[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[AsH2]

.. Europe, less populous ..

Not historical..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimates_of_historical_world_population#By_world_region

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

To those saying Hittites or Assyria: ¿Por qué no los dos?

What are the chances of the Hittites returning, considering Hattusa as a city-state, is part of a Steam achievement?
The same goes for Zanzibar, Jerusalem, Armagh, and Granada (though they were removed from Spain) off the top of my head.

We don't really need any more to be fair, but definitely variety is nice. Maybe it is a sort of collector or obsessive hoarder mentality, I'm not sure. I know I downloaded stupid numbers of mod leaders for Civilization 5. Partly I just like learning about new peoples and places each time they expand the game and add peoples that are relatively unknown.

I would say there is certainly a case to be made they should just move on to Civ 7, I am just speculating for the sake of it.

I agree that we do have more than enough, especially when you look at the difference between this game and Civ 5 by 7 playable civs.

Though at the same time I'm not expecting 8 more. I'd expect if we get anymore than probably 4 would be the max.
If we go off of civ 5 what's missing is:
a 2nd Native tribe from North America (Shoshone or Iroquois/ something new)
North African Civ (Morocco or be new like Berbers)
Venice, or other Italian representation.

For the last wildcard spot just add in another Sub-Saharan African civ or ancient civ like Assyria or Hittites.

Not to mention the long requested Ancient Egyptian leader that's not Cleopatra.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I noticed in Humankind that certain cultures do have shared features, such as the Olmec, Maya and Aztecs all have specific looking ballcourts in their cities. That would translate well to Civ too where arenas for Mesoamerican cultures could look like the ball courts, opening up the possibilities for other unique infrastructures for them.

Adding a third regional/cultural ability (i think there’s a mod that does this, although it’s a bit rudimentary) would be very cool, as long as it’s done well and doesn’t do too much to blob or misrepresent the civs.

Besides that Mesoamerican ability (which would let Aztecs get chinampas) and the Prasat/Theravada temple that both you and @Andrew Johnson [FXS] mentioned, an example I can think of might be a ‘Hellenic Legacy’ ability of Greece, Byzantium and Macedon (and maybe Rome too), or a ‘Heirs of Latin’ ability for France, Spain and Portugal to reflect their Romance language history.

just an idea i thought of 20 seconds ago so prob a lot of flaws but might be interesting, especially if we get more deblobbing or regional overlap.

A Salt-and-Gold trade shared ability might allow more differentiation between Ghana, Mali and Songhai so they could all exist in one game, for example

How would you like her portrayed?

Civ is notably terrible about how they represent Elizabeth’s personality (and Victoria’s for that matter)

Elizabeth was easily angered, mercurial and historically very emotive...yet civ represents her as stoic and quiet.

Victoria *was* stoic, yet in Civ 6 she’s the emotive and easily angered one.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Besides that Mesoamerican ability (which would let Aztecs get chinampas) and the Prasat/Theravada temple that both you and @Andrew Johnson [FXS] mentioned, an example I can think of might be a ‘Hellenic Legacy’ ability of Greece, Byzantium and Macedon (and maybe Rome too), or a ‘Heirs of Latin’ ability for France, Spain and Portugal to reflect their Romance language history.

Well that's easily the look of every Holy Site, Theater Square, and Campus already. That goes for even the unique ones too, well at least the buildings in the two unique Campuses we have.

 

[Codeword Iroquois]

So... to join the wishlist party:
Iroquois,
Morocco,
Kilwa/Oman,
Italy,
Tonga/Fiji/Samoa, probably militaristic,
Haiti,
Hittities,
Assyria,
Egyptian alt.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I vote for the German Elsaß-Lothringen over the French variation, as the Alsatian language is more closely related to German (being a low Franconian dialect) than the French language. Many of the cities in this region have German names, like Strassburg, Metz, Verdun etc. and were ruled by German monarchs for centuries.

When my ancestors lived in France, Elsaß-Lothringen was still part of the Holy Roman Empire and the people living there had more in common with the Germans than they did the French. This region didn't become part of Modern France until the late 1600's, as a result of the thirty years war.

I don't associate this region with France, any more than I consider East Prussia, Pommerania, Neumark or Silesia to be Polish.

If Firaxis wants a proper Holy Roman Empire in Civ VI or even Civ VII, then they need to give the HRE its traditional territories, which could also include the Swiss, Dutch, Luxembourg and northern Italy.

An HRE civ might obviate the need for civs like the Netherlands and stuff and give us more non-Europe space, so i’ll take it.

Soviet food is, actually, quite lovely. If you ever go to Russia, visit a stolovaya, and you will learn something new and delicious.

Which, speaking of: the USSR would be interesting to represent on its own in a future Civilisation game, though I doubt it ever will as Westerners tend to conflate it too eagerly with Russia.

There’s a lot of historically vertically civs (civs which are geographically on top of other civs but are impossible to function as the same civ AND don’t fill the same game niche that i can think of. For present civs, Kievan Rus and the USSR for Russia, the Franks for France (although they already gave us Gaul as a historically vertically civ, not to mention Macedon for Persia and Arabia for Egypt), HRE for Germany), the Mughals for the Maurya (currently lumped into India), etc.

You've just upped the game on the presentation of ideas for Civs. From now on I refuse to read anything which is not presented to me in a fancy graphic.

Damn, you're going to run William of Normandy out of business!

Im offended you didn’t mention me given my profligate civ ideas in the early times of this thread /jk

Well that's easily the look of every Holy Site, Theater Square, and Campus already. That goes for even the unique ones too, well at least the buildings in the two unique Campuses we have.

i didn’t mean every ability should be a shared building, just that it could be

I mean, let's be real, if VN makes a comeback in Civ7, I'll be damned if they still pick Ba Trieu. I just don't see it happening. It will be a dude leading VN.

Ho Chi Minh or Ngo Quyen, *please*

Oh, and to jump on to the wishlist trend,

Hittites, Mutapa, Chola, Mughals, Afghanistan, Ghaznavids, Timurids, Lan Xang, Swahili, Tlingit, Hausa/Oyó/Benin, Guarani, Muisca, Tonga, Hawaii, Madagascar, Philippines

And for REALLY unlikely, how about Sami and Ainu

(im well aware that’s more than 9 but that’s how eurocentric this game is lol)

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

An HRE civ might obviate the need for civs like the Netherlands and stuff and give us more non-Europe space, so i’ll take it.

I'm not sure a separate HRE civ would mean no Netherlands. Not sure if that solves the problem at all, considering we basically got a HRE civ in Germany along with the Dutch in Civ 6. I see that as a reason to possibly exclude Austria, and therefore might be a main reason why they chose Hungary instead for Civ 6.

I can possibly see a separate Franks (Frankish) civ lead by Charlemagne, but alongside Germany, France and the Netherlands.

That might alleviate the need for two "Celtic" civs in Civ 7 and we could just get Ireland as a middle ground to Gaul and Scotland.

i didn’t mean every ability should be a shared building, just that it could be

It was more or less a joke on how the Holy Site, Campus, and Theater Square already look very Greco-Roman and Western European
in their design in the first place.

And for REALLY unlikely, how about Sami and Ainu

(im well aware that’s more than 9 but that’s how eurocentric this game is lol)

Wouldn't the Sami make the game more eurocentric?

 

[ManoftheHour333]

For Civ VI, I don't think Scandinavia needs much more representation. They have 2 pretty solid entries in Sweden and Norway. And both, along with Russia would overlap pretty heavily onto any abilities Finland could bring. If they're going to add in another tundra civ, they should go with a Siberia civ or a NA civ.

Tbh, as I've been saying, I don't think we really need more civs from Europe. The only one that I could see is some post-Roman Italian representation (That many of us have talked to death over XD). I think the last few regions of Europe could be covered with some clever leaders like Maria Theresa for Germany+Hungary to nab Austria. If there is going to be a second pass, I think that Europe should DEFINITELY get the "single civ" treatment like the Middle East and Africa got with the NFP.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Wouldn't the Sami make the game more eurocentric?

better an interesting european civ then 10 versions of germanic peoples

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

So, I looked at a map, and was able to find some spots in the world map that could be filled:

North America, Mostly the Western and Central parts of it are empty.
Latin America: Seems pretty full to me.
South America: One more Civ from there and it's done.
Europe: Ireland, the Balkans, and Eastern Europe, in general, have some Civs that could fill up those spots.
Africa: Basically all of it except for the Civs that are from Africa.
Middle East: One or two more Civs should work, like South America.
Asia: Central Asia could use a Civilization, as well as one more SE Civ.
Pacific: Really no need, but, if we really wanted, Samoa and Hawaii are two options.

 

[notNamed]

Ho Chi Minh or Ngo Quyen, *please*

Ho Chi Minh I agree with, the guy is such an important figure in Vietnamese history that he kind of pollutes everyone who came before him. Even Ba Trung in the game has a piece of Uncle Ho in her.
Ngo Quiyen, though... why?
I'd rather suggest folks like Lê Thánh Tông (LêTư Thành), who was the sort of enlightened ruler that most Civs get. Golden age of Le, first real conquest of Champa (driven by the need to get the warlords Le Loi brought in to stop murdering themselves and everyone around them), massive expansion of education and public service. He was almost a contemporary of Sejong the Great and the two had similarly successful careers. - Golden Age of Le
Gia Long (Nguyễn Ánh) is another candidate. His family loses their control of Annam, he flees to Siam with the help of Catholic priests, helps the Siamese in their war against Burma, makes deals with Cambodians and eventually travels to Paris to seek assistance. He gets it, reconquers the country and sets up Nguyen dynasty. So he's got a long story behind him, he marks the first ruler of a unified Vietnam, he is the one who comes up with the name of Viet Nam, and he's also a moderniser of the country, giving them a Napoleonic-style army (he also agreed on trade relations with the French but since a certain Napoleon happened, that was lost), star fortresses and all that stuff. It's also a neat figure in terms of showing that just because you took in European ideas, tech and all that jazz, it doesn't suddenly make you Japan. - Moderniser
Minh Manh (Nguyễn Đảm) is Gia Long's son and the guy who achieved the country's biggest territorial extent. Interesting figure in on himself, he's the one who pushed Sinicisation of all the various groups within what was now really "Vietnam", prosecution of Christianity included (a policy he had really good reason for, somewhat less purposefully continued by later emperors). - Golden Age of Nguyen
The last choice is one of the Tran kings during their fight against the Mongol invasions, but I've already written about these before (and likewise mentioned why I'm fully against Le Loi). - Golden Age of Tran + Mongol feats

Of the smaller ones (B-tier picks when you get bored of "the greats"), my personal pick would be Nguyễn Phúc Nguyên.

Spoiler :

The long and short of it is that his father and him established Annam as a fully separate country.
You get interesting figures (Zhuge Liang of the South) this way.
Highly multicultural population living together. Tonkin, meanwhile, was rigidly structured with Tai chiefs in the borderlands, Kinh in the Red River floodplain and their Trai rulers and soldiers from Thanh Hoa/Nghe An provinces along the Ca river and the mountains there.
Expansion to the south at its full extent.
Massive focus on trade both with Europe (part of the Portuguese trade network, first European accounts, Christianity, technically also the origin of the alphabetic system) and the rest of E.Asia (famously most Japanese Red Seal ships went there, getting around the ban on direct trade with Chinese.). Nguyen Nguyen even married his daughter off to a Japanese merchant and she's got a small festival there.
He also built Sage's Wall to defend against further northern invasions. A pretty cool idea that created a coastal superfortress filled to the brim with cannons and successfully kept the Tonkinese at bay for centuries.
Finally, he possibly operated in conjunction with the leftovers of Mac dynasty in the north, just to make extra sure Tonkin (okay, it's still Trai warlords we're talking about here) would never get a chance to build up strength and somehow get through.

An interesting period and very interesting people, but it's one of Annam and not Vietnam. Think Dutch vis-a-vis Germans (except in Vietnamese history, the Dutch eventually conquered Germany and built an ethnostate on top of that).

 

[Starina]

Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V

Season 2 Wishlist: Siam, Assyria, Armenia and Tigran II, Cherokee
Alt leaders: Ivan the Terrible for Russia, for Egypt

Pacific: Really no need, but, if we really wanted, Samoa and Hawaii are two options.

I would like another marine civilization. Maybe even Pacific. I haven’t played for Portugal yet, but I’m very happy about it!

 

[Zaarin]

Alt leaders: Ivan the Terrible for Russia, for Egypt

You want Ivan the Terrible to lead Egypt?

 

[Yudhisthira]

You want Ivan the Terrible to lead Egypt?

Greatest Tsar among Pharaohs

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

Since we're all in our wishlist, here's mine:

Italy: it's been a long time, and we need proper Italy, not just Venice. Seriously, the birthplace of one of the eight eras of the game still hasn't been playable? Come on!
As long as I'd love other European civs, I think except for Italy, we don't need them. Austria = would be too similar to Hungary because they gain suzerainty through gold, we already have a cultural city-State suzrain as Greece and a religious suzerain of city-States as Georgia... Austria would just be redundant. Denmark too: we already have Viking Scandinavia and Enlightened Scandinavia. As long as I'd love Ireland, I think they'd be better in Civ VII (replacing Arabia as the religion/science civ), but for now the British Isles are overcrowded. Bulgaria might work, but Eastern Europe is not my priority.
Morocco/Berbers: Maybe Berbers over Morocco. But anyway, the Maghred needs representation. Sadly, Morocco might overlap in terms of gameplay with Mali or Arabia, so the Berbers might add a nice and refreshing touch.
One Native American civ: as long as they're nicely done and not gimmicky like Civ V's Iroquois. I really don't know the History of this region well, and I'd love to learn more through civs thanks to it.
Middle-Orient/Steppes civ: the Timurids, most precisely. Not necessarily the Scythia gimmick of horses horses horses, more based on trade and science. Especially, I'd love for Ulug Bel to be the leader, to have, at last, a true scientific leader that actually was a scientist.
South America: I'd love to learn more about empires and cultures and tribes living in South America, besides the Incas. The Mapuches were a nice touch badly executed, but another one could works too. They ought of course to be interested and have nice gameplays. Who knows? With the more and more numerous discoveries of civilizations in Amazonia, maybe we'd have a true Amazonian civ, whatever the archaeologist discover first?
Macrobians: that's just me. Macrobia and the Horn of Africa is one of my favourite parts of the Bronze Age world, and I'd love to see them represented. A special ability for them would be to be able to sell resources they bought, especially luxury ones. Greeks thought Macrobians produced spices, but they in fact imported them from India.
Another central/far-east Asian civ: while the hegemony of China was indeniable, I think we lack representation from this area. But not enough knowledge of this part of the world to really knows why.
Haiti: the only post-colonial civ I'd be ready to accept. For once they won't be a post-British colonial civ, but it was also the first modern black nation, based on true principles of equality and liberty.
Alternate leader: We have Greece, China, India, England and France with alternate leaders, the last contenders are Rome and Egypt. Rome is too eurocentric, Egypt had a longer history, and their only leader, while being legitimate in her own right, is still deeply Hellenistic (while she still was the first to try to be close to her egyptian subjects). An egyptian leader far earlier (like Hatchepsut or Ramessess II, or even someone unexpected: don't tell me Ancient Egypt doesn't has any other leader that could be interesting than the Big Names) would be extremely satisfying.

 

[BuchiTaton]

Ireland WAS a perfect option for a celtic civ from the British Isles, I would love to have Ireland before either Scotland or Gaul, but at this point lets be honest if Ireland is added is just to again appeal to the anglo market since many of them have Irish ancestry or at least know about them. Ireland is a very small place, in no way is a "spot to fill" in the map.

Same with Hawaii. Maori have the design for a Tonga civ, while Samoa would be a more unique option. But if we look to other regions either Tagalog/Phillipines or a Caribe/Taino civ are better options for a maritime civ. Hawaii is a prety small, low populated and isolated place compared to Phillipines and the Caribbean. Why the need for a second polynesian civ? Again the only reason is that Hawaii is now part of USA.

 

[onepurpose]

well .. there's is NOT to be another pass.. but here are my two cents...

- Europe: something related to unique gameplay : Switzerland (does not declare wars) or Papal States (controls religion)
- Africa; modern South Africa ... Mandela as leader (I think He would be the more recent deceased leader in Civ series)
- Asia: Assyria & something from central Asia.. Afghanistan or Timurids would be OK..
- America: a horse-ride plains tribe.. maybe Sioux, and (for contrast) a postcolonial state.. Argentina..

I know people would like to see Italy .. but meanwhile Rome been a staple-civ.. I don`t see it likely .. (the same way as Mexico / Aztecs)

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Considering everyone has been making wishlists with 8 civs, I am curious about how everyone can consolidate it to only 4 civs within 3 packs?

I personally think if we do get more content it will be that at most.

Pack 1: Iroquois + Navajo or Haiti

Pack 2: Berbers + Akenhaten for Egypt

Pack 3: Italy + Maria Theresa for Germany and Hungary

As much as I want to put Assyria I don’t think it’s likely with both Babylon and Sumeria in the game.
I also feel like other parts of the world like SA, Oceania and East Asia are done.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Considering everyone has been making wishlists with 8 civs, I am curious about how everyone can consolidate it to only 4 civs within 3 packs?

I personally think if we do get more content it will be that at most.

Pack 1: Iroquois + Navajo or Haiti

Pack 2: Berbers + Akenhaten for Egypt

Pack 3: Italy + Maria Theresa for Germany and Hungary

As much as I want to put Assyria I don’t think it’s likely with both Babylon and Sumeria in the game.
I also feel like other parts of the world like SA, Oceania and East Asia are done.

I actually don't see a half-pack happening, given that they just implemented the season model and would want to keep it consistent so it will stick with consumers.

But I could see it happening as you predict, Maria Teresa excluded lol.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Considering everyone has been making wishlists with 8 civs, I am curious about how everyone can consolidate it to only 4 civs within 3 packs?

I personally think if we do get more content it will be that at most.

Pack 1: Iroquois + Navajo or Haiti

Pack 2: Berbers + Akenhaten for Egypt

Pack 3: Italy + Maria Theresa for Germany and Hungary

As much as I want to put Assyria I don’t think it’s likely with both Babylon and Sumeria in the game.
I also feel like other parts of the world like SA, Oceania and East Asia are done.

I Follow your idea to Pack 1 - Iroquois and Haiti make a fair and balanced civilizations to America where is needed both.

But from pack 2 I would go something more deep in Black Africa and I would choice Dahomey and Angola with Queen Nzinga.

Pack 3 back from old world I would choice Hitites or Israel + Romenia with Vlad the Impaler.