[LP] Civilization VI: Leader Pass - Discussion Thread

[Linklite]

Nah, but hopefully someone will read it and think twice about doing it. Better than letting it be tacitly approved.

 

[InsidiousMage]

It does matter, because the intent of reviews isn't to provide an outlet for your frustration. They're there to help guide future buyers, either to reassure them that it's a quality product worth buying...or to warn them of a bad product. If it's only a temporary set back (or boon)...then it's worse than useless as a review, because it is telling people it's a bad product, when it's not, it's been fixed (or at least will be). If it isn't fixed...then go ahead, warn people it's broken.

If you're just angry and looking to vent, do something more productive. Write an angry email to Firaxis or complain on social media. Leaving a bad review because your free content didn't arrive for a day after release is not helpful and is a big reason why customer reviews aren't reliable - too often, they're reviewing the wrong thing.

The issue is that there isn't anything players can fundamentally do when something like this happens, aside from leave negative reviews. Leaving aside whether or not there should be consequences for this debacle, there aren't really going to be any consequences for Firaxis for this, because that's just kind of way the industry works at this point. Personally, I can't think of a more pointless thing to do than send an email to Firaxis and social media is ephemeral so, again, complaining on there isn't going to do anything in the long term. Having a bunch of games with not great reviews might not actually get anything to change, but, again, its all players have.

Not to mention the fact that since more and more games are basically transitioning to a live service business model, how they launch new products and DLC does matter. If a company constantly has bad launches that take months to fix then, yeah, that should factor into whether or not someone buys a game, especially if that game isn't complete. I mean, there are still bugs in the game from when NFP was finished. How a company deals with these things does matter and reviews should reflect that. Review bombing isn't great and people should definitely be better at leaving feedback but a bad launch or weak post-launch support, especially if it is part of a pattern, can be just as an important part of a review as the game's mechanics.

 

[Linklite]

The issue is that there isn't anything players can fundamentally do when something like this happens, aside from leave negative reviews. Leaving aside whether or not there should be consequences for this debacle, there aren't really going to be any consequences for Firaxis for this, because that's just kind of way the industry works at this point. Personally, I can't think of a more pointless thing to do than send an email to Firaxis and social media is ephemeral so, again, complaining on there isn't going to do anything in the long term. Having a bunch of games with not great reviews might not actually get anything to change, but, again, its all players have.

Not to mention the fact that since more and more games are basically transitioning to a live service business model, how they launch new products and DLC does matter. If a company constantly has bad launches that take months to fix then, yeah, that should factor into whether or not someone buys a game, especially if that game isn't complete. I mean, there are still bugs in the game from when NFP was finished. How a company deals with these things does matter and reviews should reflect that. Review bombing isn't great and people should definitely be better at leaving feedback but a bad launch or weak post-launch support, especially if it is part of a pattern, can be just as an important part of a review as the game's mechanics.

Then review NFP negatively, if it didn't meet your expectations. Review the company negatively. Those reviews are not going to be any more effective than social media. Heck, I've seen social media change things - look at Spelljammer 5e.

I'm not saying that you should never leave a negative review. If this persists, then I'd definitely encourage anyone to go do so. Giving a review twenty minutes after release time because they haven't gotten their leaders yet is not productive. It's the kind of thing that devalues the legitimate reviews saying that NFP introduced major unfixed bugs, and ends up promoting things like not bothering to ensure a smooth launch or fix problems - because a thumbs down doesn't differentiate between "this game is rubbish" and "there was a temporary hiccup that won't affect buyers in the future".

 

[Linklite]

Anyway, this is getting too far off topic, we're supposed to be talking about the leader pass, so I won't be responding or reading further discussion on reviews, to discourage further derailment.

 

[Linklite]

The leader pass works for me now, without the workaround. Hopefully that means it's working for everyone.

What a drama!

Shame I couldn't play tonight, but looking forward to playing a Dom game tomorrow with Abe!

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Ooo, the second CS I found with Nzinga is Kandy. This will be interesting.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

My first Lincoln start, and of course there's 3 sugars.

 

[Zaarin]

My first Lincoln start, and of course there's 3 sugars.

The only thing more hilarious would have been three Cotton.

 

[Disgustipated]

My first Lincoln start, and of course there's 3 sugars.

I got 3 honeys. Though I had to check real quick to make sure those weren't plantations (camps go on those). And then I got jade nearby too.

 

[Linklite]

Gotta say...I'm looking at the three LUAs...and they seem just really boring.

Abe is ok...thematic and flavourful, and it's okay, mostly riding on the free unit, which doesn't have the synergy of Basil's, so it just seems meh. I guess it's based on the IZ so they didn't want to make it too powerful.

Nzinga's is perhaps thematic and flavourful (I'm really not knowledgeable of her history, so I'm just going with the colonisation of Africa thing here), but is a little boring. Increased yields on her own continent and reduced on other continents just doesn't mean much to me. I guess

Saladin is...blegh. it's not often I get to use flanking anyway thanks to AI abilities in combat, and it just doesn't do much for me at all.

Perhaps I'm overly harsh - it's possible that being used to getting Civs with leaders, getting only leaders is inevitably underwhelming in comparison. On the chance I'm not being too harsh, I'm a little concerned because I'd have expected them to start with some exciting ones - get a bang to build excitement for the other leaders. Not every leader can be exciting, and we were going to get boring ones as well (that are needed), but that they started out with them suggests that maybe that's the tone for the pack.

 

[SnowKomodo]

If an 89 cents chess game is purchased in a forest, but nobody is around to play it, does that mean I get the new Civ 6 leaders? Yes, yes it does!

 

[acluewithout]

I can't help but feel really bad for Firaxis. They are a team of such sweethearts and I just want to give anyone there who is stressed about this a big bear hug

Yeah, I’m with you.

The Firaxis team seem like great people that love the game and really try to get things right. The Leader Pass is super cool - in some ways, I can’t believe it’s free!

Looks like Firaxis are working through the technical issues. It’ll work itself out.

 

[Brew God]

Hello Fellow Die Hard Civ 6 Fans,

Still nothing on my side. Launch is back to 3 of 3 DLC's installed with the new 2K image. For me at the Steam store the Anthology Bundle cost is $0.00 and will take me to the credit card page before review and confirm. Will wait until tomorrow to see if Firaxis Steam has this worked out then I will see if I can buy the Anthology at zero to get the Leader Pass to download and install. Like everyone else...will update those who are like me at the moment. Just waiting. Also perhaps LUA is what is meant about Caesar not getting gold when destroying barb huts. Destroyed 3 huts with warriors on "online" speed and got 0 gold each time. Don't know if that has already been discussed. I think one person said...should I play as Barbarossa and have a productive day and wait this whole ordeal out.

Thanks

Brew God

 

[Flactine]

New leaders have no achievement.

 

[sukritact]

Reposting from the other thread since the actual design discussion seems to be happening here.

Dunno how I feel about the new leaders, Lincoln is interesting I guess? But America isn’t exactly guaranteed to even encounter plantation resources, and improving 2-3 per city is largely a non-issue in Cities you settled. I did something similar for Robespierre, and I found a needed larger numbers in both directions to actually make things interesting.

Also makes it a bad idea to capture cities with Plantations as Lincoln, which feels somewhat ironic.

I guess Nzinga is fine. I can’t say the LUA is particularly exciting at this stage in the game’s lifespan. I feel like there could have been a more interesting way to do the whole “my continent good, everyone else bad” though I’m not sure how yet. Besides which it doesn't feel that relevant to her personally? Nor does it feel it really ties in with the base game Kongo

Saladin is probably gonna be pretty strong with those flanking bonuses, but also feels really boring. Wish the flanking bonus was weaker and we got a *little* more tacked into the LUA instead.

Gotta say...I'm looking at the three LUAs...and they seem just really boring.

...

Perhaps I'm overly harsh - it's possible that being used to getting Civs with leaders, getting only leaders is inevitably underwhelming in comparison.

I dunno, I think they could have been bolder with the design choices. And it's not like they can't do that with just the leader. Look at Lady Six Sky or Kupe. I think most of us sorta expect rather big gameplay changes at this stage in the game's lifespan. Plus they don't really feel like they sync much with the base abilities. I guess Arabia and Saladin both like faith and that's basically it?

 

[HEYZOMBO]

Is there any word on if the Leader Pass would go to console?

 

[Takfloyd]

I think it's perfectly fine to add some less contrived leaders. One of the (many) problems with Civ VI has been the way it spams endless amounts of little convoluted and un-intuitive rules at you, whether it's via policies, religions or civ/leader abilities. You forgot to have your worker fart twice in the direction of the nearest windmill while standing on one foot in a forest with bigfoot tracks in it that is less than 5 tiles away from at least two entertainment complexes? Sucks to be you, now you wasted your second governor's third ability that is only active on tuesdays.

With a lot of leader abilities being overly specific like that, it's nice to have some simple ones that let you focus on the bigger picture too. Meanwhile, they should put some of the more intricate design effort into patching and balancing the core game.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Saladin is...blegh. it's not often I get to use flanking anyway thanks to AI abilities in combat, and it just doesn't do much for me at all.

I dunno, I think they could have been bolder with the design choices. And it's not like they can't do that with just the leader. Look at Lady Six Sky or Kupe. I think most of us sorta expect rather big gameplay changes at this stage in the game's lifespan. Plus they don't really feel like they sync much with the base abilities. I guess Arabia and Saladin both like faith and that's basically it?

It sounds a little better when you realize that flanking and support bonuses also work for religious combat, if you like that sort of thing.
But I do agree that the ability is pretty simple, even compared to the already existing Saladin.

 

[iammaxhailme]

Gotta say...I'm looking at the three LUAs...and they seem just really boring.

Abe is ok...thematic and flavourful, and it's okay, mostly riding on the free unit, which doesn't have the synergy of Basil's, so it just seems meh. I guess it's based on the IZ so they didn't want to make it too powerful.

Nzinga's is perhaps thematic and flavourful (I'm really not knowledgeable of her history, so I'm just going with the colonisation of Africa thing here), but is a little boring. Increased yields on her own continent and reduced on other continents just doesn't mean much to me. I guess

Saladin is...blegh. it's not often I get to use flanking anyway thanks to AI abilities in combat, and it just doesn't do much for me at all.

Perhaps I'm overly harsh - it's possible that being used to getting Civs with leaders, getting only leaders is inevitably underwhelming in comparison. On the chance I'm not being too harsh, I'm a little concerned because I'd have expected them to start with some exciting ones - get a bang to build excitement for the other leaders. Not every leader can be exciting, and we were going to get boring ones as well (that are needed), but that they started out with them suggests that maybe that's the tone for the pack.

Yeah I agree with these... none are bad, just kinda boring. Lincoln's doesn't really synergize with the rest of America's powers. Nzinga's is definitely storng but it's almost totally passive. Saladin's would be the most interesting, except I hate doing mass unit micro so I rarely do domination or religious victories. Julius's is OK, not super exciting but it makes sense and will probably at least have sort-of an appreciable effect even if you only kill barbs.

I will say though, -2 loyalty on plantations from Lincoln... that's so minor it'll probably rarely effect anything. Maybe if you capture a small city with multiple plantations in it, but if you play peacefully, you can almost certainly just ignore the penalty at home.

 

[Disgustipated]

So far with Lincoln, loyalty has not been an issue when conquering. This malus should be significantly steeper imho.

I did pillage a plantation, I think that eliminated any loyalty I would have gotten when I conquered the city. I didn't see any negatives from that.

And yeah, I'm beating up on Julius Caesar. He's weak sauce. Trajan I still feel is the superior leader.