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[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Eagle Pursuit, May 11, 2020.

  1. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir Emperor

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    If Kublai having his own UU, it will probably be the Huihui Pao (the Persian-made Trebuchet he employed in the Siege of Xiangyang).

    Huihui Pao is one of the most famous siege weapons in Chinese history because the sheer power of it - the Xiangyang ones easily breached the 3m thick walls of Xiangyang, which scared the city to surrender.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  2. Jeppetto

    Jeppetto Prince

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    The look being different across civs he leads might not be tied to robes only, he might be bald with hat as Mongol leader. Though it's true with Eleanor they in exchange didn't change her clothing, just hair.
     
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  3. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir Emperor

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    Interesting, that's also a possibility. I don't think Kublai changed his clothing when wearing the hat of "Chinese Emperor" historically, but in the game you needs something to differentiate that. His clothing in the twitter reveal looks like can fit both role though.
     
  4. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Not to mention Elizabeth I is a half-sister to Isabella's granddaughter (Bloody Mary). It doesn't really count but I find it interesting nonetheless.

    A unique naval unit that damages itself every turn. :mischief:

    Kind of funny considering there's a thread on Ideas and Suggestions wanting an actual universal Trebuchet unit. :lol:
     
  5. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir Emperor

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    If the tech progression in Civ VI can be 2x slower, then another tech level of siege units will be useful.

    Or it will be like, you upgraded your Catapult into a Trebuchet in Medieval Era, and 20 turns later you unlocked the Bombard.
     
  6. iRule

    iRule Warlord

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    Should I give up just yet? Feels so strange not to have Portugal in... since Civ IV I've grown used to eagerly waiting for the last EP so I can play with Portugal... I know I'm biased (i.e. I'm Portuguese), but heck, I do think that Portugal was one of the coolest civs, gameplay-wise, in both Civ IV and Civ V, so there's also that.

    Anyway, while I got your attention, what do you guys think about Maria II? I have no idea why they went for something as non-consequential as Maria I (in Civ V), when Maria II:

    Anyway, that's all from me - don't play till too late!
     
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  7. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    I still think Portugal has the best chance to be the civ in March, unless we get another Native American civ.

    Anyway I don't know much about Maria II to offer any bonuses on what her gameplay might be. I'd be interested to find out.

    My personal preference would be Joao II or Manuel I for an exploration focused Portugal. However I could also see Maria I in game being like the opposite of Lady Six Sky. Cities farther away from the capital end up getting more yields, sort of how the colony of Brazil ended up becoming the main center of power of the kingdom, and would still encourage exploration and settling farther away (create colonies).
     
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  8. InsidiousMage

    InsidiousMage Warlord

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    Given that Europe was already represented by Gaul and Byzantium I think it is highly unlikely. A Civ from from the Pacific islands strikes me as most likely given the new Civs are moving from west to east starting from the Americas.
     
  9. Potworny

    Potworny Warlord

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    Well, there are files for a second, yellower, set of clothing for Qin Shi Huang, why wouldn't Kublai get two? :p
     
  10. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir Emperor

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    Any pictures on that?
     
  11. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    This would be a Great Circle of Trebuchet-ness:
    China appears to have invented the Traction Trebuchet
    The Traction Trebuchet moved west and is mentioned in Byzantine military texts by the end of the 6th century CE
    By the end of the 11th century CE the Byzantines appear to have modified the Traction Trebuchet into a Counterweight Trebuchet,
    In the next century the new machine was adopted by the Crusader States and their Arab opponents, and then the Persians, and last of all by the western Europeans (in the early 13th century)
    Finally, the Mongols hire some Persian artillery experts to build and use Counterweight Trebuchets for them at Xiangyang. because they were so much more powerful than the old Traction Trebuchets they had inherited from the Chinese!

    Interestingly, in both Europe and China, the Counterweight Trebuchet did not entirely replace the earlier Catapults and Traction Trebuchets, because the counterweight model was so large and heavy it had to be laboriously built on site and was very hard to re-aim against, say, moving bodies of troops - the earlier machines were kept for use against people and more ephemeral targets while the Counterweight Trebuchets battered down walls - a type of target that tends to be much easier to hit since, by nature and design, they stay in one place.
    Realistically then, a Counterweight Trebuchet as either a Kublai UU or a new general Unit should probably have effect Only against walls/forts and no effect at all versus other military units . . .

    As to Kolorful Kublai, all the pastoral steppe cultures tended to be as or more colorful than their settled neighbors. The permafrost-frozen Siberian Patzryk tombs, which preserved cloth, leather and other normally-perishable materials, included saddle cloths and clothing in primary reds, blues, and probably yellow (many items had faded badly over 2500 - 2700 years). The pastoral groups had a major advantage in that they were all 'middlemen' trading with numerous other groups all around them, which gave them access to a wide variety of dyestuffs from plants, animals, insects, etc from multiple types of terrain and climate.

    Of course, the Greeks noted that the Scythians wore very colorful clothing, but any brightness of the colors was considerably dimmed by a heavy layer of dirt or wind-blown dust, the other ubiquitous characteristic of the steppes!
     
  12. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir Emperor

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    I think the limited practical situation of Trebuchets echoes with a point you said in the other Trebuchets post - there doesn't seem to be any "anti-Trebuchets" wall design. Even for Kublai, his Huihui Pao was actually a Last Resort: the Mongols were already besieging the Xiangyang Fortress for 6 years without any gain, and Kublai needed something new and powerful to do the work.

    Actually, during a campaign of crossing the Yangtze River (after the fall of Xiangyang), Kublai employed Huihui Pao to bombard the brown water navy of Southern Song, and it turned out pretty effective. Chinese river warships were also something that tends to be much easier to hit since they were big and slow.
     
  13. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    I find a civ from the Pacific Islands to be less likely than any other region considering we have the Maori who starts in the ocean, which would fit any other Pacific Islander civ better.

    I think the packs moving from West to East has just been a coincidence.

    Besides Portugal is the last missing "staple" in the series who isn't in Civ 6 yet so I doubt they would end the game without it. And I don't see Civ 6 continuing after NFP.
     
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  14. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    She'd be a big step up from Maria I. However, I'd be a little surprised not to see a Portuguese leader from the Age of Exploration.

    Agreed. I'm 98% certain the last civ is Portugal; the remaining 2% is that it's a Native American civ simply because having only one in Civ6 feels like a step backwards from Civ5's two Native American civs. If it does end up being Portugal, I'm going to be seriously shaking my fist at Australia, Gran Colombia, and especially Canada--more than I already am. :p
     
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  15. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Well I'm not sure it was Australia's fault. :p

    Honestly as much as I like the idea of Scotland in the game, and Gaul making it in too, I'm not sure we needed both of them. I think one or the other as the "Celtic" representative would have been enough. Because I sure am not getting rid of Macedon. :mischief:

    Hey at least Native North America is doing better than North Africa/Maghreb region. :shifty:
     
  16. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    Last post on Trebuchets.

    I've watched a modern replica Counterweght Trebuchet being fired, and it is marginally faster to aim and shift fire than, say, one of the cast-iron Bombards. By varying the weight of the counterweight you can change range and so rather quickly move the 'drop zone' of the Trebuchet, but only if you can be pretty sure which direction the target is moving and at what speed - like tracking a slow river boat that pretty much has to follow the river. That's still a pretty limited target effect against most military unit targets.
    On the other hand, since the Bombards took anywhere from one to six hours to load, they should be strictly a Siege Weapon that only has effect against a stationary target, unless, as I've said before, your opponent was cooperative enough to stand around in front of you for half a day . . .
     
  17. Thenewwwguy

    Thenewwwguy Emperor

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    feels like they updated civ 4 kublai for the times

    this would be awesome, but latin america is also more east than north america (on average), so getting the Haudenosaunee wouldn’t be particularly surprising

    they’re also the only way the third woman leader could get fit in from NA, or Oceania, for that matter, that I can think of, unless Hawaii led by Liliuokalani becomes a thing
     
  18. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir Emperor

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    He does very much look like the Civ IV Kublai Khan.

    The problem being, that Kublai is not what IRL Kublai looked like, especially in terms of facial shape, headwear, and hairstyle.
     
  19. Meluhhan

    Meluhhan Warlord

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    To add to the list of close relatives appearing in the game, while not a blood relation, Catherine de' Medici was mother-in-law to Philip II for a while.

    Also, if we were to include leaders appearing in different versions of the game, Chandragupta Maurya (Civ VI) - Ashoka (Civ IV) are another grandfather-grandson pair.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
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  20. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Idea Fountain

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    Philip II was also briefly married to Mary Queen of Scots, making him related to Elizabeth I through marriage.

    All this political incest is just fascinating stuff, isn't it?
     

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