[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Revanchist]

TBH I'd like to see them as a strong culture civ with hefty food bonuses to bonus resources so I wouldn't see them as looking anything like Norway personally. If anything, I'd see them encroaching on Maori and Indonesia.

They could have a uu canoe that gives them bonus culture and faith from pillaging

 

[Zaarin]

They could have a uu canoe that gives them bonus culture and faith from pillaging

Maybe, though considering the Haida were first and foremost traders I'd see it as functioning more like Phoenicia's and Mali's anti-pillaging UU. However, since raiding is also a thing they did that could work.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Could maybe be something as simple as miscommunication? It's a large project, and maybe it was overlooked exactly because the color palette of the icon is a small detail when compared to things like music and language.

Yeah if the colors actually were Haida, I would have expected a black on red icon.

this seems most likely to me: all we know is to some extent, the haida and genoa were planned for this game but didn’t make it in. Perhaps they wanted to keep them for later, perhaps they couldn’t get cool and fun abilities, perhaps in the case of haida, the nation itself didn’t want to be in the game.

Assertions of how long they planned on having the haida before they changed to the cree are pointless. All I’ll say is that the character design, voice acting and music are the most time consuming aspects of the game and those have stayed true to Poundmaker and the Cree.

It would be nice if devs went in depth into why they made the decision at some point though, like how they talked about why they didn’t do the Pueblo.

That's generally my impression as well. I imagine they have to let the composers know fairly early on in development which civs they are choosing so they have time to research the style and locate musicians. Same thing to a lesser extent for the writing/casting for the leader.

The Haida, along with other hints here and there, are why I suspect the devs have a lot of civs in various stages of pre-development. It's probably a better idea to have several options being floated for any particular culture/region, so that when inspiration happens they can pivot towards a particularly strong civ design, or when rejection happens they can pivot away from a controversial design. Having a lot of cheap redundancy just makes for a more robust system that can more reliably put out good content. As far as I can tell, it doesn't cost them much more to pay the same researchers and concept art designers to brainstorm one civ versus a dozen, since at that point they aren't wasting expenses on sound design, asset design, and mechanical coding/balancing.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

A matter of opinion. Having spent a great deal of time studying PNW architecture, it looks very PNW to me.

I wouldn't doubt that probably the PNW might have been the original inspiration for the design. But as I've said it's also used by the Cahokia city-state, which means they've made it the generic architecture for North American native cultures.

I don't know if they could have, but they very clearly didn't. Traditional PNW art always uses black, red, blue-green, and green; meanwhile I'm not familiar of any particular association of those colors with the Cree. The brown and orange of their alternate jersey looks much more Cree.

I wouldn't say that Firaxis is always the best at choosing the best color combinations anyway, especially in the case of Australia who were orange and white in the beginning and then lime green and black before finally getting them right.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I wouldn't doubt that probably the PNW might have been the original inspiration for the design. But as I've said it's also used by the Cahokia city-state, which means they've made it the generic architecture for North American native cultures.


I wouldn't say that Firaxis is always the best at choosing the best color combinations anyway, especially in the case of Australia who were orange and white in the beginning and then lime green and black before finally getting them right.

india really should be saffron and green, not that purple and blue abomination

 

[PhoenicianGold]

india really should be saffron and green, not that purple and blue abomination

They do have that as their third and fourth jersey alternates. I suspect it was an attempt to make the icon more suitable for both modern and ancient/classical India (which is weird because the Wheel of Ashoka already does that...although I understand why they used a more distinct icon since so many civs use a sort of wheel or sun).

 

[Zaarin]

not that purple and blue abomination

It may not be appropriate for India, but I think that purple and aqua combo is gorgeous.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

It may not be appropriate for India, but I think that purple and aqua combo is gorgeous.

it looks better w/ chandragupta maurya where it’s purple on blue, but the gandhi version is ugly

 

[Zaarin]

it looks better w/ chandragupta maurya where it’s purple on blue, but the gandhi version is ugly

I like Chandy's better, too, but I think both look nice.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

india really should be saffron and green, not that purple and blue abomination

Interesting enough I found out sky blue is India's official colors for their national sports teams. Not sure about the purple.

Chandragupta's color scheme with the flower reminds me of a peacock for some reason, probably the emblem of the Maurya dynasty, so it fits for me.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Interesting enough I found out sky blue is India's official colors for their national sports teams. Not sure about the purple.

Chandragupta's color scheme with the flower reminds me of a peacock for some reason, probably the emblem of the Maurya dynasty, so it fits for me.

it’s more of a cerulean, but yeah India wears blue in cricket and soccer


back on topic though, I thought I’d make a mock up for the coast salish


Coast Salish — Chief Seattle

CA: Potlatch on the Puget: Tiles bordering coast provide +1 food, +1 culture. Domestic trade routes provide +2 food.

UU: (I’d say this is the hardest one to come up with, as the Surrounding Chinook, Haida and Tlingit have more notable unit options, so I ultimately went for a) Salishian Trader: Replaces Trader. +2 gold for each luxury resource in the destination city. Any city with an originating international trade route gains double the speed for accumulating strategic resources

UI: Longhouse: Replaces Neighborhood, is available after Machinery. +4 base housing, +1 additional housing based on appeal. No Neighborhood buildings can be built, but provides +4 food also.

LA: Seattle’s Great Speech: Warmonger penalties/grievances against the Coast Salish are doubled. The Coast Salish cannot be culture bombed. National Parks/Naturalists are available at Natural History,m be built on any land which has mountains and old-growth forests.

 

[Zaarin]

CA: Potlatch on the Puget: Tiles bordering coast provide +1 food, +1 culture.

I'd tie it to bonus resources, that way it affects both coastal resources like Fish and Crabs and land resources like Deer, Rice, Wheat, and Corn. The bounty of the forests and the bounty of seas were both important for making the PNW so stable and prosperous.

UU: (I’d say this is the hardest one to come up with, as the Surrounding Chinook, Haida and Tlingit have more notable unit options, so I ultimately went for a) Salishian Trader: Replaces Trader. +2 gold for each luxury resource in the destination city. Any city with an originating international trade route gains double the speed for accumulating strategic resources

The Salish bought Haida canoes just like everyone else in the region. I think you could get away with a war canoe. Option B would be a clubman replacing the warrior.

UI: Longhouse: Replaces Neighborhood, is available after Machinery. +4 base housing, +1 additional housing based on appeal. No Neighborhood buildings can be built, but provides +4 food also.

Make it a Unique Improvement limited to one-per-city, make it available with Astrology, and call it a Clan House (Longhouse evokes the Iroquois to me). If we were still talking about the Tlingit, you could call it a kwaan, but I don't know what the Salish call it.


Altogether I like the design, but I feel like it should also have some bonus for Relics. I don't know if relics were a big deal for the Salish, but they certainly were for the Northern PNW tribes (Tlingit, Haida, Tsimshian).

Your design also made me wish we could have the Nuu-chah-nulth or Makah, the only whalers of the region, who might get some interesting bonuses from Fishing Boats improving Luxury resources...(If you ever get the chance to visit the Makah reservation at Neah Bay, you should go. It's a fascinating place. The museum there is really nice, and the scenery is gorgeous. If you like fish, you can get fresh-caught salmon, and while I was there I had the best frybread I've ever had at a little restaurant called Pat's Place.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I'd tie it to bonus resources, that way it affects both coastal resources like Fish and Crabs and land resources like Deer, Rice, Wheat, and Corn. The bounty of the forests and the bounty of seas were both important for making the PNW so stable and prosperous.


The Salish bought Haida canoes just like everyone else in the region. I think you could get away with a war canoe. Option B would be a clubman replacing the warrior.


Make it a Unique Improvement limited to one-per-city, make it available with Astrology, and call it a Clan House (Longhouse evokes the Iroquois to me). If we were still talking about the Tlingit, you could call it a kwaan, but I don't know what the Salish call it.


Altogether I like the design, but I feel like it should also have some bonus for Relics. I don't know if relics were a big deal for the Salish, but they certainly were for the Northern PNW tribes (Tlingit, Haida, Tsimshian).

Your design also made me wish we could have the Nuu-chah-nulth or Makah, the only whalers of the region, who might get some interesting bonuses from Fishing Boats improving Luxury resources...(If you ever get the chance to visit the Makah reservation at Neah Bay, you should go. It's a fascinating place. The museum there is really nice, and the scenery is gorgeous. If you like fish, you can get fresh-caught salmon, and while I was there I had the best frybread I've ever had at a little restaurant called Pat's Place.

i’ve gone to the squamish/lilwat museum in Whistler, BC, but never Neah Bay.

i suppose the nomenclature for the longhouse could change but as far as i’m aware that’s what the pnw ones are called as well.

I suppose Haida War Canoes could work but I’d prefer something which would leave space open for the Haida should they be modded in so I suppose i’d go with the Clubman. I like the Bonus resource idea. I’m not sure about the relics, wdym they were important for the northern nations?

 

[SagarRathore]

Interesting enough I found out sky blue is India's official colors for their national sports teams. Not sure about the purple.

Blue had been historically used to represent deities often associated with Vishnu.It represent bravery,stable mind,depth of character in Hinduism.
Also India had been important producer of Indigo in History. The imported Indigo from India caused many problems for European producer before colonization nd industrialization.
Though one cannot say how much these factors influenced Indian sport Jersey.The best reason is given that Blue(asoka chakra) was only choice left among colours in Tri-Colour flag.

Historically Red colour is associated with Hinduism.But colours like Saffron,Green,White and Yellow also have important meaning in Hinduism.

I m kinda ok with whatever colour Firaxis choose for India or other asian culture though I feel most attractive,relevant schemes r reserved for Europe,Middle east nd new world.

 

[Zaarin]

i suppose the nomenclature for the longhouse could change but as far as i’m aware that’s what the pnw ones are called as well.

I've always heard them called clan houses, but the ones up north are more square so...

I’m not sure about the relics, wdym they were important for the northern nations?

I feel most qualified to talk about the Tlingit, but most of this applies to the Haida and I'm pretty sure the Tlingit as well. Inheritance of relics was an important part of Tlingit culture and were the property of the clan. These relics could be tangible (famous hats, clubs, and ceremonial regalia, for instance), intangible (heraldic designs, names, songs, dances, shamanic spirits), or somewhere in between (like usage rights to a particular patch of salal bushes or a particular salmon run). These relics could be traded in marriage or peace negotiations, including the non-tangible ones. Since Tlingit kinship was matrilineal, it was the clan matriarch who kept track of who had the current usage rights of these relics, especially names. (I can only say this specifically for the Tlingit, Haida, Eyak, Inuit, and Aleuts, but I believe it to be true for all of them: the names of the recently deceased could not be spoken aloud until the name had been passed to a new owner, and names were transferred to new owners--preferably direct descendants--as soon as possible. The name was believed to carry the soul with it. Names could also be given as gifts, and chiefly names were inherited when a new person filled the role so that they functioned both as names and as titles. An interesting aside, at least among the Tlingit, is that if one encountered another person with the same name, it was believed the two individuals shared the same soul and were to treat each other as relatives for the purposes of hospitality and the rights and obligations of kinship.) Anyway, I'm not certain how to represent that in game, but I think it would be interesting to give the Tlingit or Haida some bonus related to Relics.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

i suppose the nomenclature for the longhouse could change but as far as i’m aware that’s what the pnw ones are called as well.

I like the name Clan house a little better. At least it would fit with the Haida or Tlingit on account it would likely have a crest (totem) pole out front. I'm not quite sure if the Coastal Salish built the poles or not.

Longhouse works better with the Iroquois considering Haudenosaunee means "People of the Longhouse."

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I've always heard them called clan houses, but the ones up north are more square so...


I feel most qualified to talk about the Tlingit, but most of this applies to the Haida and I'm pretty sure the Tlingit as well. Inheritance of relics was an important part of Tlingit culture and were the property of the clan. These relics could be tangible (famous hats, clubs, and ceremonial regalia, for instance), intangible (heraldic designs, names, songs, dances, shamanic spirits), or somewhere in between (like usage rights to a particular patch of salal bushes or a particular salmon run). These relics could be traded in marriage or peace negotiations, including the non-tangible ones. Since Tlingit kinship was matrilineal, it was the clan matriarch who kept track of who had the current usage rights of these relics, especially names. (I can only say this specifically for the Tlingit, Haida, Eyak, Inuit, and Aleuts, but I believe it to be true for all of them: the names of the recently deceased could not be spoken aloud until the name had been passed to a new owner, and names were transferred to new owners--preferably direct descendants--as soon as possible. The name was believed to carry the soul with it. Names could also be given as gifts, and chiefly names were inherited when a new person filled the role so that they functioned both as names and as titles. An interesting aside, at least among the Tlingit, is that if one encountered another person with the same name, it was believed the two individuals shared the same soul and were to treat each other as relatives for the purposes of hospitality and the rights and obligations of kinship.) Anyway, I'm not certain how to represent that in game, but I think it would be interesting to give the Tlingit or Haida some bonus related to Relics.

I like the name Clan house a little better. At least it would fit with the Haida or Tlingit on account it would likely have a crest (totem) pole out front. I'm not quite sure if the Coastal Salish built the poles or not.

Longhouse works better with the Iroquois considering Haudenosaunee means "People of the Longhouse."

In terms of the totem poles, the Coast Salish did not make those.

The relics culture was also de emphasized if not nonexistent in coast salish culture. They had a lot of art culture though, maybe they could get a bonus to great artist points

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Data mining from the May 2020 update revealed some as-yet unused effects and abilities. One involves getting a free Eureka and Inspiration upon completing a trade route with a foreign civilization for the first time. Perhaps that will be part of Portugal's ability.

I know this was mentioned a while back but it got me to thinking that this could also be an Iroquois ability considering they were originally able to acquire firearms and other "European goods" with the Dutch first and then the English.

 

[Zaarin]

I know this was mentioned a while back but it got me to thinking that this could also be an Iroquois ability considering they were originally able to acquire firearms and other "European goods" with the Dutch first and then the English.

Maybe, but aside from their profitable trade with the Dutch the Iroquois had a tendency to take things rather than ask for them. I have a hard time seeing them as a trade-centric civ. More like a tall agricultural/industrial civ with a heaping helping of raiding (not really a Domination civ, though--the Iroquois were more about raiding and pillaging than conquest).

 

[Patine]

Maybe, but aside from their profitable trade with the Dutch the Iroquois had a tendency to take things rather than ask for them. I have a hard time seeing them as a trade-centric civ. More like a tall agricultural/industrial civ with a heaping helping of raiding (not really a Domination civ, though--the Iroquois were more about raiding and pillaging than conquest).

Is that where the old, politically incorrect term, "Indian giver," comes from?