Capto Iugulum
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Jehoshua
Catholic
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2009
- Messages
- 7,284
To: A Certain Insular Imperialist
From: The Holy See
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The Spiritual and the Temporal cannot be separated, for the spiritual is lived in the world just as temporal action affect the spiritual. The idea that these two spheres can be absolutely separated is an error originating the heresy of protestantism, and its doctrine of the two swords. Its no surprise therefore that the imperialistic leviathan of Britain is a protestant state, for in separating the spiritual from the temporal the very ideological errors which fuel your imperialism were spawned.
On Naples, through its actions would see subverted the sacrosanct independence of the Papal States and by proxy the very independence of the Holy Catholic Church that this temporal independence guarantees. Through its support for Italian unification, both originally in the press and now directly in its actions and comments it attacks the Church's independence and this we cannot abide, just as we cannot abide any state that would seek to bring under its hegemony the italian states and suppress their independence (and that is precisely what Naples wants to do, despite its most recent statements that it only meant unification in a collaborative sense).
On Naples, I suggest you take your hypocritical words and speak them to one of the many nations you have brought under your imperialistic oppression. The fate of Naples shal be preferentially determined by those to whom it concerns, the italian states in congress and through dialogue in such an environment, not through the threats of the apostate British state who has no legitimate right to interfere in regional affairs.
We will not vow anything to your regime when its demands come with the threat of a gun.
~ Pope Leo XIV
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To: Genoa
From: The Holy See
Having taken note that you have unfortunately fallen for British Propaganda, the Papal States would like to remind the Government of Genoa that it currently wishes the fate of Naples to be determined by a congress of the Italian States (possibly with Austria as a participant as well). Our preference that Naples is separated into several smaller states that cannot again challenge the peace of Italy though their actions is merely that, a preference. It is hardly a papal order that Naples be "shattered" as Britain erroneously suggests as part of its propaganda to justify its clientage of the Neapolitan State to its sphere of influence, perhaps as part of an attempt to subvert the independence of Italy in its own affairs and establish hegemonic control in the region.
~ Pope Leo XIV
From: The Holy See
-
The Spiritual and the Temporal cannot be separated, for the spiritual is lived in the world just as temporal action affect the spiritual. The idea that these two spheres can be absolutely separated is an error originating the heresy of protestantism, and its doctrine of the two swords. Its no surprise therefore that the imperialistic leviathan of Britain is a protestant state, for in separating the spiritual from the temporal the very ideological errors which fuel your imperialism were spawned.
On Naples, through its actions would see subverted the sacrosanct independence of the Papal States and by proxy the very independence of the Holy Catholic Church that this temporal independence guarantees. Through its support for Italian unification, both originally in the press and now directly in its actions and comments it attacks the Church's independence and this we cannot abide, just as we cannot abide any state that would seek to bring under its hegemony the italian states and suppress their independence (and that is precisely what Naples wants to do, despite its most recent statements that it only meant unification in a collaborative sense).
On Naples, I suggest you take your hypocritical words and speak them to one of the many nations you have brought under your imperialistic oppression. The fate of Naples shal be preferentially determined by those to whom it concerns, the italian states in congress and through dialogue in such an environment, not through the threats of the apostate British state who has no legitimate right to interfere in regional affairs.
We will not vow anything to your regime when its demands come with the threat of a gun.
~ Pope Leo XIV
-
To: Genoa
From: The Holy See
Having taken note that you have unfortunately fallen for British Propaganda, the Papal States would like to remind the Government of Genoa that it currently wishes the fate of Naples to be determined by a congress of the Italian States (possibly with Austria as a participant as well). Our preference that Naples is separated into several smaller states that cannot again challenge the peace of Italy though their actions is merely that, a preference. It is hardly a papal order that Naples be "shattered" as Britain erroneously suggests as part of its propaganda to justify its clientage of the Neapolitan State to its sphere of influence, perhaps as part of an attempt to subvert the independence of Italy in its own affairs and establish hegemonic control in the region.
~ Pope Leo XIV
Joining as Bulgaria
China is free but Russian ally isn't online often
Peru is taken
Bulgaria is free. Reading through History now.
Known so far, War with Roman Empire to gain freedom from collapsing empire. I believe Bulgaria is currently just a Rebellion and thus has no historical pacts or alliances. Please PM or state here anything Foreign Nations wish to be known.
China is free but Russian ally isn't online often
Peru is taken
Bulgaria is free. Reading through History now.
Known so far, War with Roman Empire to gain freedom from collapsing empire. I believe Bulgaria is currently just a Rebellion and thus has no historical pacts or alliances. Please PM or state here anything Foreign Nations wish to be known.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
To: Papal States
From: United Kingdom
If our policy of imperialism is such a wound on this Earth then you had best see to your own wounds for you are assuredly a practitioner. For was it not the Catholic Church that for almost 400 years sponsored the imperialism of mighty Spain? Was it not the Popes of bygone ages who had so approved of Spain and her empire that they gave it the moniker of Holy? Your anti-imperialist rhetoric is hypocritical and disgusting - and this is to say nothing of your blatant attempts to assert your hegemony over Naples. We care not for a united Italy or no, but as we have stated countless times in the past the territorial sovereignty of Naples must go uninfringed. If you are unable or unwilling to acquiesce with this simple request, then we shall see to it by whatever means necessary that this request is followed to the letter.
From: United Kingdom
If our policy of imperialism is such a wound on this Earth then you had best see to your own wounds for you are assuredly a practitioner. For was it not the Catholic Church that for almost 400 years sponsored the imperialism of mighty Spain? Was it not the Popes of bygone ages who had so approved of Spain and her empire that they gave it the moniker of Holy? Your anti-imperialist rhetoric is hypocritical and disgusting - and this is to say nothing of your blatant attempts to assert your hegemony over Naples. We care not for a united Italy or no, but as we have stated countless times in the past the territorial sovereignty of Naples must go uninfringed. If you are unable or unwilling to acquiesce with this simple request, then we shall see to it by whatever means necessary that this request is followed to the letter.
erez87
Lord of Random
- Joined
- May 16, 2002
- Messages
- 13,500
to Papal States:[/i]
Do not insult me. No Propaganda have eaten through me, nor yours nor the British. Naples was not a problem until they declared support for the Nationalistic mob after you demanded they will not have free speech. Naples needs to be dealt with, yes, but we obviously oppose whole heartily your idea of breaking their nation into pieces.
Do not insult me. No Propaganda have eaten through me, nor yours nor the British. Naples was not a problem until they declared support for the Nationalistic mob after you demanded they will not have free speech. Naples needs to be dealt with, yes, but we obviously oppose whole heartily your idea of breaking their nation into pieces.
Jehoshua
Catholic
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2009
- Messages
- 7,284
To: The United Kingdom
From: The Holy See.
The Holy Roman Empire was in Germany and its Emperor through independent agency entered into a personal union. As to imperialism, a predecessor of mine did divide the world between Portugal and Spain in the age of exploration, however you ignore that the Church was aghast at the abominations that occured once colonisation commenced, and opposed the brutal treatment of the natives by Spain during that period. The division was done in ignorance before the horrors of imperialism showed themselves in that era, fortunately though Spain has improved its manner of acting through the influence of the divine religion, where Brittain has only become more Barbaric and more bluntly aggressive to independent states as the years have gone by.
Its interesting though that you must resort to distortion of historic fact in your propaganda, one would almost think you were some sort of police state which would be a further degradation even considering your current modus operandi.
Either way, you can continue with your defence of your neapolitan proxy, the Papal States however will do whatever is necessary to ensure the independence of the other italian states both in terms of sovereignty, and also from the domination of powers such as yourself.
- Pope Leo XIV.
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To Genoa
From the Papal States
Then if the other Italian States concur with your assesment, and if they agree to a congress that outcome will likely be the one that occurs.
Pope Leo XIV
From: The Holy See.
The Holy Roman Empire was in Germany and its Emperor through independent agency entered into a personal union. As to imperialism, a predecessor of mine did divide the world between Portugal and Spain in the age of exploration, however you ignore that the Church was aghast at the abominations that occured once colonisation commenced, and opposed the brutal treatment of the natives by Spain during that period. The division was done in ignorance before the horrors of imperialism showed themselves in that era, fortunately though Spain has improved its manner of acting through the influence of the divine religion, where Brittain has only become more Barbaric and more bluntly aggressive to independent states as the years have gone by.
Its interesting though that you must resort to distortion of historic fact in your propaganda, one would almost think you were some sort of police state which would be a further degradation even considering your current modus operandi.
Either way, you can continue with your defence of your neapolitan proxy, the Papal States however will do whatever is necessary to ensure the independence of the other italian states both in terms of sovereignty, and also from the domination of powers such as yourself.
- Pope Leo XIV.
-
To Genoa
From the Papal States
Then if the other Italian States concur with your assesment, and if they agree to a congress that outcome will likely be the one that occurs.
Pope Leo XIV
Bulgaria
To: The World
From: Bulgaria
-
My Name is General Yavor Draganov, I am the current Tyrant of Bulgaria, a role I am despondent to fill. But it is a role I must follow to gain freedom for the people of this land. One day I hope to step down to a stable Bulgarian Government but until Rome Guarantees our independence and Sovereignty that is not an option. Bulgaria is currently locked in a War of Independence with the once great Roman Empire, We apologise to the other Regional powers such as Serbia and Hungary for any destabilization this has caused. We urge all true-born Bulgarians and followers of Freedom to not raid and fight against these governments.
With the Devastation of the Constantinople Event, Roman Government can no longer look after it's Empire and the people wish for freedom and Independence. The denial of aid from foreign governments caused great unrest in Bulgaria in particular. This new Imperator, Panagiotis I, is really just General Panagiotis Danglis. There is nothing Royal or Divine about this man and I urge all other Generals, especially those far away in the East, to follow their hearts and the people of their lands.
To Hungary, Serbia and their alliance in particular we beg an audience. Your historical rival the Roman Empire is falling and there is much we could discuss.
To the Three Emperors League, Rome is collapsing and funnelling money into them will only slow down the process. Just because we desire independence and self governance does not mean we do not know who were the allies of this land for a long time.
To Athens, the remains of Rome, we call upon you to cease your desire to preserve your old borders. We are your brothers who only wish to rule themselves. We could be united in friendship still, instead of in bloodshed.
To: The World
From: Bulgaria
-
My Name is General Yavor Draganov, I am the current Tyrant of Bulgaria, a role I am despondent to fill. But it is a role I must follow to gain freedom for the people of this land. One day I hope to step down to a stable Bulgarian Government but until Rome Guarantees our independence and Sovereignty that is not an option. Bulgaria is currently locked in a War of Independence with the once great Roman Empire, We apologise to the other Regional powers such as Serbia and Hungary for any destabilization this has caused. We urge all true-born Bulgarians and followers of Freedom to not raid and fight against these governments.
With the Devastation of the Constantinople Event, Roman Government can no longer look after it's Empire and the people wish for freedom and Independence. The denial of aid from foreign governments caused great unrest in Bulgaria in particular. This new Imperator, Panagiotis I, is really just General Panagiotis Danglis. There is nothing Royal or Divine about this man and I urge all other Generals, especially those far away in the East, to follow their hearts and the people of their lands.
To Hungary, Serbia and their alliance in particular we beg an audience. Your historical rival the Roman Empire is falling and there is much we could discuss.
To the Three Emperors League, Rome is collapsing and funnelling money into them will only slow down the process. Just because we desire independence and self governance does not mean we do not know who were the allies of this land for a long time.
To Athens, the remains of Rome, we call upon you to cease your desire to preserve your old borders. We are your brothers who only wish to rule themselves. We could be united in friendship still, instead of in bloodshed.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
To: Papal States
From: The United Kingdom
How strange that so perfect a body as the Catholic Church could make such an error in judgment on so colossal a question as imperialism. As for your suggestion that we are barbaric, bluntly aggressive to independent states - that is quite amusing. I see the Pope must have quite a sense of humor, to on the one hand order the death of Neapolitans and the fracturing of their nation, while on the other claim to be for peace and self-determination. Lesser men might say that indicated some type of petty desire to remain the hegemon over fractious, dissident states for material gains or personal desire - but that couldn't be true of the Pope, could it?
Please do not sully my ambassador's hands with another one of your letters unless it is to express contrition, as the level of offense you have rendered against us is nothing short of appalling.
We have told you what we want. So long as Naples remains intact, you will have no need to fear us.
From: The United Kingdom
How strange that so perfect a body as the Catholic Church could make such an error in judgment on so colossal a question as imperialism. As for your suggestion that we are barbaric, bluntly aggressive to independent states - that is quite amusing. I see the Pope must have quite a sense of humor, to on the one hand order the death of Neapolitans and the fracturing of their nation, while on the other claim to be for peace and self-determination. Lesser men might say that indicated some type of petty desire to remain the hegemon over fractious, dissident states for material gains or personal desire - but that couldn't be true of the Pope, could it?
Please do not sully my ambassador's hands with another one of your letters unless it is to express contrition, as the level of offense you have rendered against us is nothing short of appalling.
We have told you what we want. So long as Naples remains intact, you will have no need to fear us.
Jehoshua
Catholic
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2009
- Messages
- 7,284
ooc: I wont reply in context since its clear that in-context Britain and the Papal States clearly hate each other and have cut diplomatic relations.
But two quotes for you.
"The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum of saints."
"If you want peace, prepare for war"
anyways in this out of context discussion I can say that the Pope would be willing to ensure that Naples is undivided, but that he won't agree to anything thanks to the tone of your correspondence and out of concern that your just attempting to establish Naples as a proxy state to dominate Italian affairs.
But two quotes for you.
"The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum of saints."
"If you want peace, prepare for war"
anyways in this out of context discussion I can say that the Pope would be willing to ensure that Naples is undivided, but that he won't agree to anything thanks to the tone of your correspondence and out of concern that your just attempting to establish Naples as a proxy state to dominate Italian affairs.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
OOC: I can buy that, I usually separate IC from OOC anyway so... 
Circuit
Writing Letters
OOC: I will say that Jehoshua has already done a great job with the Papal States diplomacy (don't know what to make of the "OOC" part though) and has surpassed my diplo when I played the Papal States.
And of course I've always liked Crezth's diplo...
And of course I've always liked Crezth's diplo...
Jehoshua
Catholic
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2009
- Messages
- 7,284
ooc: Three reasons for the ooc thing.
Firstly:I had an itch to address the diplomatic correspondence and defend the accusation of hypocrisy without sending another letter.
Secondly: Becuase I wanted to take the opportunity to provide some out of context clarification as to the diplomatic reasoning behind my earlier responses to Britain
Thirdly: I wanted to make it clear that my manner of address was purely contextual to the actual game. I've had people develop personal grudges against me for things I've done purely in the context of a game.
-
Oh and thanks for the commendment. I got urged to join this by Sonereal apparently because "only I can make the pope awesome"
. I contest that judgement, but I give him that I have a particular affinity for the papal states 
Firstly:I had an itch to address the diplomatic correspondence and defend the accusation of hypocrisy without sending another letter.
Secondly: Becuase I wanted to take the opportunity to provide some out of context clarification as to the diplomatic reasoning behind my earlier responses to Britain
Thirdly: I wanted to make it clear that my manner of address was purely contextual to the actual game. I've had people develop personal grudges against me for things I've done purely in the context of a game.
-
Oh and thanks for the commendment. I got urged to join this by Sonereal apparently because "only I can make the pope awesome"
. I contest that judgement, but I give him that I have a particular affinity for the papal states 
The time is almost upon us. This is the 24 hourish warning.
For those interested, Diablo III is ok, but it isn't nearly as good as Skyrim.
For those interested, Diablo III is ok, but it isn't nearly as good as Skyrim.
Mickzter97
The One and Only
Skyrim ftw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TheLizardKing
Let's talk Michelle.
OOC: Am I invading Milan or not? I can't really tell.
Circuit
Writing Letters
@TheLizardKing: From what I have seen, Milan has declared neutrality in both major conflicts.
Milarqui
Deity
Orders sent. Now hoping that Karma will not punish me after the two wars I won in CIEN...
SouthernKing
crickety cricket
To: Bulgaria
From: Hungary
We'll do everything we can to help, although that isn't a whole lot at the moment.
From: Hungary
We'll do everything we can to help, although that isn't a whole lot at the moment.
