[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[8housesofelixir]

Maybe the best idea is making Greek a generalist civ next time, focusing on food (cf. colonial wheat production and transportation), production (cf. shipbuilding industry), housing (cf. city planning), and gold (cf. Athenian sliver mines) in order to support military, science, culture, diplomacy, religion, colonization, etc. - since they were good at a lot of things. (cf. the current Rome and Phoenicia design.) As well as more alternative leaders.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

I was thinking the renting units out to other players would work well in a hypothetical Numidia or Italian civ, at least an Italian UU, as well.

I feel as if the Swiss can do that better than the Italians, although you have your own opinion and I have mine. I also have an idea for Numidia that would work something like this.
Link's here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...-civilization-6-to-be-expanded-more-2.664504/

I would like Numidia in the game, but I feel North Africa would be better represented by Morocco.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I still feel like they missed an opportunity to give Pericles a naval LUU and Gorgo a Spartan LUU.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

I still feel like they missed an opportunity to give Pericles a naval LUU and Gorgo a Spartan LUU.

To represent Athens and Sparta? Hell yeah! If a Theban leader were in the game, they should have the Sacred Band as a Unique Unit.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

A good idea! But I think for Civ 7. It's a great solution to add a second lilder for Greece and Macedonia in the DLC to vanilla. And in the seventh game I would like Firaxis to develop this idea and make the differences in “Greece” more different than just the leader's abilities: perhaps the acropolis can give one bonus to all leaders and different for each one at once. Well, and without Alexander, civilization is not civilization! The history of Ancient Greece is multifaceted: one leader can be responsible for war, another for politics, and the third (oh horror!) for culture. In addition, they can be combined with each other.
And I think it would be nice that India went the same way) This tip for Firaxis

This would be interesting. I think the big con of the civ format is that there’s very little to differentiate Sparta and Macedon as ‘warmonger greeks’. Obviously, we viscerally know they had disparate cultures, but that’s not well represented in Civ’s format (which, as I’m increasingly finding, is ill suited to representing historical cultures and nations as a whole)

I still feel like they missed an opportunity to give Pericles a naval LUU and Gorgo a Spartan LUU.

they definitely did. As @Duke William of Normandy also noted, a lot of other greek city states have good LUU options

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I feel as if the Swiss can do that better than the Italians, although you have your own opinion and I have mine. I also have an idea for Numidia that would work something like this.
Link's here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...-civilization-6-to-be-expanded-more-2.664504/

I would like Numidia in the game, but I feel North Africa would be better represented by Morocco.

The Swiss could work but since Italy is my most wanted civ they would work just as well with these who were mercenary companies:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condottiero

I'd also something more on the Berber side for North Africa this time instead of Morocco again.

I still feel like they missed an opportunity to give Pericles a naval LUU and Gorgo a Spartan LUU.

I don't mind Pericles not having a naval LUU. I don't know if it totally fits with his leader ability being the diplomatic leader. Sort of how Bull Moose Teddy loses his Rough Rider LUU because he becomes the conservationist.
Though Gorgo having Leonidas as a Great General LUU would be fun.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I think and have thought for several years that Civ needed a good Mercenary Mechanic, given the importance of mercenaries and mercenary units in several periods of history: Greek/Mediterranean in late 4th and 3rd centuries BCE, late Medieval and Renaissance Eras all over Europe - and for the minor German states, right up to the Napoleonic Wars, and even in the Atomic and Information Eras with our 'Civilian Security Companies' now.

One possibility to accommodate many of the famous mercenary units without adding Civs just to provide them would be, as posted above, to add some new or revised Military City States that can provide Mercenary Units as Lahore does now.
Some examples:
Cirte - provides Numidian Horseman, a Classical Light Cavalry unit with a Range 1 attack (thrown javelins) that can move after attacking and Retreat Before Combat (1 tile only, it may still get caught and forced to fight)
Geneva (or Berne) - provides Swiss Pikemen, a Medieval Pikeman unit that ignores Hill terrain restrictions and has a Bonus combat factor when attacking.
Darmstadt - provides the Hessian Grenadier, an Industrial Era 'Redcoat' style melee unit that adds Production when used to garrison a city (the troops of the mid-18th century were only 'on duty' for about half the day, and were encouraged to get jobs so the government didn't have to pay them as much. That meant that having a regiment or two billeted in the city added a workforce of several thousand young, healthy men to the city, many of whom had skills like carpentry or craftworking)
Mallorca - provides the Baleric Slinger, an Ancient ranged unit with the range and effect of Archers, but a Bonus against Ranged Units (the Baleric slingers shot lead pellets that outranged normal 'self' bows and flew so fast they could not be seen and dodged - unarmored archers were decimated by them as late as the Middle Ages, when similar slingers shot a group of mercenary English Longbowmen to pieces!)

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Baleric Slinger, an Ancient ranged unit with the range and effect of Archers, but a Bonus against Ranged Units (the Baleric slingers shot lead pellets that outranged normal 'self' bows and flew so fast they could not be seen and dodged - unarmored archers were decimated by them as late as the Middle Ages, when similar slingers shot a group of mercenary English Longbowmen to pieces!)

Ah, yes, the terror of Rome: Total War A.I. And yeah, Numidia should at least get a City-State if they don't get a Civilization.

 

[Jeppetto]

I wanted (maybe I've mentoined it before) for players to be able to sabotage each other more freely without war, representing their relationship deterioration (at Disliked you cannot Trade but may plunder each others' Traders, at Denounced you cannot Deal but may kill each others' units outside individual territories, at Warring you may enter each others' borders etc) and Mercenary Units to possibly take the role of hired saboteurs, where you may perform transgressions without much diplomatic transparency. As such you'd be able to purchase Mercenaries from any City-State, and they'd evolve like other Units, covering Pirates, Privateers, Outlaws, etc.

Alternatively, I'd like to see CS benefits more expanded. More tiers, more ways to earn influence and this would provide opportunity for more unique CS-type benefits. Say that you may increase your Influence with CS If you have active Trade Route there, Delegate (Spy-like assign unit to reap benefits from CS) assigned there, Spy performing specific Mission there, If you import certain Resource to them (which's effects you lose so long as it's being imported) etc. And then there would be more tiers of benefits like +1 Yield to each City with Appropriate Tier I Building, +2 Yield to each Appropriate Improvement, +5 Yield to DQ Building, +10% Yield to Capital. And finally, something unique to the type. Such as "Can hire Mercenary Unit" for Military CS, +1 Trade Route Capacity for Mercantile CS etc. One way to represent Military States generally as source of Mercenaries.

I think devs wanted Levying to sort of cover that but I can't get over the fact it seems mildly amusing, as If you were paying to fix meh AI yourself.

 

[Zaarin]

Maybe the best idea is making Greek a generalist civ next time, focusing on food (cf. colonial wheat production and transportation)

I'm all for making Greece a generalist civ, but agricultural bonuses don't quite feel right. Greek agriculture was hardly exceptional, certainly nothing like Egypt or the Fertile Crescent. Since abilities tend to center around what a civilization was exceptional or distinctive at, cultural Greece just all around makes the most sense. Their philosophy and political theory have underpinned Western (and to some extent Middle Eastern) thought for over two thousand years, and, even though there is a rich literary tradition in the East far older than Homer, Westerners nevertheless tend to look to Homer and Hesiod as the beginning of their literary traditions.

 

[Kimiimaro]

If Firaxis decides to fuse Macedon and Greece again, I wouldn't mind seeing Philip II. Alexander was a great individual on his own, that's right, but let's not forget that it was Philip II who innovated Greek warfare, united Greece under the Macedonian leadership and paved way of conquest for Alexander by leaving him the powerful Macedonian army already formed.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

If Firaxis decides to fuse Macedon and Greece again, I wouldn't mind seeing Philip II. Alexander was a great individual on his own, that's right, but let's not forget that it was Philip II who innovated Greek warfare, united Greece under the Macedonian leadership and paved way of conquest for Alexander by leaving him the powerful Macedonian army already formed.

Or Phillip II leads Macedon and Alexander leads Greece?

Making room for Isabelle leading Spain again.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

The chance of Trung Trac appearing as a leader is pretty much 0% at this point. Why would they add her in November just to change her in January? The idea for the whole pass must be planned out before any of this got announced, so it is not like adding a city-state in this expansion just to change its name the next expansion to make room for a new civ.

And I also think if Firaxis is generous enough to give us a new civ for free, it must be at the end to close out 4 years of Civ 6 development.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I would hope that Firaxis does some time of event, either for free or for 5-10 dollars where they go back and revisit civ designs as a whole, or create alternate abilities for civs.

For example, a persia design based off the islamic era, a war based Arabia, Scientific china, Scientific India/deblobbed India, cultural Korea, more exploration oriented Spain, earlier iteration of Scotland, Trading Canada (fur trade?), Zulu and Aztecs representing abstractions of their modern day states.

Would be interesting

 

[Jeppetto]

The chance of Trung Trac appearing as a leader is pretty much 0% at this point. Why would they add her in November just to change her in January? The idea for the whole pass must be planned out before any of this got announced, so it is not like adding a city-state in this expansion just to change its name the next expansion to make room for a new civ.

And I also think if Firaxis is generous enough to give us a new civ for free, it must be at the end to close out 4 years of Civ 6 development.

Maybe they wanted to represent her as both, for those with only Babylon Pack as General, for those with Vietnam and Kublai Pack as leader. Though it's true her bonus is so generic they could've represented from the get go many other people.

I would hope that Firaxis does some time of event, either for free or for 5-10 dollars where they go back and revisit civ designs as a whole, or create alternate abilities for civs.

For example, a persia design based off the islamic era, a war based Arabia, Scientific china, Scientific India/deblobbed India, cultural Korea, more exploration oriented Spain, earlier iteration of Scotland, Trading Canada (fur trade?), Zulu and Aztecs representing abstractions of their modern day states.

Would be interesting

Sounds like what alternative leaders were supposed to do. If only each of them didn't have so much graphical detail we can barely hope for them to use that feature five times.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Sounds like what alternative leaders were supposed to do. If only each of them didn't have so much graphical detail we can barely hope for them to use that feature five times.

I don’t mean alternative leaders but rather the civ abilities and designs themselves

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

more exploration oriented Spain

You mean Portugal?

Zulu and Aztecs representing abstractions of their modern day states.

I'm not sure why we need the Aztecs or the Zulu having abilities based off of Mexico or South Africa.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

Maybe they wanted to represent her as both, for those with only Babylon Pack as General, for those with Vietnam and Kublai Pack as leader. Though it's true her bonus is so generic they could've represented from the get go many other people.

Nope, people who don't have the Babylon Pack still have Anshan instead of Babylon city-state, people who don't have the Maya&GC pack still have Jose de san Martin as the Great General, not Simon Bolivar. The replacements apply to all rulesets, so I still insist that if Vietnam makes it in, they will be led by someone else, there is just no point in getting Trung Trac in a few months earlier just to change her later.

 

[AntSou]

Nope, people who don't have the Babylon Pack still have Anshan instead of Babylon city-state, people who don't have the Maya&GC pack still have Jose de san Martin as the Great General, not Simon Bolivar. The replacements apply to all rulesets, so I still insist that if Vietnam makes it in, they will be led by someone else, there is just no point in getting Trung Trac in a few months earlier just to change her later.

I think you're downplaying the chances of them messing around with us just because.

Anyway, here's the Civilopedia entry for Trung Trac:

Vietnam, for much of its history a prosperous kingdom just beyond the southern edge of Chinese powers, always had to struggle for its independence – first from China, then later from France. In the third century BC, a Chinese warlord from the fallen Qin Dynasty captured the Vietnamese capital and created the state of Nanyue (Nam Việt), declaring himself the equal of the Han Emperor in China. This rankled the Chinese, and the new Han dynasty seized Nanyue and incorporated the rebellious province into the Chinese empire. But this – what the Vietnamese call the First Chinese Domination of Vietnam – was an unquiet occupation. It exploded when the husband of Trưng Trắc, the daughter of a regional general, was killed for opposing Han efforts to assimilate and integrate the [as the Han saw them] “barbarian” Vietnamese. Trưng Trắc and her sister rose up and toppled Chinese rule in the region, as Lê Văn Hưu puts it, “as easily as turning over their hands”.

Their rule was only to last three years, though, after which the Han sent a massive retaliatory force to take back the region. They did so, and the Trưng sisters were, depending on the story, either killed, committed suicide, or vanished into the sky. But they outlived the occupation, in another sense. They, along with Bà [Lady] Triệu, are revered as heroes in Vietnam, with temples, a city district, and even a public holiday named after them.

Hmmm... whoever suggested Ba Trieu may be onto something. Why mention Ba Trieu specifically? They're not the only ones revered as heroes in Vietnam.

 

[8housesofelixir]

Hmmm... whoever suggested Ba Trieu may be onto something. Why mention Ba Trieu specifically? They're not the only ones revered as heroes in Vietnam.

Probably because Trung Sisters and Ba Trieu are the hero-est figures among the revered - there are very few historical accounts talking about them, much of the materials are later records (more than a thousand years later) and/or folklores. IIRC while Trung Sisters had contemporary accounts (from Chinese side, that is), Ba Trieu is more of a William Tell style figure.