Imma just point out, I think Mali are supposed to be replacement of Morocco or Morocco also. If I remember correctly, when they introduced Mali, they specifically said they liked Morcco in Civ 5 allowing players to play in desert and wanted that in Civ 6. So Mali very well can cover Songhai like Khmer covers Siam and at the same time cover Morocco mechanically.
That doesn't prove much, it's only in the context of "replacing things from Civ V", Morocco could very well return replacing something completely different If speaking about mechanics.
Fair. Point being, we already have Akkad and Babylon in the region and Assyria has never been regarded as "necessary" on the level that Babylon is. Technically none of these city-states need to be in the game, but it would feel rather weird to have city-states for polities like Lithuania, the Zapotec, Wales, while the game contains nothing with reference to Austria, Denmark, or Thailand.
Imma just point out, I think Mali are supposed to be replacement of Morocco or Morocco also. If I remember correctly, when they introduced Mali, they specifically said they liked Morcco in Civ 5 allowing players to play in desert and wanted that in Civ 6. So Mali very well can cover Songhai like Khmer covers Siam and at the same time cover Morocco mechanically.
That doesn't prove much, it's only in the context of "replacing things from Civ V", Morocco could very well return replacing something completely different If speaking about mechanics.
Did they specifically say that? Anyways I wasn't under the impression that Morocco would come back anyway but it's not like it's the only option in North Africa.
second, constantinople is effectively the same city as istanbul, so there’s no good reason for it to be city state. (before you bring up the Tenochtitlan/Mexico City thing, Mexico City was built on top of Tenochtitlan after it was razed. It’s not the same city when it comes to continuity, the way Istanbul is literally Constantinople
I don't want Constantinople to be a city state either but not necessarily because they are part of the same city, considering we have Ancient Rome and the Vatican City.
I don't want Constantinople to be a city state either but not necessarily because they are part of the same city, considering we have Ancient Rome and the Vatican City.
the Vatican is located outside of the bounds of Ancient Rome. It only got surrounded by rome as the city grew during the medieval and renaissance eras. And despite being inside Rome, it’s always function as it’s own local polity, even if it hasn’t always been independent
well long into ottoman rule, they still called it constantinople, or turkish transliteration of such. During Suleiman’s rule, it was known mostly as Konstantinyye, the ottoman turkish transliteration of Constantinople. Istanbul was a small neighborhood within Constantinople and eventually became the common name for it towards the end of Ottoman rule (1800s or so)
..
Also MoorTires is a repeat of the capital letters TM in SoonTM, but reversed. One starts with an M the other ends in an M. One starts with S the other ends in S. Both have two "o"s as their second and third letter.
well long into ottoman rule, they still called it constantinople, or turkish transliteration of such. During Suleiman’s rule, it was known mostly as Konstantinyye, the ottoman turkish transliteration of Constantinople. Istanbul was a small neighborhood within Constantinople and eventually became the common name for it towards the end of Ottoman rule (1800s or so)
well long into ottoman rule, they still called it constantinople, or turkish transliteration of such. During Suleiman’s rule, it was known mostly as Konstantinyye, the ottoman turkish transliteration of Constantinople. Istanbul was a small neighborhood within Constantinople and eventually became the common name for it towards the end of Ottoman rule (1800s or so)
Did they specifically say that? Anyways I wasn't under the impression that Morocco would come back anyway but it's not like it's the only option in North Africa.
Well I think I've seen a few people here suggest Berbers, and Dihya would be one good leader option there. Berbers do more for variety than Morocco since it's not a second culturally Arab civilization.
I kind of feel like Arabia in a way is supposed to represent all of the Arabian peninsula and the surrounding areas influenced by Islam. That being said Oman did as you mention conquered the Swahili coast but then there's the problem of also removing not only Muscat as a city-state but probably Zanzibar too. Considering Zanzibar is related to an achievement I'm not sure it's going to happen.
I don't think including Oman means they would need to get rid of those city states. They could stick to peninsular cities on the city list.
And yes, I agree 'Arabia' represents a very broad region and culture, but, I don't think that is necessarily a restriction. Leaders of Macedon would have been expected to be alternate leaders fro Greece I would say, but they decided to split it off. Oman is in a funny corner of the middle east and as you mention has has done it's own thing to a significant extent with it's influence in Africa, so I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say it's distinct enough to be given it's own civilization.
I think a lot of people want more Indian civilizations, and I don't see how they can keep adding new civilizations from all over the world but continue neglecting a region that's around a fifth of the global population. So I'm guessing that at some point they will start to move away from excluding more specific civilization options because broader civilizations covering their cultural group already exist.
I don't think including Oman means they would need to get rid of those city states. They could stick to peninsular cities on the city list.
And yes, I agree 'Arabia' represents a very broad region and culture, but, I don't think that is necessarily a restriction. Leaders of Macedon would have been expected to be alternate leaders fro Greece I would say, but they decided to split it off. Oman is in a funny corner of the middle east and as you mention has has done it's own thing to a significant extent with it's influence in Africa, so I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say it's distinct enough to be given it's own civilization.
I think a lot of people want more Indian civilizations, and I don't see how they can keep adding new civilizations from all over the world but continue neglecting a region that's around a fifth of the global population. So I'm guessing that at some point they will start to move away from excluding more specific civilization options because broader civilizations covering their cultural group already exist.
I agree with this. Just because Poland controlled Lithuania or Georgia/Persia controlled Armenia doesn't mean we didn't get Vilnius or Yerevan. Or, as a clearer analogue, we still have Fez along with Arabia despite the Umayyads spanning both the Western and Eastern Caliphates. Given that the Kilwa Sultanate preceded the Omani empire, the city-state I think more than deserves to stay as something flavorful (heh) for Oman to interact with in the same way India has Lahore, Mohenjo-Daro, and sort-of Kandy, or Gran Colombia has Hunza.
If anything, I think the fact that we have effectively two Omani city-states (plus Kilwa Kisiwani), it suggests to me that the region was in the forefront of civ discussions and that one of the two city-states was planned to be upgraded at some point.
the Vatican is located outside of the bounds of Ancient Rome. It only got surrounded by rome as the city grew during the medieval and renaissance eras. And despite being inside Rome, it’s always function as it’s own local polity, even if it hasn’t always been independent
Yes but the reason I don't want Constantinople as a city-state has nothing to do with Istanbul being in the game. It's because it should be the Byzantine Empire/Eastern Roman Empire capital.
If Ra-Kadet and Alexandria can also exist in the same game I don't see why those two can't either as long as the name and spelling is different.
Well I think I've seen a few people here suggest Berbers, and Dihya would be one good leader option there. Berbers do more for variety than Morocco since it's not a second culturally Arab civilization.
Yes but the reason I don't want Constantinople as a city-state has nothing to do with Istanbul being in the game. It's because it should be the Byzantine Empire/Eastern Roman Empire capital.
If Ra-Kadet and Alexandria can also exist in the same game I don't see why those two can't either as long as the name and spelling is different.
Yeah and tbf even in the off chance we didn't get Byzantium or a Byzantine Rome leader, I don't think we need Constantinople representing Byzantium as a city-state. That would just feel weird.
Whereas I think many people would agree that if Austria or Denmark are in fact not in the game, we probably should have Vienna and Copenhagen city-states.
Yes I'd vote for a Berbers civ with her or even a Classical Era Numidia.
As far as wikipedia says, it was still called "Numidia" when Dihya ruled, so technically we could still have a Numidia, led by Diyha, with classical era units.
Yeah and tbf even in the off chance we didn't get Byzantium or a Byzantine Rome leader, I don't think we need Constantinople representing Byzantium as a city-state. That would just feel weird.
Whereas I think many people would agree that if Austria or Denmark are in fact not in the game, we probably should have Vienna and Copenhagen city-states.
Can you upgrade levied units and could it be into one of your UUs? If so there should be some sort of achievement when Matthias levy's Vienna's units and you upgrade a courser into a Huszar.
As far as wikipedia says, it was still called "Numidia" when Dihya ruled, so technically we could still have a Numidia, led by Diyha, with classical era units.
I did see that. I don't know how accurate it is. Dihya with a Numidian cavalry UU would be interesting but it would be possibly the third light cavalry UU.
Of course that would mean the chances of the Byzantines getting a unique naval unit go up.
Can you upgrade levied units and could it be into one of your UUs? If so there should be some sort of achievement when Matthias levy's Vienna's units and you upgrade a courser into a Huszar.
Sure. Hungary can also now upgrade vampires into vampires-on-horses.
I did see that. I don't know how accurate it is. Dihya with a Numidian cavalry UU would be interesting but it would be possibly the third light cavalry UU.
Of course that would mean the chances of the Byzantines getting a unique naval unit go up.
I would kind of rage if we got a cataphract again for the Byzzies. Also, we're just gonna have a lot of horse UUs, that's just history (and we already have five unique swordsmen). I say balance it out by having more civs with boat UUs: bring on Oman, Italy, Denmark, Chola, Vietnam, Tlingit, Inuit, Pirates.
Did they specifically say that? Anyways I wasn't under the impression that Morocco would come back anyway but it's not like it's the only option in North Africa.
They certainly didn't specifically say they don't want Morocco back, I just find it implied the same way as Mali replacing Polynesia in their eyes. It's somewhere in the livestream I think. I hope, that is, it's this one.
They certainly didn't specifically say they don't want Morocco back, I just find it implied the same way as Mali replacing Polynesia in their eyes. It's somewhere in the livestream I think. I hope, that is, it's this one.
I think that whatever North African civ we're getting, it likely isn't going to be a desert-oriented commerce civ like Mali. I don't really think domination fits either. The Numidians/Mauri/Berbers mostly engaged in conquest on behalf of whichever empire paid them. Like Carthage, Rome, Byzantines, or the Caliphate.
As far as wikipedia says, it was still called "Numidia" when Dihya ruled, so technically we could still have a Numidia, led by Diyha, with classical era units.
The region was called Numidia, but she led a tribe of Chaoui Berbers. It wouldn’t be accurate for her to lead Numidia, but a numidian unit in the Berber civ wouldn’t be wrong.
I’d imagine the Berbers would most likely be a land Norway. Pillaging rather than coastal raids, and maybe if we’re lucky they’ll get access to the Barbary Corsair too (it would be interesting for civ’s to share a UU, and Ottomans have another UU also so it wouldn’t compromise their differentiation. If the berbers also got a second UU, specifically Numidian cavalry or something, I could imagine it would be really interesting design)
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