[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[ButtBillionaire]

to be fair, so did Menelik, Basil II, Theo Roosevelt, Wilfred Laurier and even Gandhi

As did Harald Hardrada, who went on a campaign of raiding, razing and killing of the inner farmlands of Norway - the Uplands - when the farmers there refused to pay taxes and opposed his rule because of them.

 

[Xandinho]

Some Civilizations with good or possible candidates for female leaders:

Benin lead by Idia
Taino lead by Anacaona
Austria lead by Maria Theresa
Berbers lead by Dihya
Argentina lead by Eva Peron
Morocco lead by Sayyida al Hurra
Madagascar lead by Ranavelona
Ashanti lead by Yaa Asantewaa
Denmark lead by Margaret I
Kiev lead by Olga
Hawaii lead by Liliʻuokalani
Hitites lead by Puduḫepa
Palmyra lead by Zenobia
Ndongo lead by Ana Nzinga
Iroquois lead by Jigonhsasee
Vietnam lead by one of the Trung Sisters

Am I forgetting some?

 

[AaronTBD]

Hawaii lead by Liliʻuokalani

I wouldn't say she's an amazing choice cause the thing she's most famous for is trying to make a constitution that would've given more power to the monarchy (However it would've also limit power from foreign powers) And was eventually overthrown, ending the monarchy in Hawai'i.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Some Civilizations with good or possible candidates for female leaders:

Benin lead by Idia
Taino lead by Anacaona
Austria lead by Maria Theresa
Berbers lead by Dihya
Argentina lead by Eva Peron
Morocco lead by Sayyida al Hurra
Madagascar lead by Ranavelona
Ashanti lead by Yaa Asantewaa
Denmark lead by Margaret I
Kiev lead by Olga
Hawaii lead by Liliʻuokalani
Hitites lead by Puduḫepa
Palmyra lead by Zenobia
Ndongo lead by Ana Nzinga
Iroquois lead by Jigonhsasee
Vietnam lead by one of the Trung Sisters

Am I forgetting some?

Mughals — Nur Jahan, Yemen — Arwa al-Sulyahi, Nyamazana — Swazis

then you have alt leaders, ofc, like Irene for Byzantines, Isabella for Spain, Shajar al-Durr for Arabia, Fujiwara Shoshi (the Empress of Japan who created a court of poet lady-in-waitings like Murisaki Shikibu)—Japan also has Queen Himiko, but she predates Japanese as a language and was one of the first Yamato leaders in the islands, so may not have been culturally or ethnically Japanese either.

I’d also say that Zenobia should lead Arameans or Syria, rather than Palmyra

 

[TeddyMain]

I wouldn't say she's an amazing choice cause the thing she's most famous for is trying to make a constitution that would've given more power to the monarchy (However it would've also limit power from foreign powers) And was eventually overthrown, ending the monarchy in Hawai'i.

Agreed. Personally, I'd far prefer Kamehameha I to lead Hawai'i. I personally believe she was more accomplished as a songwriter than as a leader, and that she would be best represented as a great musician (and maybe also the Hawaiian themes and ambients being based off her compositions)

 

[Zaarin]

Taino lead by Anacaona

Her costume, or lack thereof, could be a problem.

Japan also has Queen Himiko

Isn't she of dubious historicity? Empress Jingū makes more sense for a warrior queen. Since they probably still want to avoid the royal family, though, there's also Hōjō Masako, who was called the "nun shogun."

 

[8housesofelixir]

Firstly, be careful with your "double-faced" term there. Nationalist histories have a way of representing their neighbors. In Finnish history (full disclosure: minun isä on suomalainen), the Russians are always aggressive and corrupt and the Swedes are always foolish and pompous, whereas in Swedish history, the Finns are witches and in Russian history the Finns are crazy knife-wielding maniacs. Similarly in Thai history the Burmese are violent and the Khmer are sneaky. AND similarly in Chinese histories the Vietnamese are sneaky. But these are attempts to make stock characters in a story that nations want to tell themselves about how great they are. From the other (Finn, Khmer, Vietnamese) perspective, just because you don't want to be a part of your neighbor's empire doesn't make you sneaky (as the Finns, Khmer, and Vietnamese would tell you). And, of course, from the everyday person's perspective, it doesn't fully matter. So take with a grain of salt this perspective on Vietnamese history from Chinese sources.

Just somethings I want to clarify:

I used "double-faced" mainly because I am not a native speaker and I cannot find a word to properly describe "how Vietnam used a combination of two methods - the Chinese method and the SAE method - to interact with their Chinese/SAE neighbors" and I thought this word can be use to describe a Janus-like figure, with one face facing China and one face facing SAE, both faces belong to same Vietnam. I now realized "double-faced" can mean "deceitful", which is definitely not what I wanted to say. Maybe "two-folded" is a better term.

Besides, by "Chinese sources" do you mean "sources from the Chinese side" or "sources written in Chinese"? That one's on me for not make myself clear - by saying "my impressions from reading Vietnam history" I actually wanted to say "impressions from reading Vietnam sources about their history". My readings and impressions are largely based on Đại Việt sử ký toàn thư (as you can tell, I quoted it extensively), Đại Việt sử lược, and Khâm định Việt sử Thông giám cương mục - these are all Vietnam side of sources, but they are written in the Classical Chinese. I know what Vietnam looks like in Chinese Histories, but the impression of "Vietnam as combination of China and SAE" is from these sources (Chinese sources usually wouldn't say anything like that).

Isn't she of dubious historicity? Empress Jingū makes more sense for a warrior queen. Since they probably still want to avoid the royal family, though, there's also Hōjō Masako, who was called the "nun shogun."

Himiko is more or less an East Asian Tomyris, so as Empress Jingū.

Japan does have several Empress in the reliable historical accounts, such as Empress Suiko (the most famous female Emperor, at least among the Japanese), Empress Jito, and Empress Kogyoku.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Her costume, or lack thereof, could be a problem.

civ could go the way of ck3 lol

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Her costume, or lack thereof, could be problematic

The first Civ VI leaderscreen with strategically place foreground props.

Or she could always interact while carrying an armload of fruit.

 

[ButtBillionaire]

Some Civilizations with good or possible candidates for female leaders:

Benin lead by Idia
Taino lead by Anacaona
Austria lead by Maria Theresa
Berbers lead by Dihya
Argentina lead by Eva Peron
Morocco lead by Sayyida al Hurra
Madagascar lead by Ranavelona
Ashanti lead by Yaa Asantewaa
Denmark lead by Margaret I
Kiev lead by Olga
Hawaii lead by Liliʻuokalani
Hitites lead by Puduḫepa
Palmyra lead by Zenobia
Ndongo lead by Ana Nzinga
Iroquois lead by Jigonhsasee
Vietnam lead by one of the Trung Sisters

Am I forgetting some?

Sápmi led by Elsa Laula Renberg.
The Philippines could have Corazon Aquino, but I don't know if she would be the foremost choice over e.g. José Rizal, or if she is too recent, considering that she passed as recently as 2009.

 

[AaronTBD]

Two civs that I think is pretty underrated (Possibly due to modern events) are Afghanistan and Somalia

 

[notNamed]

Himiko is more or less an East Asian Tomyris, so as Empress Jingū.

I'd say she's more like the Trung sisters. We know she existed, because the Chinese had no reason to make her up.
At the same time, we know very little about them. The Trung rebelled, got some folks on her side, declared herself queen, 3 years later Chinese send in an army and end her.
卑弥呼 is seen as the main leader of this 邪馬台国. She's a female, seemingly in power and even sends a few diplomatic missions to Wei. Japanese simply don't have anything more on her and have to try and sift through a semi-mythical account to find who the hell did Wei's diplomats even meet with, establish relations with and described in an actual historical account.

 

[8housesofelixir]

I'd say she's more like the Trung sisters. We know she existed, because the Chinese had no reason to make her up.
At the same time, we know very little about them. The Trung rebelled, got some folks on her side, declared herself queen, 3 years later Chinese send in an army and end her.
卑弥呼 is seen as the main leader of this 邪馬台国. She's a female, seemingly in power and even sends a few diplomatic missions to Wei. Japanese simply don't have anything more on her and have to try and sift through a semi-mythical account to find who the hell did Wei's diplomats even meet with, establish relations with and described in an actual historical account.

The Japanese side of the accounts have an interesting problem of them cannot really match the Chinese side of the accounts after went though several process of mythification or historicization. The earliest point that both Japanese and Chinese records can echo with each other is the 倭の五王 (Five Kings of Wa, presumably in 5th century), but after that the Chinese accounts returned to blank for more than a century.

Empress Suiko, the figure I mentioned above, was the first Japanese ruler that can be confirmed by both Japanese and Chinese accounts; scholars generally agree that she can be considered as the starting point of the documented history of Japan. Prince Shotoku, the famous regent who greatly modified Japanese institutions, also served under her.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Japan also has Queen Himiko, but she predates Japanese as a language and was one of the first Yamato leaders in the islands, so may not have been culturally or ethnically Japanese either.

So, you're saying she can and will be in the game.

Also adding Nanyehi for the Cherokee again.

 

[Txomin]

Speaking of Anacoana, I think the Caribbean is a region of the world that has potential for a civ representative in a future installment of the game.

 

[gunnergoz]

Sápmi led by Elsa Laula Renberg.
The Philippines could have Corazon Aquino, but I don't know if she would be the foremost choice over e.g. José Rizal, or if she is too recent, considering that she passed as recently as 2009.

On the other hand, would Imelda Marcos be a shoe-in, er, shoo-in?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I mentioned this on the Game mode Speculation Thread but it seems that there is evidence that we might get a free Pirates scenario sometime, it could be in the next update in October. Happy Birthday to me!

Anyway during the June update we got a religion faith rework as well as they added zombies and aliens to Red Death. Soon after we got Ethiopia dealing who is religious and Secret Societies which came with cultists and vampires.

Fast forward to August and that update came with a rework to amenities and the tech/civic tree shuffle. Then in September we got Byzantium who got a unique EC and Gaul which unlocks Apprenticeship when an Oppdium is built (can be good for the game mode).

If the October update comes with a free multiplayer Pirate Scenario what are the chances it might be a hint to the upcoming 4th DLC or any other?

If we combine that with the MoorTires name it seems a little obvious maybe they are leaning into a North African civ with Berbers/Morocco.

Then again Lisbon's suzerain ability prevents traders from being pillaged over water and the Moors did control Iberia for a while.

Either way I was kind of expecting it to be one of those two (Portugal or North African civ) but with the addition of the possible Pirates scenario, it just all seems to coincide together.
I don't know if they would directly have a pirate themed civ in the base game though considering that's what we would get in the scenario.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I mentioned this on the Game mode Speculation Thread but it seems that there is evidence that we might get a free Pirates scenario sometime, it could be in the next update in October. Happy Birthday to me!

Anyway during the June update we got a religion faith rework as well as they added zombies and aliens to Red Death. Soon after we got Ethiopia dealing who is religious and Secret Societies which came with cultists and vampires.

Fast forward to August and that update came with a rework to amenities and the tech/civic tree shuffle. Then in September we got Byzantium who got a unique EC and Gaul which unlocks Apprenticeship when an Oppdium is built (can be good for the game mode).

If the October update comes with a free multiplayer Pirate Scenario what are the chances it might be a hint to the upcoming 4th DLC or any other?

If we combine that with the MoorTires name it seems a little obvious maybe they are leaning into a North African civ with Berbers/Morocco.

Then again Lisbon's suzerain ability prevents traders from being pillaged over water and the Moors did control Iberia for a while.

Either way I was kind of expecting it to be one of those two (Portugal or North African civ) but with the addition of the possible Pirates scenario, it just all seems to coincide together.
I don't know if they would directly have a pirate themed civ in the base game though considering that's what we would get in the scenario.

I don't know if the pirate theme of the scenario necessarily indicates anything, but perhaps some of the mechanics involved in it could relate to a subsequent civ.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I don't know if the pirate theme of the scenario necessarily indicates anything, but perhaps some of the mechanics involved in it could relate to a subsequent civ.

It's definitely a stretch considering we don't know what other things they would do in the free update, but at the same time there are patterns I've noticed.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I don't know if the pirate theme of the scenario necessarily indicates anything, but perhaps some of the mechanics involved in it could relate to a subsequent civ.

Yeah I'm thinking along those lines as well. While I think Portugal or Morocco/Berbers are very likely if the pirates pack revamps some maritime mechanics, that doesn't preclude other civs like Oman/Swahili, Chola, Champa, Hawaii, Tlingit/Haida, Inuit, Haiti, Cuba, Denmark, Italy, etc. etc.