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[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Eagle Pursuit, May 11, 2020.

  1. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    I don't enjoy spies very much either, but it seems they would fit. They could have some cool missions and perhaps a "+x to units within x tiles"type ability.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
  2. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    I mean, I'm sure Firaxis could be more diplomatic about it than veiled threats, but the bigger obstacle might be that they'd be concerned it would be a waste of time if the Hopi or Zuni or O'odham or whatever also said no.
     
  3. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Honestly my idea is maybe a unique infantry/ranger unit that could provide diplomatic visibility for you and your allies when in another civ's borders. Realistically it sounds like it would be a unique Spec Ops unit if we're going off of them from WWII but that would be too late.

    Just an agenda to where they wouldn't go to war to take territory/cities from other civs or culture bomb other civs. Of course they wouldn't want other civs to do that either, especially to them trying to preserve their homeland.
     
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  4. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    Maybe? Though any people that have or had a land to call theirs probably took it from the poor people who had it before them.
     
  5. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Well it sounds good to me. If Menelik hates people for settling on hills I'm sure having a Navajo leader that would not want to take a leader's homeland isn't a really farfetched idea. :p
     
  6. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    Nonsense. The Navajo leader doesn't want you to settle on or near Desert. :mischief:
     
  7. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Save that for the Berbers. :p
     
  8. The Kingmaker

    The Kingmaker Alexander

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    Here’s the missing civs from previous games and my thoughts on whether we’ll see them if a FF should happen.

    *Assyria: seems probable, they’re a fan favorite.
    *Austria: maybe, though Hungary seems to fill its niche now
    *Denmark: doubtful, Scandinavia is pretty full
    *Hittites: don’t think we’ll see them, although they do have a few vocal supporters
    *Huns: nope, they were a weird one-off
    *Iroquois: yes, I think they’re the #1 most-requested now
    *Morocco: yes, whether as Berbers/al-Andalus/etc.
    *Polynesia: or rather Hawai’i now that they’re deblobbed. I doubt we’ll see them at this point.
    *Shoshone: probably not, but maybe a different NA tribe.
    *Siam: I doubt it. There was some kerfuffle with Thailand last time. Besides Sukritact’s animated, voiced mod is top quality!
    *Sioux: I think a SW NA tribe is more likely than a plains one.
    *Songhai: don’t think so. A fair bit of overlap with Mali.
    *Venice: not sure about Venice specifically, but some iteration of Italy seems highly likely.

    Note: I left off the deblobbed Native Americans, Celts, Vikings and HRE.
     
  9. sweetbrown89

    sweetbrown89 Chieftain

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    In a perfect world, North America would at least be given the African treatment in terms of *at least* representing an area (I omit Egypt to make a less Eurocentric [Cleopatra] point)

    Africa
    • West Africa = Mali / Songhai slot
    • North Africa = Morocco slot
    • East Africa = Ethiopia slot
    • Central Africa = Kongo slot
    • South Africa = Zulu slot


    Currently, NA seems to have an Eastern (“Lakota” [Sioux], Haudenosaunee [Iroquois], Cree) and a Western system (Shoshone) — omitting MesoAmerica

    Ideally, with the Africa treatment, we could have:

    • Great Plains = Očhéthi Šakówiŋ /otʃʰeːtʰi ʃakoːwĩ/ / Lakota (Sioux)
    under Tȟatȟáŋka Íyotake /tˣaˈtˣə̃ka ˈi.jɔtakɛ/ (Sitting Bull); a fantastic gameplay mechanic they have could be centered around the Ghost Dance & morale; they also are proud of their warrior society heritage, so it’s not like they’d be offended for being a more aggressive Civ; Sweat Lodge (Temple replacement with a unique Project)

    other options = Cheyenne, Arapaho

    ————————————————————

    • Northeastern Woodlands = Haudenosaunee (Iroquois)

    ————————————————————

    • Great Basin = Shoshone

    ————————————————————

    • Subarctic = Cree

    ————————————————————

    And untapped regions:

    • Southeastern Woodlands = Aniyvwiya’i /anijə̃ɰija’i/ (Cherokee) as cultural / scientific
    under Ssiquoya (literally gained a Writing Eureka after meeting a Civ IRL); Asi infrastructure; Asgayadihi (Mankiller) unit

    ————————————————————

    • Southwest = Indé (Apache) under Goyaałé (Geronimo); Wickiup infrastructure; Apache Raider (they apparently didn’t have a name for “warrior”) unit

    other options = the Diné (Navajo) under Lozen (she’s super famous to them, look her up); Hogan (Temple replacement); Code Talker unique Spy unit (probably has to remain in Allied territory as a defensive Spy that sabotages all enemy Spy activity — 5 Spy cap could cover all Allies; maybe gain a bonus for defending an Ally)

    maaaaaaaaaaaybe the Hopi, but that’s a longshot

    ————————————————————

    • Plateau = * Nimíipuu /nimiːpuː/ (Nez Perce) under Hinmatóowyalahtq̓it (Chief Joseph) as a diplomatic Civ; a unique Fort based on their hollow fortifications; a ranged unit since they were excellent marksmen

    ————————————————————

    • Northwest Coast = Tlingit under Ḵʼalyaan (Katlian); Plankhouse or K’alyaan Pole unique infrastructure; Niyahaat Warrior unique melee unit (that has high defense)

    ————————————————————

    • Caribbean = Taíno under Anacaona; Batéy (Entertainment Complex replacement); Nitaíno Warrior unit

    ————————————————————

    A girl can dream...
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
  10. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    Ḵwaan, in Tlingit. :)
     
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  11. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Lozen is Apache though? :confused:
     
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  12. sukritact

    sukritact Artist and Modder

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    I suspect Firaxis will know better than last time and not accidentally make the leader look like a controversial prime minister AGAIN.

    Other than that it should be fine as long as they avoid picking someone from the current dynasty. For the most part I think most Thais would be happy to be represented again.

    Still unlikely for Civ 6 though, since they only JUST added Ayutthaya as a City-State.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
  13. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    So it would be a problem for them to pick a leader like Rama I or Rama V for Siam in the future?
     
  14. Thenewwwguy

    Thenewwwguy Emperor

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    i suspect that Firaxis would go for the low hanging fruit and pick Ramkhamhaeng like they did in Civ 5, just making him not have the passing resemblance of a living politician
     
  15. sukritact

    sukritact Artist and Modder

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    It’s not a problem to pick them per se, but given the reverence verging on worship given to them by a significant portion of the Thai population I don’t think it’s a good idea. Firaxis would have to be extra careful representing them and it’d be a disaster if they got it wrong (there’s a reason Chulalongkorn is the only unvoiced Siamese leader I made). Far safer to stick with monarchs from the pre-Bangkok era.

    Personally, I hope they pick Narai instead. That was a very interesting period of Thai history. Though I imagine the most popular choice among most Thais might be Naresuan; not the biggest fan of that choice personally.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
  16. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    I'd really like them to branch out a little bit and not usually make the all the SEA civs based around Medieval Era. Obviously the Khmer and Indonesia (Majapahit) would have to be though. However a leader from the later Ayutthaya Kingdom would work fine for Siam if an Industrial leader probably wouldn't be the best idea.
     
  17. Andrew Johnson [FXS]

    Andrew Johnson [FXS] Warlord

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    Speaking here as a historian, not in my role as writer.

    I don't know how the Thaksin/Ramkhamhaeng thing came about - Thaksin's family is also Chinese-Thai, too - Ramkhamhaeng would have physically looked quite different (and also quite different from the often half-European, half-Thai actors that play historical heroes in present-day Thai films).

    Each prospective leader - Ramkhamhaeng, Narai, Rama V, Rama IX - would have a distinct focus and problems associated.

    Ramkhamhaeng's historical sources are sketchy, and large portions of his story have their historical veracity contested. He would hail from a semi-mythic time period just after the Khmer empire started to collapse and new city-states appeared on the frontier. Imagine King Arthur.

    Narai I agree is an interesting figure. Ayutthaya was a thriving metropolis during his time, and had a large Japanese population, a Persian delegation, a Greek chancellor - in short, it was a real, independent, thriving Southeast Asian metropolis. Out of a partial fear of this cosmopolitanism, he was overthrown, but it remains a great choice for a medieval/Renaissance Siam/Ayutthaya. Imagine a strange king, one who embraced a new possibility (but was ousted for it) - hmmm I can't think of a good example.

    What Sukrit is intimating about Naresuan, I agree with. He was a militaristic king who led a series of wars against Burma, but most significantly he is the poster hero for a new kind of media-led militarism in Thai society. A series of big-budget historical movies had Naresuan as the hero, and he becomes the handsome face of Thai militant nationalism. The question of whether or not he fought the Burmese king on elephant-back is likely a historical myth, but Thai historian Sulak Sivaraksa was charged with a potentially decades-long criminal charge for suggesting that this duel did not take place and urging people to not pay attention to propaganda, so I'm certainly not saying that right here (charges were dropped). Imagine Richard the Lionheart.

    Rama V is a fantastic choice, I think. I understand Sukrit's hesitation in voicing his avatar, but he really transformed Siam from a shaky buffer state into an independent, industrializing state - not a free one, necessarily, as he modeled himself more on European absolute monarchs than either past Siamese monarchs or on constitutional monarchs, but really one of the architects of modern-day Siam/Thailand. Imagine Victoria.

    Rama IX is not going to happen, but for a late atomic-age leader, this would be the choice. The American-born king moved the monarchy from being a symbolic anti-Communist figurehead to a real media-fueled source of a particular kind of nationalism. Way, way, way too recent and too controversial. I wouldn't even suggest him. I'm not going to suggest a comparison.

    Looking beyond kings, though, there are other interesting choices. Pridi, for instance, was the democratically-minded statesman who sought to make a more open Thailand in between the aspirations of absolute monarchs on one side and fascist-adjacent military leaders on the other. He remains well-loved in Thai academic communities. I'd love to see a Pridi-led Thailand, but it's perhaps too niche a choice.

    Phibul would be Pridi's frenemy - the nationalist and fascist-adjacent military leader who spurred the temporary abdication of the monarch and a new, nationalist Thailand (as opposed to the prior absolute monarchical Siam). Again, an architect of a possible Thailand, whose legacy is currently being hotly contested (and erased) as we speak. Never going to make it - "fascist" and "hotly contested" are two big red flags.

    Sarit would define Cold War Thailand - a military dictator and US ally, with a long, long list of negatives to his name, but he did shape the country into what it would later become - restoring the monarchy and firmly putting Thailand in the US side of the Cold War - through violence, when he had to. Never going to make it. Imagine Suharto.

    While I like Pridi best of all, it's not the popular choice. And various other reasons (controversy, an over-mythologization) put a bit of a damper on all except Narai and, I'd argue, a well-handled Rama V.
     
  18. Thenewwwguy

    Thenewwwguy Emperor

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    I totally agree, he’s my first choice for a leader of Siam/Thailand as well.
     
  19. sukritact

    sukritact Artist and Modder

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    He’s my favorite historical monarch tbh. I’m just reluctant to say he’d be a good choice for an official civ leader given how touchy the Thai government and Thais can be about how important monarchs are represented (and considering he’s one of the most likely monarchs you’re likely to find a mini-shrine to in a a random person’s house/store). I’d rather some weird faux pas not cause my favorite game series to be banned in the country.

    Yeah, there’s really not much to say about Ramkhamhaeng as a figure that’s concrete (though I would like to point out that this didn’t stop Dido, Kupe, or Gilgamesh being picked as leaders). I honestly just know him as that king who supposedly invented the Thai script and nothing else. I honestly just picked him as a base leader for the mod because recognisability. I’d have picked Narai as the base leader for my mod if Siam hadn’t been in Civ 5.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  20. Thenewwwguy

    Thenewwwguy Emperor

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    So...How about the Chola
     

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