[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[PhoenicianGold]

It makes sense, sumer is the baseplate: the civ to learn in, the civ to understand the game with, because it was, in essence, ‘the first civ’

was it poorly designed when it comes to sumer? perhaps, but not necessarily terribly so—in my mind, it’s not that it isn’t representative of sumer, it’s just not the best representative of sumer. There were better leader choices than Gilgamesh, but Gilga is definitely the best known, and he’s undoubtedly a big personality and at least we know he existed.

That's precisely my thought. I think Egypt was sacrificed in the same way for the sake of game design. And I don't mind that a few well-known areas of history are perverted a bit more for the sake of fun. Kind of like how fantasy novels, although referencing history, aren't expected to be totally historically inaccurate; their references draw attention to themselves and encourage conversation about the real history which inspired them. Nothing is exactly "misrepresented" as long as most people are aware that creative liberties were taken and there's a wealth of historical information to explore behind it.

As one of my favorite historical figures, I’m a bit disappointed that Cyrus was portrayed the way he was. He shouldn’t be a scheming, devious guy, which feels like they designed him around the Massagatae myths about him, for the sake of building an in-game meta with him and Tomyris. He was a kind, benevolent leader, a powerful conquerer but a even better administrator. The Satrapy system was invented by him, and he freed the jewish people from enslavement in Babylon. He was noted for his religious and cultural acceptance and skill in incorporating new land and keeping it peaceful. He’s without a doubt the best leader to represent Achaemenid Persia in my mind, and alongside Khosrow II, the best to represent pre-islamic Persia as a whole.

I was disappointed as well. The Tomyris legend is cute but ultimately a pretty small part of history and I would prefer it have been restricted to how the Scythian civ is portrayed, not to bleed over into other civs with much longer and deeper histories.

also, i doubt the devs have even heard of the kushans. I don’t think they’re even a possibility at the present moment. Maybe if we get a well-done popular mod for them, but atm, we are not getting them

I think there is a very good chance we will get a civ occupying Afghanistan/Pakistan/Uzbekistan. And since I am not completely confident it will be the Timurids (although I think that Timur is such a prominent historical figure he might carry them into existence like Alexander and Bolivar), I am open to the possibilty that the devs choose a different civ to occupy the area like the Kushans or the Durrani. So the Kushans really only managed to move out of "unlikely" by virtue of occupying highly desirable real estate.

 

[Ziad]

Palermo
Cagliari

*yells in Phoenician*

 

[Zaarin]

I think there is a very good chance we will get a civ occupying Afghanistan/Pakistan/Uzbekistan.

I hope you're right because Central Asia could really use some love. It's such a blind spot in public consciousness, however, that I have a hard time being confident it will happen. There's also the caveat that we are well-stocked on steppe raider civs so a Central Asian civ really needs to capitalize on the Silk Road as a mercantile/culture civ (it's also helpful that even if your average Westerner knows nothing of Central Asian history, they've at least heard the term "Silk Road" before).

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I hope you're right because Central Asia could really use some love. It's such a blind spot in public consciousness, however, that I have a hard time being confident it will happen. There's also the caveat that we are well-stocked on steppe raider civs so a Central Asian civ really needs to capitalize on the Silk Road as a mercantile/culture civ (it's also helpful that even if your average Westerner knows nothing of Central Asian history, they've at least heard the term "Silk Road" before).

I mean the downside is that I think the option is all-but limited to the Timurids/Mughals/Gurkhani. That's the only civ from that region that has been routinely brought up and consistently high in the fan polls year after year. So it's the only one that was either likely to catch the eye of the devs and/or reinforce their decision as being a marketable one.

 

[TeddyMain]

Alright I guess I can put in my two-cents.

Already Included
Most Likely
Somewhat Likely
Unlikely
Very Unlikely

Previously-Included Civs
Assyria
Austria
Babylon
Byzantium
Britons (Boudica's Celts)
Denmark
Ethiopia
Gaul (Brennus' Celts)
Hawai'i (Kamehameha's Polynesia)
Hittites
Huns
Iroquois
Italy (Dandolo's Venice)
Maya
Morocco (or Berbers?)
Portugal
Shoshone
Siam
Sioux
Songhai

Popular Suggestions New to the Franchise
Apache/Navajo
Ashanti/Benin
Bulgaria/Romania
Burma
Cherokee/Creek
Gran Colombia
Goths
Ireland
Kilwa/Swahili/Oman
Kushans
Palmyra/Syria
Timurids/Gurkhani
Vietnam
Zimbabwe/Mutapa

 

[Zaarin]

I mean the downside is that I think the option is all-but limited to the Timurids/Mughals/Gurkhani. That's the only civ from that region that has been routinely brought up and consistently high in the fan polls year after year. So it's the only one that was either likely to catch the eye of the devs and/or reinforce their decision as being a marketable one.

I balk at this because the likeliest design for the Gurkhani is just going to be Mongols 2.0, but I think there's design space there to do something different with them. They certainly continued to maintain the Silk Road, their architecture is some of the most distinctive and instantly recognizable in the world, and over the course of their civilization they followed at least three different religions (Manichaeism, Buddhism, Islam) so I think they could be designed as a classic Silk Road civ instead of yet-another-horse-raider civ if the devs chose to do so.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I balk at this because the likeliest design for the Gurkhani is just going to be Mongols 2.0, but I think there's design space there to do something different with them. They certainly continued to maintain the Silk Road, their architecture is some of the most distinctive and instantly recognizable in the world, and over the course of their civilization they followed at least three different religions (Manichaeism, Buddhism, Islam) so I think they could be designed as a classic Silk Road civ instead of yet-another-horse-raider civ if the devs chose to do so.

They could be like a Monglia/Scythia but with a heavy production bias?

The reality is that much of the Eurasian continent has a strong horse culture. We are doomed to have every civ between Hungary and Mongolia have a cavalry unit, that's just the way of the world. Bearing that in mind, I can make peace with sliding more civs in between what we have as long as they have enough other things going for them.

 

[Ziad]

Ha.. Humankind just revealed the Haudenosaunee. They really should be included, although some of you have brought up the Navajo. I admit I don't know much about them.

 

[Zaarin]

They could be like a Monglia/Scythia but with a heavy production bias?

The reality is that much of the Eurasian continent has a strong horse culture. We are doomed to have every civ between Hungary and Mongolia have a cavalry unit, that's just the way of the world. Bearing that in mind, I can make peace with sliding more civs in between what we have as long as they have enough other things going for them.

Sure. I mean, we have more than ample evidence that the Proto-Indo-Europeans worshiped horses, and that filtered down to their descendants in varying degrees (not that horses were unique to them or that the Turkic Gurkhani were Indo-European). I don't object so much to having another cavalry UU--as a mostly peaceful player I rarely pay any attention to a civ's UU--I just don't want another civ built around warfare all day, every day.

Ha.. Humankind just revealed the Haudenosaunee. They really should be included, although some of you have brought up the Navajo. I admit I don't know much about them.

North America is large enough that someone new would be my first choice, though the Haudenosaunee are significant enough that if we had to have a staple it ought to be them. I'd pick the Haudenosaunee over the Navajo TBH.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Sure. I mean, we have more than ample evidence that the Proto-Indo-Europeans worshiped horses, and that filtered down to their descendants in varying degrees (not that horses were unique to them or that the Turkic Gurkhani were Indo-European). I don't object so much to having another cavalry UU--as a mostly peaceful player I rarely pay any attention to a civ's UU--I just don't want another civ built around warfare all day, every day.

I agree; no more domination civs. GC was already getting a tad lazy although I'm glad it made it in. Unless the devs switch to clone civs then I am totally fine with Scythia-as-the-Huns or Russia-as-Kievan-Rus'.

I do think that the Gurkhani made enough of a cultural impact that even a strict Timurids civ could find ways to be more infrastructure-oriented than other domination civs.

 

[The Kingmaker]

I find it remarkable that we’re more or less all agreed on the list of potential civs, if not the likelihood of the same.

Even so, there are some general trends to which everyone appears to be more or less attuned.

 

[pokiehl]

I find it remarkable that we’re more or less all agreed on the list of potential civs, if not the likelihood of the same.

Even so, there are some general trends to which everyone appears to be more or less attuned.

With all due respect, this thread is a self- reinforcing echo chamber of fewer than 10 active posters. No donknow how much of the "common knowledge" here is really applicable to the majority of the fanbase.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

As one of my favorite historical figures, I’m a bit disappointed that Cyrus was portrayed the way he was. He shouldn’t be a scheming, devious guy, which feels like they designed him around the Massagatae myths about him, for the sake of building an in-game meta with him and Tomyris. He was a kind, benevolent leader, a powerful conquerer but a even better administrator. The Satrapy system was invented by him, and he freed the jewish people from enslavement in Babylon. He was noted for his religious and cultural acceptance and skill in incorporating new land and keeping it peaceful. He’s without a doubt the best leader to represent Achaemenid Persia in my mind, and alongside Khosrow II, the best to represent pre-islamic Persia as a whole.

I think the acceptance and keeping the land peaceful is kind of supposed to be hinted in the loyalty bonus and occupied cities don't lose any of their yields but it is overlooked by the way he acts in game as the "I'm going to declare war on you at anytime" guy which is unfortunate.

It makes sense, sumer is the baseplate: the civ to learn in, the civ to understand the game with, because it was, in essence, ‘the first civ’

was it poorly designed when it comes to sumer? perhaps, but not necessarily terribly so—in my mind, it’s not that it isn’t representative of sumer, it’s just not the best representative of sumer. There were better leader choices than Gilgamesh, but Gilga is definitely the best known, and he’s undoubtedly a big personality and at least we know he existed.

I agree I don't have a problem with Gilgamesh being the leader from the Epic of Gilgamesh. I just wish the civ ability wasn't related to it either. I also don't mind that the ziggurat is buildable at the beginning of the game either considering they are the "Cradle of Civilization" which would have made a better name for the civ ability.

*yells in Phoenician*

There's no overlap in city names. Ziz is just the Phoenician name of present day Palermo, Italy.

 

[The Kingmaker]

With all due respect, this thread is a self- reinforcing echo chamber of fewer than 10 active posters. No donknow how much of the "common knowledge" here is really applicable to the majority of the fanbase.

Did I mention the majority of the fanbase?

Given the constant arguments back and forth here, I just found it remarkable that our handful of very different personalities were even approaching consensus on what we find likely.

I wasn’t trying to make any point beyond that.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I think there is a very good chance we will get a civ occupying Afghanistan/Pakistan/Uzbekistan. And since I am not completely confident it will be the Timurids (although I think that Timur is such a prominent historical figure he might carry them into existence like Alexander and Bolivar), I am open to the possibilty that the devs choose a different civ to occupy the area like the Kushans or the Durrani. So the Kushans really only managed to move out of "unlikely" by virtue of occupying highly desirable real estate.

Even then, I’m fairly certain the Ghaznavids are better known, had a more popular mod in civ 5, and would be closer associated to the fairly common ‘afghanistan’ request

Ha.. Humankind just revealed the Haudenosaunee. They really should be included, although some of you have brought up the Navajo. I admit I don't know much about them.

I’m quite bored of the Iroquois tbh. I have no problem with them, but i’d prefer someone new

Already Included
Most Likely
Somewhat Likely
Unlikely
Very Unlikely

Previously-Included Civs
Assyria - Somewhat Likely
Austria - Very Unlikely
Babylon - Most Likely
Byzantium - Most Likely (unfortunately)
Britons (Boudica's Celts) — Very Unlikely
Denmark - Very Unlikely
Ethiopia - Already Included
Gaul (Brennus' Celts) - Somewhat Likely
Hawai'i (Kamehameha's Polynesia) - Unlikely
Hittites - Somewhat Likely
Huns - Very Unlikely
Iroquois - Somewhat Likely
Italy (Dandolo's Venice) - Unlikely
Maya - Already Included
Morocco (or Berbers?) — These should really be two entries, though mutually exclusive in terms of the game, but i’d say Unlikely
Portugal — Most Likely
Shoshone - Very Unlikely
Siam - Very Unlikely
Sioux - Very Unlikely
Songhai - Very Unlikely

Popular Suggestions New to the Franchise
Apache/Navajo - Somewhat Likely
Ashanti/Benin - Unlikely
Bulgaria/Romania - Somewhat Likely
Burma - Somewhat Likely
Cherokee/Creek - Very Unlikely
Gran Colombia - Already Included
Goths - Very Unlikely
Ireland - Somewhat Likely
Kilwa/Swahili/Oman -Somewhat Likely
Kushans - Very Unlikely
Palmyra/Syria - Unlikely
Timurids/Gurkhani - Somewhat Likely
Ghaznavids - Unlikely
Philippines - Somewhat Likely
Vietnam -Most Likely
Zimbabwe/Mutapa - Very Unlikely
Chola - Very Unlikely
Salish - Somewhat Likely
Tlingit - Somewhat Likely

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

Lead Producer of the NFP on designing new Civs https://gamedaily.biz/article/1750/...pass-and-keeping-the-game-fresh-four-years-on

To that end, Bonacorso said that developing a new leader or civilization first and foremost about introducing more variety into the Civ VI experience. The civ development process begins with gameplay style, followed by seeking a historical analogue.
“For the Maya, for example, we wanted a civilization which specialized in compact empires, and where city placement was key, similar to the way district placement is a critical part of the strategy of Japan,” she explained. “We gave them some interesting bonuses and penalties that encouraged players to build in this way, and we based them on the Maya, because of the way Mayan cities were built in the geography of southern Mexico and Central America.”

This is how it looks from a game designer perspective. First, you think about a mechanic, then you add narrative flavor. The fans do it exactly the opposite way And now think what comes first en egg or a chicken? Because we are talking here only about a chickens.
The most probable Civilizations are those who provide unique gameplay guys.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Lead Producer of the NFP on designing new Civs https://gamedaily.biz/article/1750/...pass-and-keeping-the-game-fresh-four-years-on

This is how it looks from a game designer perspective. First, you think about a mechanic, then you add narrative flavor. The fans do it exactly the opposite way And now think what comes first en egg or a chicken? Because we are talking here only about a chickens.
The most probable Civilizations are those who provide unique gameplay guys.

i agree, but the issue is you can theoretically come up with a unique gameplay mechanic for any civ—that same mechanic would’ve made total sense for Babylon or Venice, imo.

I can come up with a ‘unique gameplay mechanic’ for pretty much any of those requested civs that would make them significantly appealing to Firaxis. That’s why it doesn’t necessarily help us to discuss which civs would have fun game mechanics when discussing possible civs.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Lead Producer of the NFP on designing new Civs https://gamedaily.biz/article/1750/...pass-and-keeping-the-game-fresh-four-years-on

This is how it looks from a game designer perspective. First, you think about a mechanic, then you add narrative flavor. The fans do it exactly the opposite way And now think what comes first en egg or a chicken? Because we are talking here only about a chickens.
The most probable Civilizations are those who provide unique gameplay guys.

Not necessarily all the time. I've been thinking about a civ that can be exploration focused for a long time. It just so happens I think that Portugal would fit that the best at the moment.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

With all due respect, this thread is a self- reinforcing echo chamber of fewer than 10 active posters. No donknow how much of the "common knowledge" here is really applicable to the majority of the fanbase.

I mean point taken . . . but at the same time how many civs are already in the game? Most the low hanging fruit has been picked already, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if people still interested enough to wonder who's next might independently come up with similar looking lists.

 

[The Kingmaker]

From the article:

Weather [sic] that means more leaders and civs or an entirely new numbered sequel she wouldn’t say. All we know for certain is that beyond the New Frontier pass, there is more Civilization on the horizon.

Let's hope that means we're getting a Final Frontier pass with double the fun!