[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

I think people mention Ba Trieu (Lady Trieu) because they think Vietnam must be led by a female leader, since we only have 1 so far this NFP, and if the 3 female leaders per expansion still holds true, it means Vietnam must be led by one. However to be fair, as a Vietnamese, Ba Trieu is even less relevant than 2 Trung sisters. Like ok, Vietnam lasted 4000 years, the Trung sisters won their rebellion and ruled for about 3 years, Ba Trieu didn't even win hers. They are mostly remembered for their spirit, not because they changed the course of history. If Firaxis wants a female Vietnamese leader that bad, they would definitely go for the Trung sisters over Ba Trieu anyday.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think you're downplaying the chances of them messing around with us just because.

Anyway, here's the Civilopedia entry for Trung Trac:


Hmmm... whoever suggested Ba Trieu may be onto something. Why mention Ba Trieu specifically? They're not the only ones revered as heroes in Vietnam.

Yeah I don't think Lady Trieu has really has a chance at all, at least over the Trung Sisters, considering she never ruled.
If they decide not to replace Trung Trac then it will definitely be a male leader.

 

[AntSou]

If Firaxis wants a female Vietnamese leader that bad, they would definitely go for the Trung sisters over Ba Trieu anyday.

Yeah I don't think Lady Trieu has really has a chance at all, at least over the Trung Sisters, considering she never ruled.
If they decide not to replace Trung Trac then it will definitely be a male leader.

I think you're seriously downplaying the following:

1 - That Firaxis would pass on an obvious female leader for no reason, especially one that has been consistently requested, in a pass which has proved to be mostly fan service;

2 - That there being a reason for them to decide against Trung Trac, it may very well have been this: the type of art that exists of Trung Trac is too simplistic for Firaxis artists to base a new model on;



3 - That being the case they'd ask themselves: "what is the next best thing?", to which Lady Trieu appears as the obvious answer:



That's a lot of fancy stuff on which you can base a unique 3D model.
---

 

[notNamed]

That's a lot of fancy stuff on which you can base a unique 3D model.

Both of the pictures are fairly late interpretation of figures drawn in contemporary style. It's Jesus wearing jeans, basically.
The latter is slightly more detailed because it can draw on the myth of this 23 year old woman being over two meters tall (hence why she's about the size of that elephant compared to other pictures in the set) and having ridiculously long breasts she carried thrown over her shoulders. And that's probably not the kind of image you'd want to base a character on. The dress is likewise, unusable. if you want to appease the historical bit.
If you wanted to do these, you'd probably just give them a generic (young) visage, throw them into some reconstructed Đông Sơn clothes and wave it off as close enough while making the locals happy. And in that case, the sisters would probably be a slightly better choice... they may lack breasts the size of arms, but they are closer to the end of Đông Sơn by some 200 years than their Three Kingdoms era colleague.

I still don't see either as too likely, though.

 

[AntSou]

Both of the pictures are fairly late interpretation of figures drawn in contemporary style. It's Jesus wearing jeans, basically.
The latter is slightly more detailed because it can draw on the myth of this 23 year old woman being over two meters tall (hence why she's about the size of that elephant compared to other pictures in the set) and having ridiculously long breasts she carried thrown over her shoulders. And that's probably not the kind of image you'd want to base a character on. The dress is likewise, unusable. if you want to appease the historical bit.
If you wanted to do these, you'd probably just give them a generic (young) visage, throw them into some reconstructed Đông Sơn clothes and wave it off as close enough while making the locals happy. And in that case, the sisters would probably be a slightly better choice... they may lack breasts the size of arms, but they are closer to the end of Đông Sơn by some 200 years than their Three Kingdoms era colleague.

I still don't see either as too likely, though.

LOL, I didn't even realise those were breasts

In any case, I don't think the bit in bold matters a lot, as proven by Cleopatra, Ambiorix, etc, as long as it is made to feel culturally distinctive.

I still think Le Loi is the likeliest, I just don't see Lady Trieu as unlikely as others here.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

1 - That Firaxis would pass on an obvious female leader for no reason, especially one that has been consistently requested, in a pass which has proved to be mostly fan service;

Well they did pass on Theodora.

2 - That there being a reason for them to decide against Trung Trac, it may very well have been this: the type of art that exists of Trung Trac is too simplistic for Firaxis artists to base a new model on;

I think if Firaxis artists can create Gilgamesh or Kupe from limited sources I don't see a reason why they couldn't create Trung Trac as a 3D model from this.

still think Le Loi is the likeliest, I just don't see Lady Trieu as unlikely as others here.

I mean I would be surprised if it is Lady Treiu simply because, unlike the Trung Sisters, I don't believe she ever ruled in any form as queen of Vietnam.

 

[AntSou]

Tbf the fact they passed on Theodora makes it even more suspicious they'd also pass on a female leader for Vietnam.

I think the chances we're getting at least two female leaders in NFP are very high. So if it's not Vietnam, it would have to come in the last DLC.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Tbf the fact they passed on Theodora makes it even more suspicious they'd also pass on a female leader for Vietnam.

I think the chances we're getting at least two female leaders in NFP are very high. So if it's not Vietnam, it would have to come in the last DLC.

That's also true.
That's why I think it's likely we might be getting either Maria the Mad for Portugal or Jigonhsasee for the Iroquois in March.

They would also fill in the gap of needing an 18th-19th century leader for Europe or a precolonial leader from North America.

 

[Zaarin]

That there being a reason for them to decide against Trung Trac, it may very well have been this: the type of art that exists of Trung Trac is too simplistic for Firaxis artists to base a new model on

Amanitore says hi.

 

[Jeppetto]

Amanitore says hi.

I wanted to reply with Gilgamesh

EDIT: But to be honest at least Gilga has pretty feature-full sculpture

 

[Zaarin]

I wanted to reply with Gilgamesh

EDIT: But to be honest at least Gilga has pretty feature-full sculpture

Yeah, Gilgamesh has the statue...that they chose to ignore entirely to make him look like the Hulk instead. There are no contemporary depictions of Cleopatra, either, but that's okay because Firaxis would have ignored them too for the "Elizabeth Taylor stole Lady Gaga's football helmet" look.

 

[almughavar]

I think you're seriously downplaying the following:

1 - That Firaxis would pass on an obvious female leader for no reason, especially one that has been consistently requested, in a pass which has proved to be mostly fan service;

2 - That there being a reason for them to decide against Trung Trac, it may very well have been this: the type of art that exists of Trung Trac is too simplistic for Firaxis artists to base a new model on;



3 - That being the case they'd ask themselves: "what is the next best thing?", to which Lady Trieu appears as the obvious answer:



That's a lot of fancy stuff on which you can base a unique 3D model.
---

I must clarify that these arts belong to the school of "tranh Đông Hồ" (Đông Hồ painting), and generally Đông Hồ paintings are not supposed to be realistic, historical accurate or should be taken at their face value.

On the contrary, the artists who drew Đông Hồ paintings take much artistic liberties, and also incorporated much metaphorical depictions in those arts.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

I think you're seriously downplaying the following:

1 - That Firaxis would pass on an obvious female leader for no reason, especially one that has been consistently requested, in a pass which has proved to be mostly fan service;

2 - That there being a reason for them to decide against Trung Trac, it may very well have been this: the type of art that exists of Trung Trac is too simplistic for Firaxis artists to base a new model on;



3 - That being the case they'd ask themselves: "what is the next best thing?", to which Lady Trieu appears as the obvious answer:



That's a lot of fancy stuff on which you can base a unique 3D model.
---

The thing is that you have no explanation why they would add her 2 months earlier just to change the name 2 months later though, especially, like I said, everything must be planned out in advance, so literally there is no reason why Trung Trac would be added as a Great General first. Every name change of Great People or City-states have been because something or someone exists in the vanilla version/previous expansion, and a new civ gets released and they have to change it. Again, if they add Trung Trac as a General when they already have plans to make her a leader, that just seems like they are going out of their way just to make an attempt at surprising us about something that was leaked all the way back in July, 6 months before Vietnam's supposed release.

Regarding inspirations for in-game model, everything we know about Lady Six Sky is literally a slab of rock that can barely be made out as a picture of a woman.

 

[Potworny]

Amanitore says hi.

A sculpture that doesn't even seem to come from Sparta says hi.
http://images.fineartamerica.com/im...diumlarge/1/athenian-kore-andonis-katanos.jpg

And I still wonder who the Pete with the alphabet on his clothes from the files is.

 

[Zaarin]

A sculpture that doesn't even seem to come from Sparta says hi.
http://images.fineartamerica.com/im...diumlarge/1/athenian-kore-andonis-katanos.jpg

Aside from the fact that statue is quite detailed, are you sure they based Gorgo on that statue? Because that looks like Kore Persephone (i.e., Persephone the Maiden), and Gorgo appears to be in her 40s at least.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Aside from the fact that statue is quite detailed, are you sure they based Gorgo on that statue? Because that looks like Kore Persephone (i.e., Persephone the Maiden), and Gorgo appears to be in her 40s at least.

Any statue would almost have to come from outside Sparta, because the Spartans were notorious for not producing any art, either poetry, pottery, sculpture, or any other. Spartans were frequent subjects of art, but always produced by Someone Else in Greece.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Aside from the fact that statue is quite detailed, are you sure they based Gorgo on that statue? Because that looks like Kore Persephone (i.e., Persephone the Maiden), and Gorgo appears to be in her 40s at least.

I'm pretty sure that was the statue from the infamous leader leak that everyone thought it was originally Tamar.

 

[Zaarin]

I'm pretty sure that was the statue from the infamous leader leak that everyone thought it was originally Tamar.

Yeah, I know, but not everything on that chart was the direct inspiration for the leader model--e.g., they had this for Gilgamesh, wearing a full tunic with his hair and beard neatly coiffed and his head bare, and instead we got mostly shirtless Hulk Gilgamesh with his hair and beard wild and wearing a weird helmet-crown.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Gilgamesh would definitely have been improved if he greeted you with a lion in a choke hold.

 

[Zaarin]

Gilgamesh would definitely have been improved if he greeted you with a lion in a choke hold.

"I will hug him and pet him and call him Girgis."