Civ4 Warlords - OT game?
- Thread starter IglooDame
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ComradeDavo
Formerly God
Thats cool no worries dude.
Raisin Bran
Cereal Killer
I dont see why we are debating the issue ..... The way I see it is that all will be allowed to ship units back and fourth but I (and all agressive leaders) will no be allowed.
Kinda unfair.
If the yea on the un-gifting motion is passed then Ill ask all my alliance members to ship me their units ... Ill promote them and give them back ...... Kinda unfair for the others too.
This issue should not be debated since it was clearely stated in the official rules. Since this is for fun I say everybody should be NOT allowed to give back units since it will be unfair either way for some of us.
azzaman333
meh
No, un-gifting shouldn't be allowed. Once you gift it, don't expect it back.
HitAnyKey
Lunatic
I agree. Once a unit is gifted...it's gifted.
Next turn is up, civstats.com website and email notifications are down, y'all have about 23 hours to take your turn...
Kemal
Tough Bureaucrat
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2001
- Messages
- 555
Right. So I may be the new guy here just taking over, but I've got to strongly voice an opinion on the course of action taken by Davo and Sparta in this game last turn.
So we've decided to take (imho) desperate measures by reversing game time by at least a full turn, because cities under siege by bclg have been gifted to Sparta to prevent them from falling into enemy hands. Okay, rightfully deemed illegal, everyone gets to play his turn again.
So imagine my surprise when I open the turn today, to see that the city described by BCLG earlier as "third city gifted, the one he could not see yet", sees al defenders now parked just outside the city, and Davo and Sparta have declared war (which they did no do the previous time this turn was played), with a chariot (with near certainty) ready to take over that city.
Don't see much difference with city gifting there.
Even if one could argue that BCLG is still some time away from that city, it is still changing hands in a manner that would not allow either BCLG, or any other civ for that matter (for example, the specific city also borders Straland directly, so any possibly offensive there on Davo would immediately be null and void too).
In essence, all it takes to circumvent the city gift rule is having a chariot or other fast mover just outside the borders of the other civ, ready to enter the fray once cities can no longer be kept, and take home some pillaging money while cities are de-facto being gifted anyway.
Well, as passer-by, I'm not here to make the rules or anything, but in this case, having seen the debate and arguments on city gifting so far, I think this goes too far and most certainly against the spirit of the ruling on city gifting made clear just a few pages earlier.
So we've decided to take (imho) desperate measures by reversing game time by at least a full turn, because cities under siege by bclg have been gifted to Sparta to prevent them from falling into enemy hands. Okay, rightfully deemed illegal, everyone gets to play his turn again.
So imagine my surprise when I open the turn today, to see that the city described by BCLG earlier as "third city gifted, the one he could not see yet", sees al defenders now parked just outside the city, and Davo and Sparta have declared war (which they did no do the previous time this turn was played), with a chariot (with near certainty) ready to take over that city.
Don't see much difference with city gifting there.
Even if one could argue that BCLG is still some time away from that city, it is still changing hands in a manner that would not allow either BCLG, or any other civ for that matter (for example, the specific city also borders Straland directly, so any possibly offensive there on Davo would immediately be null and void too).
In essence, all it takes to circumvent the city gift rule is having a chariot or other fast mover just outside the borders of the other civ, ready to enter the fray once cities can no longer be kept, and take home some pillaging money while cities are de-facto being gifted anyway.
Well, as passer-by, I'm not here to make the rules or anything, but in this case, having seen the debate and arguments on city gifting so far, I think this goes too far and most certainly against the spirit of the ruling on city gifting made clear just a few pages earlier.
Kemal
Tough Bureaucrat
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2001
- Messages
- 555
I'd like to make clear that I do not want to accuse Davo, sparta or anyone from trying to break the rules here. If there is a *real* war going on there (which would kinda contradict their behaviour in the previous/revoced turn), there is nothing wrong with that in itself of course.
However, the issue of pseudo-city gifting is not covered by any rule atm it seems to me, making any other city gifting rule rather meaningless, doesn't it?
However, the issue of pseudo-city gifting is not covered by any rule atm it seems to me, making any other city gifting rule rather meaningless, doesn't it?
The difference, it seems to me, being that leaving the city open and conquering it will give it X number of turns of anarchy, it'll remove all the culture buildings automatically (so no library, temple, theater, monument), and possibly some of the non-culture buildings.
I think that the rules can properly prohibit one player from giving another player a boost wholesale, but retail it gets us pretty far in the weeds and I'm inclined to let it pass.
But... *turns on the Whompsignal*...
I think that the rules can properly prohibit one player from giving another player a boost wholesale, but retail it gets us pretty far in the weeds and I'm inclined to let it pass.
But... *turns on the Whompsignal*...
This is a tough call...
OK so Davo moved everything he had to the front with BCLG. In the process, he's given up on his backline cities that were bordering Sparta. Sparta declares and will easily take the cities however unlike a gifting he will lose buildings and productivity. In effect, an intentional backstab but odds are retty good Sparta would take Davo's cities anyhow (but without promo opportunities), I presume?
It's tough to have a reasonable solution to this so I'm inclined to let play on. If this makes sense...it's near impossible to play the past without knowing what lies in the future because it was already determined. The element of surprise is gone.
Lines have obviously been drawn and could forment more war in the process which from the sounds of this game may be necessary. Who knows maybe the peaceful types will benefit.
The one thing I would ask is that people be civil here. There will be plenty of opportunity to bash someone's head in other games.
OK so Davo moved everything he had to the front with BCLG. In the process, he's given up on his backline cities that were bordering Sparta. Sparta declares and will easily take the cities however unlike a gifting he will lose buildings and productivity. In effect, an intentional backstab but odds are retty good Sparta would take Davo's cities anyhow (but without promo opportunities), I presume?
It's tough to have a reasonable solution to this so I'm inclined to let play on. If this makes sense...it's near impossible to play the past without knowing what lies in the future because it was already determined. The element of surprise is gone.
Lines have obviously been drawn and could forment more war in the process which from the sounds of this game may be necessary. Who knows maybe the peaceful types will benefit.
The one thing I would ask is that people be civil here. There will be plenty of opportunity to bash someone's head in other games.
Kan' Sharuminar
Fluffy
Apologies, thought I voted last night. The honest truth is that I'm not at all bothered which way this goes (for the record: if I gift a unit, I do so under the belief I won't see it again). I was hoping there would be an obvious winner by now, but ah wells.
Yes to both then, if I understand it rightly.
Yes to both then, if I understand it rightly.
Yes to the first one = Returning of units that were gifted to the original owner is allowed, if you misunderstood it let me know.
@Whomp: Thanks for your decision.
Kan' Sharuminar
Fluffy
Raisin Bran
Cereal Killer
This message is approved By the JAP (Japanese Alliance Protocol)
For your information, The Land of the Raising Bran has declared War On Straland. We need more territory for our glorious nation to expand, Too bad you're occupying the land already, we need it.
Any Straland Allies will be declared upon if any action is taken against The Land of The Raising Bran or any of their allies.
Ok now, I sure Wish I did not declare.
I killed Franz Ferdinand, again.
For your information, The Land of the Raising Bran has declared War On Straland. We need more territory for our glorious nation to expand, Too bad you're occupying the land already, we need it.
Any Straland Allies will be declared upon if any action is taken against The Land of The Raising Bran or any of their allies.
Ok now, I sure Wish I did not declare.
I killed Franz Ferdinand, again.
Someone lost at least half his army yesterday, and it wasn't me.
Kan' Sharuminar
Fluffy
I, however, shall fight on.
The German Empire and the Japanese Republic, linked together in their cause and in their need, will defend to the death their native soil, aiding each other like good comrades to the utmost of their strength. We shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in Japan, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Nation, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this nation or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the German Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.
I am enjoying this, Matrix
The German Empire and the Japanese Republic, linked together in their cause and in their need, will defend to the death their native soil, aiding each other like good comrades to the utmost of their strength. We shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in Japan, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Nation, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this nation or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the German Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.
I am enjoying this, Matrix
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