CCM2 Epic Mod

[XTC]

The carrier has a movement of 3 according to the stats, but it moves much further. Is that an error?

 

[Civinator]

The carrier has a movement of 3 according to the stats, but it moves much further. Is that an error?

This setting is completely intended to help the AI in using the carrier units. The details about those settings can be read when clicking at the following links in the CCM2 civilopedia:

For the carriers of the Forrestal Class these settings mean, that the unit can:

1. Move nine tiles (3x3) and no bombard attack of the carrier (but carrier based planes can still attack)
2. No movement of the carrier and three bombard attacks (plus attacks from carrier based planes as it is in all following cases)
3. Up to two tiles movement and three bombard attacks (as the first all-terrain-as-roads movement point is not completely used)
4. Movement of three to five tiles and two bombard attacks
5. Movement of six to eight tiles and one bombard attack

The use of the all-terrain-as -roads flag limits the number of blitz attacks the carrier can perform each turn. If the carrier in the example above would have nine movement points, that unit would be able to do up to nine bombard attacks each turn, what would be completely overpowered, especially when considering the additional attacks by carrier based aircraft (that mostly only the human player is able to perform).

 

[Civinator]

Edited: I don´t know, why my post above was mirrored in this post by the CFC forum.

 

[XTC]

Thanks for the explanation, Civinator. One other thing, I noticed than when a city is starving specialists are useless. For instance, a starving city which produces a building has 2 civil engineers (which means 4 extra shields). The next turn only 1 shield (of the city center) is added to the building. Is that also intentional?

 

[tjs282]

For instance, a starving city which produces a building has 2 civil engineers (which means 4 extra shields). The next turn only 1 shield (of the city center) is added to the building.

This is not, I think, a problem with CCM per se.

If the city has actually starved (i.e. lost a pop-point) during the interturn, then the CivEngs would have been reassigned as food-harvesting farmers before they had a chance to contribute their building-shields.

See this article for most of the details of interturn mechanics.

 

[jlvfr]

Thanks for the explanation, Civinator. One other thing, I noticed than when a city is starving specialists are useless. For instance, a starving city which produces a building has 2 civil engineers (which means 4 extra shields). The next turn only 1 shield (of the city center) is added to the building. Is that also intentional?

Pro tip on Civ III: never trust city-controled specialists, it's an utter fail.

 

[Civinator]

tjs282, thank you very much for answering XTC´s question (I have the same sight to it) and jlvfr, thank you very much for your 'pro tip' surely based on own sorrowful experiences.

 

[BillK]

Hi
Something odd happened.
Playing CCM2 as Australia, about 1962 in capital city Canberra there suddenly appeared a unit called Smoke-Monkey. It doesn't appear to do anything and is not mentioned in Civilopedia. Smoke-Jaguar is mentioned for the Maya in Short game, but I wasn't playing a Short game.
Is this a dead unit left in by mistake?

 

[jlvfr]

I thought weird animals was normal for Australia?

 

[Civinator]

Hi
Something odd happened.
Playing CCM2 as Australia, about 1962 in capital city Canberra there suddenly appeared a unit called Smoke-Monkey. It doesn't appear to do anything and is not mentioned in Civilopedia. Smoke-Jaguar is mentioned for the Maya in Short game, but I wasn't playing a Short game.
Is this a dead unit left in by mistake?

BillK, congratulations, you have received one of the best units in the game: A Scientific great leader:

I normally use this unit (if I was lucky enough to receive it), to rush build a Great Wonder in one turn.

I thought weird animals was normal for Australia?

jlvfr, great comment.

Seriously, the names of the scientific great leaders of that civ should be improved. These are still the names of the Maya Sci.leaders in standard C3C.

 

[BillK]

Thanks for the explanation!
What confused me was that the 'hurry production' or 'increase scientific output' button did not appear.
Probably because of resource shortage or lack of available Great Wonders.
I didn't notice that a Leader had appeared in the list of city residents - that would be the Smoke-Monkey.
I see it does offer to build an airport for me, but I think I'll save it for a while to see what turns up.

 

[Takeo]

What confused me was that the 'hurry production' or 'increase scientific output' button did not appear. Probably because of resource shortage or lack of available Great Wonders.

I think if you have cut down a forest on that city, then you can't switch to a wonder.

 

[XTC]

According to the Civilopedia a Battleship can be upgraded to a Guided Missile Cruiser. But the stats of that Cruiser are worse than that Battleship. Why that upgrade path?

And second question, I have that Battleship in a city with a harbor, I have oil and much gold in my balance but the upgrade option doesn't appear. Why?

 

[Civinator]

According to the Civilopedia a Battleship can be upgraded to a Guided Missile Cruiser. But the stats of that Cruiser are worse than that Battleship. Why that upgrade path?

And second question, I have that Battleship in a city with a harbor, I have oil and much gold in my balance but the upgrade option doesn't appear. Why?

XTC, two questions, but only one answer: The battleship cannot be upgraded, it becomes obsolete when Guided Missile Cruisers can be built. That´s why in the civilopedia the word 'obsolescence' is used. The hardcoded upgrade entry (only for units of the player) in C3C cannot be deleted.

About this topic you can see more details and screenshots in the posts of tjs282 and me:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ccm2-epic-mod.625812/page-8#post-15222721
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ccm2-epic-mod.625812/page-8#post-15223121

 

[tjs282]

And second question, I have that Battleship in a city with a harbor, I have oil and much gold in my balance but the upgrade option doesn't appear. Why?

I'd almost finished writing an answer to this myself (while thinking in my best Neo-voice, "Whoa — déjà vu!") when @Civinator posted much more briefly so instead I'll just cut to this bit:

Spoiler What's left of what I wrote :

Bear in mind (also) that the unit-stats alone may not tell the whole story, e.g. even if an older ship has M=6, it will cover less distance per turn (6 tiles) than a (newer) ship with M=3 plus the 'All Terrain as Roads' ability (which multiplies the M-value by the road-factor, i.e. in the epic game, 3*3 = 9 tiles). And if the newer ship (in this case) also has e.g. 'Blitz' attack and/or a better overall bombardment ability (stronger, or further, or higher RoF), and/or a much higher Anti-Air stat, and/or (more) bonus HP, it may actually be more effective at fighting than the older one was, despite looking 'weaker' on paper.

Real-world example: in the 19th and early 20th centuries, battleships (and their guns) were getting so large that they could no longer effectively defend themselves against the now very reliably engineered self-propelled torpedoes (or more to the point, the cheap, small, fast boats which could launch them). So without also having '(torpedo-boat) destroyers' to defend them, those huge, expensive battleships became increasingly less useful components of any fleet — and were effectively obsoleted with the advent of carrier-based aircraft, which could 'engage' a battleship from well beyond the horizon.

The destroyers now took on escort duties for carrier-groups, and were in their turn built bigger, and armed with increasingly more powerful/ sophisticated anti-submarine, anti-aircraft, and long-range missile systems. But by any basic comparison (e.g. size/cost, direct attack-power, defensive armour) — other than speed — even a 21stC destroyer still has 'weaker' stats than any early 20thC battleship...

 

[XTC]

Thanks for the one answer, Civinator. But here is another question. My destroyers can't attack enemy ships. Is that correct? Or can they only attack submarines?

 

[Civinator]

Thanks for the one answer, Civinator. But here is another question. My destroyers can't attack enemy ships. Is that correct? Or can they only attack submarines?

XTC, this would not be correct. Of course the destroyers can attack all kind of enemy ships, but they don´t have active bombardment attacks, but only defensive bombardment (range zero). You only have to klick on the links in the civilopedia entry of those units to receive an explanation:

This defensive salvo against attacking enemy ships can be especially important when defending convoys against submarine attacks, as here the ASW-level of the destroyers force submarines to deal with those escort ships first, if there are at least two of those defenders in the stack with the convoy.

 

[XTC]

Ok, so they only can REact on an attack

 

[Civinator]

Ok, so they only can REact on an attack

No, they can activly attack, not with bombardment attack, but by directly drawing the unit into the tile of the enemy unit (as you are doing it with landunits, too).

 

[tjs282]

here the ASW-level of the destroyers force submarines to deal with those escort ships first

Is this behaviour produced by an Editor-setting for destroyer-type ships themselves, or by setting destroyer-type ships as the submarines' 'Stealth Attack' targets (i.e. forcing subs to attack/sink destroyers in a mixed stack first, before they can go after any other class of ships)?