C2C - Civics Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by EldrinFal, Aug 17, 2011.

  1. CIVPlayer8

    CIVPlayer8 Prince

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    Well, in the prehistoric era, everyone is at war with everyone, so doesn't that kinda reflect this?
    In hindsight, I agree with you on the 10% tax thing. How much tax do you usually run? I don't think it should be much lower than 20% though. Also, I haven't gotten to the Religious civics yet. I'm working on Power/Rule, and then I'll move onto Religion. I haven't changed anything in the Religion category, so it didn't really happen "again". And you really don't think my recent updates have improved? :confused: So many of the civics have had their "fluff" taken away. The Government Civics should have the most "direction" out of all the categories, so I'm sorry if you think they "overlap".
    Thanks for these new buttons Hydro, you're the bomb! :thanx:
    I appreciate your concern Sgtslick, :) but he's just voicing his concerns. Its what I want from you guys.
    Well, to be fair, I have been reducing War :mad: to below 25% for the civics I've touched, and the Religion category is yet to receive its "update".
    Which ones are you referring to? And when you say "simple", do you mean "vanilla simple"?
    Well, yes. Decreased maintenance have given more :gold:. Also, what do you mean "Civic Option"?
    Yes, this is many games. But it is also realistic. I can't think of many ancient civilizations who adopted "Closed Borders". China/Japan, but not many, in the grand scheme of things.
     
  2. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    There are 2 sets of Civic categories that have :mad:/Tax Rate. So 10% in any Group is compounded by the other set. Even 20% can be a compounded problem. Switching to a supposedly better Civic and getting a possible 10 :mad: hammer (100% rate) thrown in the works is crippling. Will the AI do it? Has anyone checked? And how well does REV handle it?

    But hey, there are ppl :cry: ing that there is not enough :mad: in the Mod. :rolleyes: Of course it just Has to go Overboard 1st that's just the "Way It's Done". Argued for Incremental changes for years now. I'm past blue in the face over this aspect.

    Didn't realize that the Religion section was not addressed yet. So I have to hold off on that and wait see.

    But still Despot is a better Gov't Civic than Monarchy, Republic, and Democracy ( I have not researched Federal yet but it shares the same problem(s)).

    Power Civics should not have :mad:/Tax Rate % modifiers at all imho. Eliminate them and the Gov't Civics become more palatable and user friendly (AI and player).

    JosEPh
     
  3. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    I am not one of those, i dont like it, and i agree with you on the 2nd para.;)
     
  4. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

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    Game balance > reality modeling, but for what it's worth I would say that the more democratic/inclusive you society is the LESS unhappiness you should get for a given tax rate, because the people are part of the decision making process that leads to the higher taxes. No taxation withOUT representation and all that!
     
  5. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    Only if you "Start as Minors" otherwise you are at peace with every one. Personally I don't see how you can be at war with others if you don't have the warfare tech. In my games I don't see wars breaking out with anyone until around sedentary lifestyle.
     
  6. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    I see it the opposite. How can you be at peace until you can communicate with other civs? If you cannot conduct diplomacy then there can be no peace and everyone is a possible threat.
     
  7. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    Until you have excess population, you can't afford a war. Loose a few people and your tribe goes extinct.
     
  8. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    I agree with DH.

    JosEPh
     
  9. gunburned

    gunburned Warlord

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    Just curious about how defensive values are set inside cities. I've been presently playing a game and started to fall behind in tech. Upon having war declared I've trained about 20 catapults only to see that the bombard city doesn't reduce the defense of the city even 1%! Now my question is: in future updates will this be changed at all? Or is this working as intended, because surely I should inflict a minimum of 1%. I think the bombard defense values of the cities are too high or perhaps the catapults are too low
     
  10. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    Then don't use minor civs option. I personally love minor civ option.
     
  11. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    Are you saying that the Borders civics should only be showing if you play with the game option minor civs:confused::crazyeye:
     
  12. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    No. They are unrelated. Immigration civic is a whole other issue. Likewise Diplomacy of "Open Borders" and "Right of Passage" are different as well.
     
  13. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    The discussion we were having was about the Immigration civic and how to extend it back in time before 1960!
     
  14. ls612

    ls612 Deity Moderator

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    Before 1900 or so getting from point a to point b was far harder, so there was far less immigration, at least in the modern sense. If we want to talk about invasions and nomad hordes that is another discussion entirely.
     
  15. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    I would have thought that someone living in the Americas would understand about the huge migrations of the 1700-1800's:mischief: and not just the gold rushes. The invasions happened then the immigrants followed soon after. Heck, even the ancient Romans had a policy of settling immigrants in their conquered territories so as to make them Roman. Immigration happens within your nation, between your nation and its colonies or vassals and between nations. The current Immigration civics only look at the modern world view of immigration.
     
  16. ls612

    ls612 Deity Moderator

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    Colonization and immigration are in my mind to separate, though related things.
     
  17. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Which is what I generally do. But you want Everyone to live by the Start as Minor mindset. That's myopic and unbalanced for Civic use.

    JosEPh
     
  18. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    People can choose if they want to have the option checked off or not. As I said before Minor civ is completely separate from the Immigration Civic and the Diplomacy that deals with what units you let in.

    Are you suggesting we have a 3rd option that is like minor civs that make everyone at peace until a later tech? Because I would have no problem with a 3rd choice if you and DH want that. However I have no idea how to mod that myself. So someone else with those skills would have to do it.
     
  19. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    I would not find it particularly fun if Start as Minors was altered... it's balanced the way it is.
     
  20. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I could do that theoretically but I'd not be greatly motivated to. The question would be more, if we implement something that operates off the civic system, would minor civs be able to override it? (not a big fan of minor civs but I can understand those who are...)
     

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