[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Jkchart]

To some degree, though I'm very grateful to finally see a culture-focused Greece instead of the perpetual Alexander the Warmonger civ, which is very unrepresentative of Greek history...

I will take Macedon so we can have an actually Greek Greece.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Well, yes, but actually no--insofar as Carthage has always unfortunately been portrayed as a warmongery civ because of the Punic Wars, while calling it Phoenicia allowed them to focus on trade and thalassocracy for once.

In that case Greece is new because it's less warmongery now, well at least with Pericles.

Yeah I don't think giving a civ a different angle makes it a different civ; most of the civs in VI operate differently than they did in V.

Though I do agree that Phoenicia falls somewhere between new and old, where although it is technically returning Carthage to the game there was such an aesthetic and mechanical overhaul it feels pretty much like a different civ altogether. To a lesser extent Maori, and to an even lesser extent, Hungary.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

To some degree, though I'm very grateful to finally see a culture-focused Greece instead of the perpetual Alexander the Warmonger civ, which is very unrepresentative of Greek history...

I'm still waiting for science oriented Greece. Or at least scientific and cultural.

Though I do agree that Phoenicia falls somewhere between new and old, where although it is technically returning Carthage to the game there was such an aesthetic and mechanical overhaul it feels pretty much like a different civ altogether. To a lesser extent Maori, and to an even lesser extent, Hungary.

Hungary is completely new though. Austria just stole their Huszar for their unique unit in Civ 5 and now they have it back.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I'm still waiting for science oriented Greece. Or at least scientific and cultural.

Hm, come to think of it, the Athens/Sparta split does seem to deprive Greece of a science focus. Seems if you move away from one Greek cliche, you just land in another one.

Also, again, I think the fact that Pericles' agenda is "Delian League," like Eleanor's "Angevin Empire" and Chandragupta's "Maurya Empire," means he was actually the second leader added to the game. I think Gorgo was intended to be the "primary" leader for Greece.

Hungary is completely new though. Austria just stole their Huszar for their unique unit in Civ 5 and now they have it back.

Shhhhhh don't tell Austria that. I don't want it coming back.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Hm, come to think of it, the Athens/Sparta split does seem to deprive Greece of a science focus. Seems if you move away from one Greek cliche, you just land in another one.

I nominate Syracuse next for Civ 7 then.

Also, again, I think the fact that Pericles' agenda is "Delian League," like Eleanor's "Angevin Empire" and Chandragupta's "Maurya Empire," means he was actually the second leader added to the game. I think Gorgo was intended to be the "primary" leader for Greece.

I don't know about that. It may just be a coincidence considering Angevin Empire and Maurya Empire were the best names to fit their agenda.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I nominate Syracuse next for Civ 7 then.

I would be fine with this. Not gonna happen because now fans expect and demand Leonidas, but we can dream.

I don't know about that. It may just be a coincidence considering Angevin Empire and Maurya Empire were the best names to fit their agenda.

It's unprovable, just some tinfoil theory I like. Also gives me hope that Saladin was swapped for the "real" Arabian leader who is still forthcoming.

 

[8housesofelixir]

Hm, come to think of it, the Athens/Sparta split does seem to deprive Greece of a science focus. Seems if you move away from one Greek cliche, you just land in another one.

Speaking of "Ancient Greece", most people will think of Athens and Sparta. But in terms of scientific accomplishments, most of ancient Greek "scientists" were from regions outside the Greek proper, especially Ionia.

Thales and Pythagoras were Ionians, Archimedes was Syracusan, Eratosthenes was from Cyrenaica, and Euclid was probably born in Near East. Diophantus and Ptolemy, well, they were technically Romans.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I nominate Syracuse next for Civ 7 then.

I would take them.

Syracuse and then sparta with leonidas would be fun, or remove sparta and bring back alex as greece proper with a syracusian leader and subvert the athens/sparta stuff

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

It's unprovable, just some tinfoil theory I like. Also gives me hope that Saladin was swapped for the "real" Arabian leader who is still forthcoming.

I think Saladin would have originally made sense as a conqueror/holy war leader while another leader could have the science bonuses. Unless there's another pass or he's reworked into being the other Egyptian leader people wanted besides Cleo, I'm not sure it will happen.

I would take them.

Syracuse and then sparta with leonidas would be fun, or remove sparta and bring back alex as greece proper with a syracusian leader and subvert the athens/sparta stuff

In reality I would want a Greece focused around recruiting Great People, mainly scientists and engineers, but also writers etc. Then you can have the city state bonuses go to Pericles with Athens and you can let Alexander return to be the militaristic side like Gorgo was.

 

[SMcM]

He was also in Civ4

Umm, I was literally responding to someone saying he was in Civ 4, pointing out he was in Civlization Revolution as well. Not sure how you misunderstood that.

I think Saladin would have originally made sense as a conqueror/holy war leader while another leader could have the science bonuses. Unless there's another pass or he's reworked into being the other Egyptian leader people wanted besides Cleo, I'm not sure it will happen. .

I'd hate to see Saladin lead Egypt, the Egypt civilization obviously represents Ancient Egypt and not Arabised Egypt.

 

[8housesofelixir]

In reality I would want a Greece focused around recruiting Great People, mainly scientists and engineers, but also writers etc. Then you can have the city state bonuses go to Pericles with Athens and you can let Alexander return to be the militaristic side like Gorgo was.

Yeah, historically, Athens, Alexandria, and Syracuse were all famous "great people collector" in the Ancient World; scientists, engineers, writers, etc.

Russia and Brazil? Less so.

 

[Zaarin]

I'm still waiting for science oriented Greece. Or at least scientific and cultural.

Meh, they "borrowed" most of their science from Egypt and Babylon anyway. TBH, the way Civ6 split up the tech and civics tree, a cultural Greece feels the most "right" to me. I associate Greece first and foremost with philosophy and the development of theories of government.

Also gives me hope that Saladin was swapped for the "real" Arabian leader who is still forthcoming.

I rather suspect that Saladin was originally Harun al-Rashid but they swapped out his name. His abilities feel much more appropriate for an Abbasid.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'd hate to see Saladin lead Egypt, the Egypt civilization obviously represents Ancient Egypt and not Arabised Egypt.

Yeah that last part was a joke. He won't lead Egypt.

Yeah, historically, Athens, Alexandria, and Syracuse were all famous "great people collector" in the Ancient World; scientists, engineers, writers, etc.

Russia and Brazil? Less so.

Well I can understand collecting Great People in being Pedro's ability at least.
Russia getting the culture great people works too.
At least the free Wild Card policy can let you start recruiting Great People before anybody else at least but I feel like Greece needs more bonuses toward them like maybe the Acropolis granting scientists and engineer points as well.

 

[SMcM]

Yeah that last part was a joke. He won't lead Egypt.

Someone should tell that the guy that made Nasser a leader for both Egypt and Arabia in a Civ 6 mod...

 

[8housesofelixir]

Well I can understand collecting Great People in being Pedro's ability at least. Russia getting the culture great people works too.

I aware that both Peter and Pedro were devoted patrons of arts and sciences. My problem it that this characteristic is oddly implemented.

Pedro was a devoted patron of art and science; then why would he be angry at me when I have more great admirals and great merchants than him.

As for Peter, he did draw many foreign engineers and ethnographers to Russia; but as far as I can tell, IRL he didn't store all these people in the lavras and monasteries. And I don't think he stored all the Russian writers, painters, and musicians in the monasteries either.

In general, I think the civ-specific great people bonuses can be more unique - Bolivar and his Comandante Generals is a great new direction. Acropolis granting some scientists and engineer points, as you mentioned, will be an interesting idea (although it could make Pericles more powerful, he already have a large GWAM collection in his hands, second only to Peter). Maybe the acropolis of Syracuse can grant some engineer points.

 

[Zaarin]

As for Peter, he did draw many foreign engineers and ethnographers to Russia; but as far as I can tell, IRL he didn't store all these people in the lavras and monasteries. And I don't think he stored all the Russian writers, painters, and musicians in the monasteries either.

Fyodor Dostoevsky was a big admirer of the monastic system. That's about as close as I can get you.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Pedro was a devoted patron of art and science; then why would he be angry at me when I have more great admirals and great merchants than him.

I agree that the agenda is implemented weird. I like the idea of the agenda system but some leaders, especially Pedro, should be changed. He should be angry if you aren't recruiting enough great people probably.

As for Peter, he did draw many foreign engineers and ethnographers to Russia; but as far as I can tell, IRL he didn't store all these people in the lavras and monasteries. And I don't think he stored all the Russian writers, painters, and musicians in the monasteries either.

No they are used to clear out barbarian camps apparently.
I think it's just the idea that the Russian orthodox church, or maybe early Slavic religion and folklore, and Russian culture are kind of intertwined.

 

[8housesofelixir]

Meh, they "borrowed" most of their science from Egypt and Babylon anyway.

Sometimes, facts like this makes me thinking that, Peter's LA - international trade routes will grant Russia some extra science/culture for every technology/civic the other civ has that Russia doesn't - should be a more general game mechanic, act as a major source of science income, equally important as campus (preferably in civ 7, who knows).

It's not like the scientific advancements are all made by people who stay in the campus for the entirety of their life, many technologies were evolved through communication. The technology of gunpowder and firearm is a perfect example of this situation, and all the "Gunpowder Empires" (Timurid is one of them!) were alongside the Silk Road.

Edit: This can also enhance the importance of trade routes, as well as reduce the possibility of someone quietly run away in the science output.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I rather suspect that Saladin was originally Harun al-Rashid but they swapped out his name. His abilities feel much more appropriate for an Abbasid.

I wish. I like Harun al-Rashid as a historical figure a lot and he’s a better fit for what they wanted out of Arabia anyway

if they want an Ayyubid next time, i’d like to suggest Shajar al-Durr as a faith, diplomacy and espionage leader alternative.

 

[8housesofelixir]

I wish. I like Harun al-Rashid as a historical figure a lot and he’s a better fit for what they wanted out of Arabia anyway

Harun al-Rashid is surely a better fit for the current science-focused Arabia, he was an important patron of the Translation Movement, and established the the direct predecessor of the House of Wisdom.

I think Saladin is just far too famous.