[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Zaarin]

I’d expect Nineveh if we were going to go with an Assyrian city-state because of Ashurbanipal’s Royal Library.

Speaking of city-state replacements is there a chance that Akkad might get replaced as well?
Akkad has been a Babylonian city in every game and I guess Assur could take that place while Babylon turns into Ebla.

Neither Akkad/Agade nor Aššur belongs on Babylon's city list IMO. Agade was gone by the time Babylon rose to power, and Aššur was never under Babylon's sphere of influence.

 

[Karmah]

I meant the 'hero mod ' my phone autocompleted , sorry -if a mod can fix the title thanks in advance-

source would be here


Moderator Action: Merged with existing thread --NZ

 

[CivSwift]

I'm fine with Babylon. Great Heroes have potential... look at say, Simo Hayha, but I would prefer the Heroes to be a separate game mode like secret societies tbh.

 

[AriochIV]

As I said in the other thread, I'm glad to see more ancient civilizations... though I don't think there is all that much difference between Sumeria and Babylon.

As for the Heroes and Legends mode, I can't comment as we don't know anything about it.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Neither Akkad/Agade nor Aššur belongs on Babylon's city list IMO. Agade was gone by the time Babylon rose to power, and Aššur was never under Babylon's sphere of influence.

I agree about Assur. What I meant was if they decided to replace Akkad as well Assur would make the most sense as a militaristic city-state, with the same suzerain bonuses, than it replacing Babylon as a scientific city.

 

[Pfeffersack]

I meant the 'hero mod ' my phone autocompleted , sorry -if a mod can fix the title thanks in advance-

You can change the thread title yourself by using the thread tools (right upper corner of your original post)

 

[Zaarin]

I agree about Assur. What I meant was if they decided to replace Akkad as well Assur would make the most sense as a militaristic city-state, with the same suzerain bonuses, than it replacing Babylon as a scientific city.

Ah, I thought you were talking about replacing it on Babylon's city list. Yes, I agree that Aššur is a prime candidate for replacing Akkad if they insist on placing it on Babylon's city list. (I hope they don't, though. If any civ in the game should have Agade on their city list, it's Sumer.)

 

[Patine]

@8housesofelixir If I may ask, what do you think is the likelihood that the Huns that plagued the latter days of the Roman Empire were actually, as some theorize, a westward migrating column of the Xianbei or the Xiongnu (or even, perhaps, Rouran Khaganate), and whether or not the groups of "Huns," of the 5th-8th Century Northern Indian Subcontinent/Southern Central Asian plains were actually ethnically and linguistically related to Attila's Huns, or were actually just assigned such an association by Byzantine writers?

 

[Zaarin]

If I may ask, what do you think is the likelihood that the Huns that plagued the latter days of the Roman Empire were actually, as some theorize, a westward migrating column of the Xianbei or the Xiongnu (or even, perhaps, Rouran Khaganate), and whether or not the groups of "Huns," of the 5th-8th Century Northern Indian Subcontinent/Southern Central Asian plains were actually ethnically and linguistically related to Attila's Huns, or were actually just assigned such an association by Byzantine writers?

I'm not 8housesofelixir, but it's my understanding that the association with the Hephthalites is generally given more credence by modern scholars than the Xiongnu (though both remain strongly theoretical and based chiefly on chance similarities of names--similarities in the Xiongnu's case that look considerably less similar in Old Chinese).

 

[Codeword Iroquois]

I am 99.99999999999% sure that they won't do another American or European Civ. They always just do 2 American and 2 European Civs per Expansion and so far they are following their usual quasi-rules to the letter:

• 4 Returned Civs
• 4 New Civs
• 3 Female Leaders, one of which must replace a Returned Civ's male leader from Civ V.
• 1 S.American Civ and 1 N.American Civ with one of them being New and the other Returned
• 1 Civ from Africa
• 2 European Civs with one of them being New and the other Returned
• 3 Civs from Asia+Oceania with 1 one of them being from the Middle East
• 1 Civ must have used to be under the British Empire's sphere

So, to summarize for NFP:
Rule 1 is followed by the Maya, Ethiopia, Byzantium, and Babylon.
Rule 2 is followed by Gran Colombia, Gaul, Vietnam, and whatever civilization we get in March.
Rule 3 is followed by the Maya, presumably by Vietnam, and by the civilization we get in March.
Rule 4 is followed by Gran Colombia and the Maya.
Rule 5 is followed by Ethiopia.
Rule 6 is followed by Gaul and Byzantium.
Rule 7 is followed by Babylon, Vietnam, and the civ we get in March.
Rule 8 is presumably followed by the civ we get in march (though Babylon was centered in Iraq, which was for a time under the British Empire).
SO... We are looking for a civilization we have not had, from the Asia and Oceanian area, and which may have been for a time under the sphere of influence of the British Empire, led by a woman.
Potential ideas: Hawaii under Lili'uokani. Unlikely because of the British Empire bit.
Haudenosaunee under Jigonhsasee. Unlikely because of Asia and Oceania. (And technically the "new" part, but they rebranded Carthage as Phoenicia, so...)
Saudeleur or Nan Madol? Also unlikely because of the British Empire bit. I'm inclined to believe that Babylon is the civ meant to represent the Anglosphere just because it opens up so many more possibilities.

 

[SMcM]

With virtually all staples covered by NFP, I don't think there will be any more DLC. If Portugal doesn't make it now, I don't think it'll make it at all.

Yeah I suppose that is probable. Still I hope they don't add Maria.

 

[AaronTBD]

I wonder if Portugal is added and Portugal Has to have a female ruler, is there a better one than Maria the Mad?

 

[Geminus Leonem]

What does any of that have to do with where Canada is located? Anthropological North America is the region from the Rio Grande to the Arctic Ocean. The behavior of the people who lived there is utterly and bafflingly irrelevant to a discussion of where it's located.

Mesoamerica is its own anthropological region and is not considered with North America in anthropology, which, again, begins at the Rio Grande. The Maya are Mesoamerican, not North American.

Congratulations, I did, too, since I predicted from day one that this was going to be a fan service pack. The people speculating on all manner of obscure and unexpected civs, however worthy, were bound to be disappointed. I expected Assyria over Babylon and Gaul was a surprise, but overall NFP has been exactly what I predicted it would be. And to that end a second Oceania civ has a 0% chance of making it into NFP. Very few people are asking for it; it doesn't suit the purpose of the pass.

Well, then I think you're in for a pleasant surprise. I think you're regarding their "rules" as much more sacrosanct than they do. NFP exists as fan service, pure and simple. We've had a few surprises, but they're not going to pick Hawai'i when Portugal or a Native North American civ will sell better and will round out the roster better before they move on to whatever is in development next.

First off, "Anthropological North America" as a name for the US and Canada region is not a thing. It's not a term used in that capacity and it's the reason that I got confused to high heavens. Same thing for the erroneous "Anthropological Mesoamerica is not North America" bit. Doesn't really matter to the issue at hand, it's just something that ticked me off is all.

I heavily disagree both with the account of the NFP being just fanservice (too experimental & low cost/effort for that) and with the account that their internal rules are not being followed. They are following the rules to the letter, and expecting them to just stop at the very last entry after more than 3 years of not deviating is a tad too wishful thinking.

And even if I am wrong and they don't add in a Pacific Islander as the last Civ, they will still add in an Asian Civ (maybe the Philippines or Siam/Thailand) not a 3rd European or American Civ. That I can 100% guarantee.

 

[Patine]

First off, "Anthropological North America" as a name for the US and Canada region is not a thing. It's not a term used in that capacity and it's the reason that I got confused to high heavens. Same thing for the erroneous "Anthropological Mesoamerica is not North America" bit. Doesn't really matter to the issue at hand, it's just something that ticked me off is all.

"Anglo-America," was used as a geopolitical term for Canada and the United States (as opposed to Latin America) in my younger days, until Quebecois and Anglo-Caribbeans became annoyed by their respective placements, and then the Western Hemisphere was subdivided into two geographical continents (North and South America), or confirmed as such a division, and five geopolitical zones, but my understanding is Anthropological zones are more complex, and often more contested, in some cases.

 

[Zaarin]

I wonder if Portugal is added and Portugal Has to have a female ruler, is there a better one than Maria the Mad?

Maria II? Though Portugal was pretty irrelevant by her time.

First off, "Anthropological North America" as a name for the US and Canada region is not a thing. It's not a term used in that capacity and it's the reason that I got confused to high heavens. Same thing for the erroneous "Anthropological Mesoamerica is not North America" bit. Doesn't really matter to the issue at hand, it's just something that ticked me off is all.

It is a thing. When discussing Native Americans, North America stops at the Rio Grande, and Mesoamerica is regarded separately. If you're not familiar with that, you're probably not very well read on Native American anthropology.

They are following the rules to the letter, and expecting them to just stop at the very last entry after more than 3 years of not deviating is a tad too wishful thinking.

Considering the existence of these rules is your own invention, no wishful thinking is involved in believing that your arbitrary rules do not influence Firaxis' choices.

And even if I am wrong and they don't add in a Pacific Islander as the last Civ, they will still add in an Asian Civ (maybe the Philippines or Siam/Thailand) not a 3rd European or American Civ. That I can 100% guarantee.

And I'm 100% certain you're wrong. Vietnam and Kublai Khan will be our last civs from Asia, and we won't be getting anything more from the Pacific, either.

TBH this conversation is non-productive. You can cling to your invented rules, but IMO the evidence is strongly against you. I rest my case.

 

[Geminus Leonem]

"Anglo-America," was used as a geopolitical term for Canada and the United States (as opposed to Latin America) in my younger days, until Quebecois and Anglo-Caribbeans became annoyed by their respective placements, and then the Western Hemisphere was subdivided into two geographical continents (North and South America), or confirmed as such a division, and five geopolitical zones, but my understanding is Anthropological zones are more complex, and often more contested, in some cases.

Anglo-America is the term that is more used where I live to mention US & Canada. Whenever North America is mentioned in any factor (be it geographical, anthropological, or what have you) it's always in reference to the whole of North America, never to just the arbitrarily chosen part north of Rio Grande.

 

[Patine]

Maria II? Though Portugal was pretty irrelevant by her time.


It is a thing. When discussing Native Americans, North America stops at the Rio Grande, and Mesoamerica is regarded separately. If you're not familiar with that, you're probably not very well read on Native American anthropology.

What about the "Aridamerica," cultural region (Navajo, Apache, Pueblo, Hopi, "Chichimecs," etc.)? That seems to dip below the Rio Grande for a ways and straddle the modern border.

 

[Zaarin]

What about the "Aridamerica," cultural region (Navajo, Apache, Pueblo, Hopi, "Chichimecs," etc.)? That seems to dip below the Rio Grande for a ways and straddle the modern border.

Yes, there's a great deal of similarity between the Southwest US and Northwestern Mexico. If you grab a broad overview, though--like the Cambridge Languages of Native North America by Marianne Mithun--it will virtually always restrict itself to the United States and Canada; more specialized works will cross borders as needed. Mesoamerica is always regarded on its own because it's a very well-established and self-contained cultural and linguistic zone.

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

Anthropological zones are more complex, and often more contested, in some cases.

Just sayin' - Ph.D carryin' anthropologist over here. I think the notion of culture areas is a Kroeber (1939) reference. It's not really a thing that we use much anymore, at least in cultural anthropology, though perhaps my archaeology colleagues might?

 

[Geminus Leonem]

It is a thing. When discussing Native Americans, North America stops at the Rio Grande, and Mesoamerica is regarded separately. If you're not familiar with that, you're probably not very well read on Native American anthropology.

Considering the existence of these rules is your own invention, no wishful thinking is involved in believing that your arbitrary rules do not influence Firaxis' choices.

And I'm 100% certain you're wrong. Vietnam and Kublai Khan will be our last civs from Asia, and we won't be getting anything more from the Pacific, either.

TBH this conversation is non-productive. You can cling to your invented rules, but IMO the evidence is strongly against you. I rest my case.

You are the one clinging to your random wish that Portugal or a Native American will be picked. For no reason aside from "Just because". Astounding.
It's actually a really good way to flippantly ignore the whole conversation in this thread, lol.

Though it is true that this is going nowhere. You clearly are not interested in even pondering on different opinions and actively ignore speculation based on repeated past results and prefer to just close your eyes, cover your ears, and wish really hard that they will add your favorite picks! Surely that will make it a reality!

Because Firaxis is totally not a company that follows structural rules. No, in this case, the devs are totally random in picking, designing, and studying Civilizations. They are not at all using rules to ensure a good spread of Civs both geographically and thematically while making sure that no region is being underrepresented. Of course not! And the repeated patterns that other people notice, well those can just be attributed to baseless conjecture no matter how many times it happens! Totally random! Even if it happening right now! Such willing ignorance is truly inspiring.

Also, I am indeed well-read on Native American Anthropology and that includes the Mesoamerican tribes. I have no idea what papers you have read that randomly excludes them, but I assume (that, if you have even read one at all) it's an old US and/or Canada work since those usually distance themselves from Latin America in whatever way they can.

PS: As you can see I was now appropriately flippant in this comment since you are rather obstinate, hard-headed, and rude as heck. Hope I am emulating your style of answer correctly! All in good fun of course.

PSS: I just now noticed that you claimed to have also guessed the NFP civs without any backing to it... weird I didn't notice the obvious handwaving... Anyway, cheers, and have a good one!