Christianity in Europe: what is its future?

What's the future of Christianity in Europe?

  • It's a living religion and it has a bright future

    Votes: 4 6.3%
  • It's a living religion but it has a hard future

    Votes: 21 33.3%
  • It's a living religion but it has no future at all

    Votes: 10 15.9%
  • It's hard to tell wether is de facto dead or alive, but it will survive with precarious health

    Votes: 11 17.5%
  • It's hard to tell wether is de facto dead or alive, but it will most likely die relatively soon

    Votes: 1 1.6%
  • It's a de facto dead religion but it shall survive as folklore for a long time

    Votes: 6 9.5%
  • It's a de facto dead religion and its ultimate demise is relatively imminent

    Votes: 6 9.5%
  • Other (please, elaborate)

    Votes: 4 6.3%

  • Total voters
    63
Do you think that the lower classes of the You Kay are going to give up beer and bacon?

Next you'll be telling me that Mrs Thatcher had a heart :lol:
It depends on how dominant Islam becomes: how much more immigration of Muslims is permitted, how much they sustain their higher birthrates and how successful they are at proselytizing.

That's a lot of things that have to happen, none of which are guaranteed. But neither is it impossible.

The Liderene's heart was, of course, made of solid Mr Whippy ice cream.
 
I actually don't even know the trends, I just feel like the internet is going to give people access to a lot of information that will make them question it(which is pretty much what happened to every atheist I know irl). And the more people that leave, the more acceptable it becomes in turn to leave, so we could be looking at a snowball effect.

If they are atheist wouldn't the internet open them up to religion? Thats what happened to me, I even got in touch with mormon missionaries through the internet.

Do you think that the lower classes of the You Kay are going to give up beer and bacon?

Why not? I haven't drank in months and months before that as well.
 
It depends on how dominant Islam becomes: how much more immigration of Muslims is permitted, how much they sustain their higher birthrates and how successful they are at proselytizing.

That's a lot of things that have to happen, none of which are guaranteed. But neither is it impossible.

Barring ultra-mass 100% islamic immigration to the UK, the country cannot become majority muslim in a timespan you or me can appreciate.

"Lower classes" in England are definitely not going to give up their beer and pig food.
 
I still live with my parents, so I go to a Baptist church. I would much prefer to go to an Orthodox one. But this forum is hardly representative of the global population.
Off-topic a bit, but what's your reason for feeling that way? (I know almost nothing about either Baptism or Orthodoxy- we simply don't get them here in any significant numbers- so I'm curious to know what might lead a person from one to the other.)
 
Barring ultra-mass 100% islamic immigration to the UK, the country cannot become majority muslim in a timespan you or me can appreciate.

"Lower classes" in England are definitely not going to give up their beer and pig food.
What do you say to this?


Link to video.

(The opinions expressed in this video are the authors' own, and should not be taken as any indication of the views of the poster.)
 
Barring ultra-mass 100% islamic immigration to the UK, the country cannot become majority muslim in a timespan you or me can appreciate.

"Lower classes" in England are definitely not going to give up their beer and pig food.
Also I can't imagine that young 2nd or 3rd generation Muslim immigrants are going to be any more Muslim than young Anglicans are Anglican.


EDIT: @Borachio: racist nonsense.
 
What do you say to this?

<snip>

(The opinions expressed in this video are the authors' own, and should not be taken as any indication of the views of the poster.)

The stats in that video are idiotic. It says Belgium has a 25% Muslim population already, wiki says its only 4%. Its use of math and stats is disturbing.
 
Also I can't imagine that young 2nd or 3rd generation Muslim immigrants are going to be any more Muslim than young Anglicans are Anglican.
Yeah exactly, alot of people I know who come from immigrant and religious backgrounds might pay some homage to it but it's not the main factor in their life by along way.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Europe#Current_population_and_its_perception
Don Melvin wrote in 2004 that, excluding Russia, Europe's Muslim population will double by 2020. He also says that almost 85% of Europe's total population growth in 2005 was due to immigration in general.[22][25] Omer Taspinar predicted in 2001 that the Muslim population of Europe will nearly double by 2015, while the non-Muslim will shrink by 3.5%, if the higher Muslim birth rate persists.[26] In the UK, between 2001 and 2009, the Muslim population increased roughly 10 times faster than the rest of the population
Though the next paragraph reads:
A 2007 Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) report argued that some Muslim population projections are overestimated.[28] Philip Jenkins of Penn State University estimates that by 2100, Muslims will compose about 25% of Europe's population. Jenkins states this figure does not take account divergent birthrates amongst Europe's immigrant Christians.[29] Other analysts are skeptical about the accuracy of the claimed Muslim population growth, stating that because many European countries do not ask a person's religion on official forms or in censuses, it has been difficult to obtain accurate estimates, and arguing that there has been a decrease in Muslim fertility rates in Morocco, the Netherlands and Turkey.[30] A Pew Research Center study, published in January 2011, forecast an increase of Muslims in European population from 6% in 2010 to 8% in 2030.[31] PEW also found that Muslim fertility rate in Europe would drop from 2.2 in 2010 to 2.0 in 2030. On the other hand, the non-Muslim fertility rate in Europe would increase from 1.5 in 2010 to 1.6 in 2030
 
Mosque attendance is dropping faster than church attendance in the Netherlands.

Funny thing is, the statistic 25% of population is Muslim has also appeared with regard to the Netherlands, while I remember only having about 6%.
 
Also I can't imagine that young 2nd or 3rd generation Muslim immigrants are going to be any more Muslim than young Anglicans are Anglican.

Religion is on the rise in many Muslim countries so I cant really find much reason to believe you are right.
 
What do you say to this?

The video starts with:

"According to research [citation needed] in order for a culture [definition?] to maintain itself [specify?] for more than 25 years, there must be a fertility rate of 2.11 children per family."

That kind of makes it clear straight away that the rest is drivel. It piles dubious claims ("fertility rates cannot recover") and references to some unknown authority ("historical research shows...") on top of wrong facts ("... across the European Union of 31 countries (...)") and inane extrapolations of trends interpreted in the most extreme way possible ("Islamic migrants will maintain 8.1 children-per-family fertility rate forever") to make crystal-ball predictions of the future ("in 39 years, France will be an Islamic republic", "in 15% years, half of the population of the Netherlands will be Muslim"). Funnily, it also contradicts itself: if 25% of the Belgian population was Muslim, shouldn't far more than 50% of all newborns be 'islamic', given the ridiculously high fertility rates mentioned earlier?

It's clear the author of this doesn't have any idea about what he's talking about. The alarming thing about it is that this particular video has gone viral, I even got a link to its Czech-subtitled version through email, and people believe this crap.

I kind of liked the reference to Gaddafi though. Considering how he ended up, it shows what the value of these alarmist forecasts is.

Now, this is from a far more reliable source:

Readers should bear in mind that estimates of the numbers of Muslims in Europe vary widely
because of the difficulty of counting new immigrants. Nevertheless, it is clear that most European
Muslims live in eastern and central Europe.
The country with the largest Muslim population in
Europe is Russia, with more than 16 million Muslims, meaning that more than four-in-ten European
Muslims live in Russia.
While most Muslims in western Europe are relatively recent immigrants
(or children of immigrants) from Turkey, North Africa or South Asia, most of those in Russia,
Albania, Kosovo, Bosnia-Herzegovina and Bulgaria belong to populations that are centuries old,
meaning that more than six-in-ten European Muslims are indigenous.
Despite the limitations of the underlying data for Europe, it appears that Germany is home to more
than 4 million Muslims &#8211; almost as many as North and South America combined. This means
that Germany has more Muslims than Lebanon (between 2 million and 3 million) and more than
any other country in western Europe. This also puts Germany among the top-10 countries with
the largest number of Muslims living as a minority population. While France has a slightly higher
percentage of Muslims than Germany, this study finds that it has slightly fewer Muslims overall.7
The United Kingdom is home to fewer than 2 million Muslims, about 3% of its total population.
The European countries with the highest concentration of Muslims are located in eastern
and central Europe: Kosovo (90%), Albania (80%), Bosnia-Herzegovina (40%) and Republic of
Macedonia (33%).
Greece is about 3% Muslim, while Spain is about 1% Muslim. Italy has one
of the smallest populations of Muslims in Europe, with less than 1% of its population being
Muslim.8

Now, please tell me again how Europe is going to go from ~5% Muslim (including the indigenous Muslim populations in the Balkans and Russia) to over 50% Muslim in the next 50 years. It would require a population transfer never before seen in human history, or a mass suicide of at least 90% of non-Muslim Europeans.

In other words, nonsense.

Well, I think it's a shame. Islam has a great deal to offer.

Like institutionalized misogyny, religious sense of inherent superiority to the kaffirs, five million food and drink taboos, and other glorious products of the bronze age?

No thanks.
 
I have tasted some great dishes from Muslim countries though. Just as yummy as they are unpronounceable.

Yes please :)
 
Religion is on the rise in many Muslim countries so I cant really find much reason to believe you are right.

Is it, really? Because since 99% of people there are allegedly practising Muslims already, it really can't be on the rise. The only way for it to go is down, and this is where it *will* go, eventually. Unless the Middle East self-destructs before it gets to the point where socio-economic factors lead people away from stupid religions.
 
Like institutionalized misogyny, religious sense of inherent superiority to the kaffirs, five million food and drink taboos, and other glorious products of the bronze age?

No thanks.

Whats wrong with misogyny if all members consent, :lol: , only pigs, I dont know any drink taboos, Bosnia is the worlds 5th strong alcohol/spirit drinker, I love flint spears more.
 
Whats wrong with misogyny if all members consent, :lol: , only pigs, I dont know any drink taboos, Bosnia is the worlds 5th strong alcohol/spirit drinker, I love flint spears more.

Whatever, your personal views of it are irrelevant.

My point is that if most Europeans find Christianity too crazy for their taste, I can guarantee you that at least the same number of them will find Islam even crazier. Ziggy nailed it when he said that the only religions which have *some* chance of gaining a larger following among indigenous Europeans are the Eastern (Asian) ones. You know, all that karma, chi, yingyang nonsense. It's sufficiently alien and mysterious to appeal to some people looking for an outlet for their spiritual impulse.

The rest will just go atheist/agnostic and care about more interesting things than religion.

Unless more people are being born. Could use more than one measure.

Well, in absolute terms, yes. Relatively speaking Islam cannot expand much in the countries that already declare themselves as Islamic.

I kind of hope that one day, they will look at the "Islamist" period in the same way we look down at the Communist era. Like "what the hell were we thinking *facepalm*".
 
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