced from Food on Conscription be changed?

Okay 2 questions: What's the idea behind using food on conscription?

(ok 3 ? !!! ) Wouldn't that be better suited to the 1st Mil Civic?

JosEPh

 

[MaXimillionZero]

-Bribery? (Another Word?): If you got the , you got tha' power.

Plutocracy?

 

[CIVPlayer8]

One question on Military Civics. Can the units produced from Food on Conscription be changed?

Okay 2 questions: What's the idea behind using food on conscription?

(ok 3 ? !!! ) Wouldn't that be better suited to the 1st Mil Civic?

JosEPh

Food counting as production... The city size number represents, basically, the working class of that country. Conscription means that all able bodied males in the country serve in the military for X years. For many civilizations throughout history, drafting the young males basically meant taking away the working class. I suppose that's whats represented by Conscription. It makes sense, in a way, to me at least. And Militia just means that the military is at a bare minimum, just enough for self defense. I guess it would fit better with Militia, but it can still work with Conscription I think.
Do you run Conscription often? It trains military much faster, so its not a bad civic, per se.

Plutocracy?

Actually, that fits. Thanks

 

[JosEPh_II]

I used to run Conscription till Standing Army becomes available. But with the Mil units produced by Food in Conscription now I shy away from using it.

JosEPh

 

[Hydromancerx]

Officials: How the "bureaucrats" of the government reach their positions.

Spoiler :

-Strongman: You're in charge if you kill the other person in charge
-Elders: You have power if you're old and wise
-Patronage: The leader gives out positions of power to his friends
-Plutocracy: If you got the , you got tha' power.
-Nobility: A class of people, which is more privileged, hold key government positions
-Meritocracy: If you are smart enough for the job, you get it.
-Election: You get elected to your position of power
-Artificial Intelligence: Computers are smarter than all of us, so they should govern us

I know its not been done before (as far as I know) there should be a "Lottery" choice. Where unlike voting in an election the officials are picked at random from a Lottery.

EDIT: Also where did Bureaucracy civic go? Is it still under "Rule"

 

[Yudishtira]

Conscription means that all able bodied males in the country serve in the military for X years. For many civilizations throughout history, drafting the young males basically meant taking away the working class. I suppose that's whats represented by Conscription. It makes sense, in a way, to me at least.

With respect, (even) 3 years out of a 40+ year working life is a reduction of <10% in the working class, it doesn't take it away. In peacetime, as many people return from military service as go on it.

Wars otoh can of course have an effect on the availability of labour.

 

[LumenAngel]

Power: How the power of leadership is "shared" with other people/branches.
[

Idea :
Corporate. Like clergy, but with corporations instead of church

Rule: Basic structure of governing your citizens.

Idea :
Virtual. Each citizen is able to do a mental vote for each low (Req : Mind reading). it's exactly the opposite of Mind Control


Officials: How the "bureaucrats" of the government reach their positions.

Ideas
Star system. If tou are celeb, you can do it!
Chosen. The Gods chose who can have the job... Tou just have to take the sword of this stone, eg. (Req an ancien/prehistorical religious tech)
Random. The luckiest have the power with a lotery. (seriously, I read it somewhere and some people think that can work) (req... ???)
Hunters. The best hunter can feed the tribe. They have the power

 

[Koshling]

Another thing to consider is direct democracy vs representational democracy. Basically all democracies in eh world today are representational (to a large degree). In a direct democracy the people decide directly on each issue (Calafornia oes somewhat in that direction, but only on a fairly small subset of issues still, compared to the total).

A truly direct democracy is probably only possible with good comms tech (at LEAST where we are today), since enough of the populace have to be engaged to vote on all the issues at a micro-level. This model probably works best (if it works at all) coupled with a lot of local devolvement of power.

The lottery model also only makes sense if you apply it to generate a statistically significant size voting pool. Thus the lottery 'elects' you Congressional body NOT your president. That way the elected body is statistically representative, but bad choices (which obviously are inevitable on an individual level) don't have enough significance to break the result (think of it like Jury selections). Again what you couple it with matters. It probably only works in a situation where the elected body has a strong tradition of making decisions based on 'expert witnesses' for each domain of discussion, otherwise you simply lose all expertise and wind up with amateur-level decision making all the time (again - think of a courtroom - the Jury are the lottery-selected voting body, but expert evidence-presenters are employed)