Changes not documented (or obvious) in patch notes

[Eagle Pursuit]

That doesn't make any sense. I mean maybe it's true, but it still doesn't make any sense.

It does.

You either have to take the grievances and keep the city or return it to alleviate grievances. You can't just ignore it, keep the city, and not take the penalty.

 

[Casworon]

Thats great. So it means its finally fixed!

 

[Cakeathon]

I wonder if cede actually does anything now...

38 grievance each in my game but might be setting/era dependant

38 for capture, -38 for return, 38 for cede, so capture+return is net 0 while caputre+cede is 76.

 

[Anno]

I go to war so infrequently that I honestly thought that’s how it already worked lol

Good change, though.

 

[bbbt]

It does.

You either have to take the grievances and keep the city or return it to alleviate grievances. You can't just ignore it, keep the city, and not take the penalty.

Basically you can't make peace while there is 'disputed' territory - i.e. all borders have to be resolved one way or the other.

 

[iammaxhailme]

Basically you can't make peace while there is 'disputed' territory - i.e. all borders have to be resolved one way or the other.

Oh, so that's why North Korea and South Korea are still technically at war.

Maybe there should be a ceasefire agreement in civ as well as a full-on peace treaty?

 

[acluewithout]

It's an addition to El Escorial, so maybe regular Inquisitors have been nerfed.

The civlopedia says 75% on the regular inquisitor's page, so I suppose so

That seems like a good change. Inquisitors have been too powerful for ages, so nerfing makes sense. And then they used the nerf to buff Spain nice.

But you now really need to found a Religion with Spain to maximise its abilities. That’s not hard to do, but always feels weird to me to found a Religion as Spain.

Alcazar now gives 2 culture (Maybe same as before?) and also science equal to 50% of the tile's appeal (Definitely new!), and can't be adjacent to each other (not sure?)

Oh! My favourite tile improvement just got... actually useful! Awesome!

It does.

You either have to take the grievances and keep the city or return it to alleviate grievances. You can't just ignore it, keep the city, and not take the penalty.

How do they fix cede and not right that in the patch notes! They’re leaving good publicity on the table!

 

[Cakeathon]

I go to war so infrequently that I honestly thought that’s how it already worked lol

Good change, though.

It's subtle, I didn't even notice until my 5th war. I did notice them being a lot more stingy with their money/resources in peace deals compared to R&F. Hungary didn't even take a straight up peace deal(cede all) with only 1 small city left...

 

[Architect]

So its grievances for taking the city and killing all those people when you do and grievances for keeping the city in a peace deal? If its like 100 grievances to suprise war you then you can easily keep one city if its around 75 grievances to take and keep a city.

Is this the basic idea?

 

[UWHabs]

It does.

You either have to take the grievances and keep the city or return it to alleviate grievances. You can't just ignore it, keep the city, and not take the penalty.

Does it tell you explicitly what the grievance cost is? I could definitely see a case now where it might make more sense to take the 125 (?) grievance hit to all civs for capturing a civ's last city rather than take the extra grievance hit for all these ceded cities.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Does it tell you explicitly what the grievance cost is? I could definitely see a case now where it might make more sense to take the 125 (?) grievance hit to all civs for capturing a civ's last city rather than take the extra grievance hit for all these ceded cities.

@Cakeathon says 38 grievances

 

[oakdragon]

It does.

You either have to take the grievances and keep the city or return it to alleviate grievances. You can't just ignore it, keep the city, and not take the penalty.

Oh, I see. I thought he meant you couldn't keep the city at all.

 

[Cakeathon]

Does it tell you explicitly what the grievance cost is? I could definitely see a case now where it might make more sense to take the 125 (?) grievance hit to all civs for capturing a civ's last city rather than take the extra grievance hit for all these ceded cities.

No you have to look it up afterward in the log. It's definatly era dependant(i play standard/standard), old captures were 32 in classical while my medieval captures are 38.

Capture/cede are only civ specific while taking a final city is global grievance added to all other civs, I have some old ones at 76 and recent ones at 150.

I think it's better to let them live, no matter how much grievance you have with other civs, "grievance against other players" caps at -40. But personal grievances with a given AI can add up to -60 relationship on top of that -40. Best not get personal grievances with those you want to befriend I think.

Also holding a capital is a permanant -3 per turn with that civ.

EDIT: after some calculations it seems keeping them alive leads to lower but longer lasting negative relation with everybody else while wiping them out leads to a very high(-70) but short-lived negative relationship with everybody else(about 18 turns on medieval). The best, as usual, is to leave 1 city and let it flip or have somebody else capture it, this should lead to 0 relationship penalty.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Forcing either cede/return is a huge fix to an issue that's been lingering. Great to see!!

I wonder if this is only for GS and that's why it didn't make the patch notes?

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Forcing either cede/return is a huge fix to an issue that's been lingering. Great to see!!

I wonder if this is only for GS and that's why it didn't make the patch notes?

if it involves "grievances" I'm sure it's GS only.

 

[iammaxhailme]

It seems you no longer get era score for having all the governors. Or maybe it's bugged and you need the Ottoman's too; I just hired the 7th normal one (as Canada), no score.

 

[agonistes]

Alcazar now gives 2 culture (Maybe same as before?) and also science equal to 50% of the tile's appeal (Definitely new!), and can't be adjacent to each other (not sure?)

Wow. They were already pretty strong.

 

[tedhebert]

Forcing either cede/return is a huge fix to an issue that's been lingering. Great to see!!

I wonder if this is only for GS and that's why it didn't make the patch notes?

Hmmm maybe... but for me, it just means THAT much more incentive to just kill off that civ instead of going for peace...

Still, cede has been broken forever, good to see SOMETHING happening there

 

[Seek]

Apparently lake Natural Wonders are now considered actual lake tiles - meaning boats can enter them. I haven't been able to test this myself but I've seen it twice now, and on different wonders.

 

[pgm123]

Oh, so that's why North Korea and South Korea are still technically at war.

Maybe there should be a ceasefire agreement in civ as well as a full-on peace treaty?

That would be interesting. Fwiw, there have been border instances that would count as war between ROK and DPRK since the ceasefire was signed, so it's a bit tricky to implement.