[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Morningcalm]

No preview for Maya or Gran Colombia today makes me sad. Oh well, here's hoping we get something soon.

 

[Red Adept]

It’s all fun and good and, to be honest, I’m OVERHYPED about this (and the new DLC system seems promising), but let’s be serious one moment about all the speculations, and more precisely about this image:

A lot of people are saying that it is a Mayan observatory, meaning that the Mayan UI is a replacement for the campus. Yes, I mean, it can be that. But is it? I think not. Let us decompose this picture, will us?

What I see in this building is red marble, and you CAN’T objectively object it (if you do, you’re a liar, and that’s a fact). The dome over it is also completely distinctive. It says, it screams Basilica. It’s a Basilica, hence a replacement for the Holy Site district. So, here’s the first clue: one of the unique civilization (and shortly released) will be a civilization religion-focused. So, maybe, a Basicila with red marble, is it Byzantium?

Wrong.

The other clue is this other picture:

It seems like the famous Soothsayer we all talk so much about. Byzantium are not really good about soothsaying, because if they were, they wouldn’t have been plundered by some 90 years old blind merchant and would have survived the Ottomans (because, as everyone knows, the biggest weakness of the Ottoman Empire were soothsayers; I know it because I read it on a Wikipedia page I edited so).

So, who might that be? Well, take a look about the soothsayers: if you squint enough, the vehicle-thingy has like two snakes coming out of it. Maybe… dragons? A Scandinavian civ? Don’t be silly, they didn’t had soothsayers, they had lawspeakers. So, which other civilization might it be? Well, it has to be a civilization that has something to do with snakes. In the sense of a civilization that has a very peculiar myth that a holy man just throw the snakes out of the island with the help of a holy salmon? Saint Patrick, anyone?

We have another clue that I drag in it without any basis or relation with the other, but it's not that that will stops me. We’re here to speculate after all. And this clue is: secret societies. “But”, will you say in your bewildering naïveté, “secret societies are tied to Ethiopia!”. And you’re RIGHT. But what are Ethiopian famous for, besides proving once again that Italian are the laughing stock of modern era European powers? Christianity. And which other people were known for their love of Christianity? Ireland.

And thus, will all this clues – clues that I won’t put side to side because you might see that the reasoning stands on nothing but my wild imagination – we have the undeniable and absolute proof that Ireland, led by Saint Patrick, will be one of the new civilizations.

Another victory for logic. Yeah.

You had me laughing out loud. My wife watches The Masked Singer and I was reading this in Kim Jeong's voice as it's in the style of his guesses of who the Singer is.

 

[Zaarin]

Unless the Manchu were a different civ, a concept which Chinese discourse rejects.

I mean, they speak a Tungusic language and ethnically are more closely related to Koreans than Chinese. I wouldn't have a problem with a Qing leader of China, but I also wouldn't have a problem with a Manchu civ (except that it would be taking a slot that I might rather give to someone else). I don't think we need to reject Chinese views that the Yuan and Qing are Chinese, but I also don't think Chinese historiography need be regarded as definitive.

 

[Loerwyn]

Do we have any idea as to the structure of the pass? I'm asking more for a friend than myself, but I would hope it's one of those products where the price goes down the more you buy, like a bundle?

 

[ferretbacon]

No preview for Maya or Gran Colombia today makes me sad. Oh well, here's hoping we get something soon.

I'm really surprised. I assumed they announced on a Monday so they could do one first look today and the other one next Tuesday before the first pack comes out next Thursday.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

As mentioned above, the 5th pack states that only R&F is needed to play. You don't need GS for this pack. GS has the same components of R&F, but the Civs are different. If you only buy GS you still get the loyalty system, dark/golden ages and governors but no Korea, Zulu, Scotland and no Mongolia. Which means it is highly likely that the new leader will require one of these Civs. Kublai Khan just seems the most likely alt leader. I could also see William of Orange too paired with Portugal if they went that route but I'd also like Vietnam too so that's why I'm sticking with that. I like Wilhelmina as a leader anyway.

I think Kublai is the most likely option, since he's one of the only clear analogues to Eleanor's dual-rulership, and conveniently bookends the two-civ leader idea with an Asian counterpart of the opposite gender.

William of Orange would make sense as well, except he has less going for him. Not sure why England would get two dual leaders, or more generally why we can't spread dual leader options outside of Europe. And the devs seem to be generally avoiding having leaders with similar names (and nearly every Dutch leader of note was named Wilhem or Wilhelmina).

I will throw out a third possibility, which is James I/VI leading Scotland and England. But again the same problem with William occurs, where England gets a third leader and the second dual leader, and overall we just don't need more European dual leaders.

I think Kublai is a safe bet. He's probably the most highly requested dual leader and just ticks off more diversity boxes than anyone from Europe.

HOWEVER, let us not forget that there is another civ in that pack. What if the dual leader was the one that came with a civ? What if we got Margaret leading Denmark and Sweden? I don't think this is likely because if Margaret led any two countries it would be Denmark and Norway, not Sweden (and therefore would work with the base game). But it's still a thought, and means we could get something like a Margaret in any of the DLC packs because they don't need an expansion to work.

 

[Zaarin]

HOWEVER, let us not forget that there is another civ in that pack. What if the dual leader was the one that came with a civ? What if we got Margaret leading Denmark and Sweden? I don't think this is likely because if Margaret led any two countries it would be Denmark and Norway, not Sweden (and therefore would work with the base game). But it's still a thought, and means we could get something like a Margaret in any of the DLC packs because they don't need an expansion to work.

Sweden came with GS so it's not Sweden.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Sweden came with GS so it's not Sweden.

By jove you're right. It can't be Sweden.

Just watch when we're all surprised that it's George of Georgia.

"But which George, Firaxis?"

"Does it matter?"

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

William of Orange would make sense as well, except he has less going for him. Not sure why England would get two dual leaders, or more generally why we can't spread dual leader options outside of Europe. And the devs seem to be generally avoiding having leaders with similar names (and nearly every Dutch leader of note was named Wilhem or Wilhelmina).

I meant William the Silent, who was also known as the original William the Orange as well.
So no I wasn't advocating for another leader for England
I agree that there are too many Dutch rulers named Wilhelm. Just like too many people named Elizabeth or Thomas in Tudor England.

 

[GenyaArikado]

By jove you're right. It can't be Sweden.

Just watch when we're all surprised that it's George of Georgia.

"But which George, Firaxis?"

"Does it matter?"

I think it's more likely that Barbarians get a leader AND an alt before Georgia does. They're literally in because of Tamar's meme power flex.

 

[oakdragon]

Do we have any idea as to the structure of the pass? I'm asking more for a friend than myself, but I would hope it's one of those products where the price goes down the more you buy, like a bundle?

It's $39.99 US for the whole pass, but each DLC will be purchasable seperately. I have not seen individual prices mentioned yet, though.

 

[Loerwyn]

It's $39.99 US for the whole pass, but each DLC will be purchasable seperately. I have not seen individual prices mentioned yet, though.

I'm aware of that, I'm asking more about the /structure/ of how it will be delivered on Steam. I wasn't sure if anyone had asked Anton (I tagged him in a tweet but not expecting a response). The way things are structured depends on publisher, etc.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think it's more likely that Barbarians get a leader AND an alt before Georgia does. They're literally in because of Tamar's meme power flex.

I really don't want the Huns to come back though.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I think it's more likely that Barbarians get a leader AND an alt before Georgia does. They're literally in because of Tamar's meme power flex.

Eh I think the meme power helped, but I also think there is a very good chance Georgia was under consideration before that.

If one of VI's self-obvious aims is trying to fill the map with the largest and most influential regional power, then Georgia was the best choice for a Caucasus civ. It tended to dominate the area more than Armenia, had more structure and attestation than Khazaria, and was large and long-lived enough to be referred to as a quasi-empire. Add the fact that Tamar fits in as a culture hero/personification alongside the likes of Gilgamesh, Tomyris, Corvinus, Robert, Qin Shi Huang (and to some extent Victoria, Philip, and Peter), and it just was a very easy fit.

Also Tamar is my girl so don't be treading on her. She likes my walls and trades with me every game. Best AI ally. The. Best.

 

[Zaarin]

I think it's more likely that Barbarians get a leader AND an alt before Georgia does. They're literally in because of Tamar's meme power flex.

I agree that Tamar got in because of the "Have you considered it might be Tamar of Georgia?" meme. I also agree Georgia is unlikely to see a second leader. But honestly if it took a meme to make them consider Georgia I'm grateful for the meme. Georgia was a powerhouse in the Middle Ages.

It's $39.99 US for the whole pass, but each DLC will be purchasable seperately. I have not seen individual prices mentioned yet, though.

I forget the source--either the press release or the interview with Anton--but I think it said $9 for the double civ packs, $6 for the single.

 

[durfal]

William of Orange would make sense as well, except he has less going for him. Not sure why England would get two dual leaders, or more generally why we can't spread dual leader options outside of Europe. And the devs seem to be generally avoiding having leaders with similar names (and nearly every Dutch leader of note was named Wilhem or Wilhelmina).

You're thinking about Willem III (not Wilhelm, that's German) known in the English speaking world as William (III) of Orange, because it was the only Orange (Dutch) leader they had.
The Netherlands has loads of Orange leaders (our whole Royal House is named that way) and a ton of them are named Willem, even our current king is named Willem-Alexander.
The Dutch leader has always, well civ III, IV and V so before civ VI, been Willem de Zwijger (William the Silent), better known in the Netherlands as Willem van Oranje (William of Orange) the founder and revolution leader of the Netherlands against the Spanish. This William would absolutely make no sense whatsoever to be leading England.

 

[GenyaArikado]

Also Tamar is my girl so don't be treading on her. She likes my walls and trades with me every game. Best AI ally. The. Best.

Au contraire. I'm praising our queen's might and power

 

[Loerwyn]

There's a Tamar meme?

 

[Potworny]

If the additional alternative leader requires Rise and Fall to play I don't see Kublai Khan as very likely. If he would be able to lead China, then why bar people from playing as him if they don't have Mongolia? If he has a R&F related ability then he should be playable with GS, and that doesn't seem to be the case. For that matter, I don't expect the additional leader from pack #5 to be playable with any civ from GS or the base game.

My theory, albeit it still feels somewhat flawed to me, is that the new leader will lead the Netherlands and that they will be accompanied by some Portuguese ruler. In that case, the DLC would most probably be centered around colonization and/or trade. And the new district could serve as a funky implementation of colonies? Or maybe we are to see a re-implementation of corporations, expanded to appear earlier in the game? How about naming them companies and tying it both to the corporations and the trade companies oh so prominent in the history of, among others, both the Dutch and the Portuguese? Wouldn't that tie all the content in the DLC nicely into a thematically coherent set?

 

[blackcatatonic]

There's a Tamar meme?

First I've heard of it.