[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[bite]

Oops sorry I meant HOF not leader selection screen.

Also, to be pedantic, there are nine slots (eight civs plus an alt leader), not eight. But point being is we will still add 11 portraits, meaning the HOF theory is pretty much irrelevant. The devs will add as many leaders as they want.

They might not use a new portrait for the PERSONA PACKS

 

[Inawordyes]

So the biggest question I have, RE: my previous musings in the old thread, is whether or not who we get back as far as returning civs means anything for the future beyond New Frontier.

Right now, we have the Maya and Ethiopia as two "heavy-hitters". I had speculated before that if we saw civs like the Maya and Portugal (notable absences) in the DLC, it would probably preclude the idea of a third expac. And we've gotten confirmation now that this is effectively taking the place of a third expac, so we should expect to see the heavy-hitter returnees here. However, if they follow the same pattern as the last two expacs, we're going 4/4 in terms of old vs. new - we've got 2/4 right now in Maya/Ethiopia, and there are three more "heavy-hitter"-tier civs - Portugal, Babylon, and Byzantium. At most, if this is it, we're getting 2/3, or possibly even breaking trend a little and getting all 3. Of the three, Portugal seems the most guaranteed to also be coming based on notability and franchise popularity as a civ, so if we go through this whole pack and Portugal is missing, something is up. But even then, if we start getting more "low-key" returning civs (that also make perfect sense) like the Iroquois, Assyria, the Hittites, Morocco - if we get civs like these over PB&B, there's not a whole lot of ways to justify their absence after two DLC passes and two expansions (especially in the case of Babylon, which has made an appearance in every game since the beginning) unless a third expansion or a third season pass deal ends up being in the works and whichever of those three are missing will be the headliners of that pass, like the Maya and Ethiopia are here.

Which is a lot to be speculating on less than 24 hours after New Frontier was revealed haha. But my point overall is, if we round out the returnings civs with Portugal and one or both of Babylon/Byzantium, this is probably it for Civ VI DLC, as including them kind of doesn't leave you with really any veteran civ to really "sell" a new expac or season pass - unless they go the route of focusing on the new civs by providing heavy-hitter fan requests, which on the same token would make the inclusion of more "low-key" new civs over popular requests like Vietnam really weird unless they're holding back certain new civs for a third expac/season pass. But depending on who's missing? We very well could end up seeing more down the line, and New Frontier would not also be the Last Frontier.

EDIT:

They might not use a new portrait for the PERSONA PACKS

The description makes it sound like they'll be separate entities from the original Teddy and Catherine and basically equivalent to Eleanor's two versions, except for the same civ. So they would probably have new portraits and be separate in the HoF.

 

[_hero_]

Some interesting things from the Anton interview .

PCGamesN: We take it the New Frontier Pass draws on the insights gleaned from the survey last August – can you summarise the results of that survey?

Anton Strenger: From the survey, our biggest takeaway was that players are actively looking for more Civilization VI. That might seem somewhat obvious, but it’s not something we take for granted – especially as it’s been four years since we initially announced the game. More specifically, we heard from players that new leaders and civilisations top their wish list. There are still lots of interesting cultures from history who are good candidates for civilisations and plenty of compelling leaders, and we always enjoy the process of designing these, so we’re happy to give players more!

This is why it's always worth taking the time to answer surveys about products you use. The people who take the time to answer surveys shape the future of the product. If you ignore the survey and then complain about what they come up with, you've got no one to blame but yourself.

One of the features polled in that survey and of continuing interest to the community is new leaders, but the New Frontier Pass adds only one more leader than it does civs. Did the team consider a pack focusing on multiple new leaders alone?

Deciding on what leaders and civilisations to add to the game is always a tough choice, but the team felt strongly that adding new civilisations – some to the franchise for the very first time – was the right way to go.

Kind of disappointed that they don't seem interested in adding extra leaders that much, but I get it. A civ is far more content than a leader. Maybe they'll do another season pass with lots of leaders if this one goes well? There can't be that many interesting civ choices left after they add these 8.

We’ll also be providing free updates in between each DLC pack that will include new maps, scenarios, balance updates, and more!

I wonder if "between each DLC pack" means the free updates will come in the months that there's no DLC or if he meant to say that the free updates come alongside the DLC.

You’re right in that each civilisation tends to have something that it does well and as we’ve listened to our players over the last four years, we think there’s interest in civilisations that really play with the games’ rules in interesting ways. We always want to make a civ that’s fun to play, rather than designing with an eye towards specific systems.

For all the people who hope for better balance, it doesn't sound like that's ever going to be a focus in Civ VI and I'm ok with that. They are clearly going for the audience that wants to have a unique experience and maybe role play their game a little bit over the audience that wants to min-max.

 

[Morningcalm]

It seems from the Strenger article that Gran Colombia won't be the only civ introduced that has never been in the franchise before.

Maybe Vietnam is one of the other ones? And I have to hope for another African nation beyond Ethiopia, like Benin, the Dahomey, or the Ashanti (with the divine Golden Stool)

 

[Kibikus]

I think it's worth reiterating that, if I'm not mistaken, for the first time in the Civ series, content will be locked behind what's essentially a pre-order-ONLY bonus. You'll have to give them money in advance for something that's not done yet (and won't be for the next year). And it's not just cosmetic content, new Teddy and Catherine come with game changing leader abilities. No word yet if it's going to be like the Aztecs where everyone can get it at a later point.

I know that's the way gaming has been going for a while now, but that doesn't mean I'm happy to see it happening to Civ as well. At the end of the day, they're going to look at how people vote with their wallets, and if it's a success, they'll keep doing it more and more.

 

[Disgustipated]

I'm also a bit disappointed with that. It's been what, 8 months since the last game update, 15 months since Gathering Storm, yet it seems like most of the content in this pack is not done and will be created over the next year. Maybe the corona virus changed their plans, I don't know, but I don't get the drip feed approach. I guess that's the general direction gaming has gone to, though.

I think their main team is most likely working on Civ7, so this would most likely be a secondary team, and thus the drop feed approach is necessary since it all can't be created in a short period of time from a small team.

 

[cosmicmangobear]

2020 IS SAVED!

I haven't read the whole thread so not sure if this has been discussed yet, but does anyone think JFK is going to be the ninth leader based on the pass title?

 

[PenngwynXVII]

JFK with bonuses to space race production would be interesting.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Vatican City is confirmed as a new City-State from the screenshots thread. Well I guess that probably means no united Italy.

I guess here are my remaining predictions which I know are kind of safe picks:
3rd pack- Byzantines+Assyria/Babylon +Mediterranean World Map and TSL
4th pack-Portugal
5th pack- Vietnam+Kublai Khan +Health District and buildings with plague mechanics
6th pack- Navajo/Iroquois/Tlinglit+Americas Map and Americas TSL

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I think their main team is most likely working on Civ7, so this would most likely be a secondary team, and thus the drop feed approach is necessary since it all can't be created in a short period of time from a small team.

I still don't think VII is past a generalized pre production phase. As a baseline, look at how much effort was invested in the character design, art design, and music for each civ and VI, and the cost-benefit of having to start that all over again, for many of the same civs. Also consider how the playerbase is already split between V and VI and how that impacted sales for VI for years. They need a LOT of new ideas to even justify starting VII.

Add to this that they already are developing new ideas. Every DLC game mode they developed could have been a selling point for VII. But instead they are devoting those development resources to fleshing out VI. I think they are trying to push VI into being a sort of legacy game, which I am totally okay with. Instead of starting fresh with this civ or that mechanic that was missing in VI, they can just add it to VI.

So the biggest question I have, RE: my previous musings in the old thread, is whether or not who we get back as far as returning civs means anything for the future beyond New Frontier.

Right now, we have the Maya and Ethiopia as two "heavy-hitters". I had speculated before that if we saw civs like the Maya and Portugal (notable absences) in the DLC, it would probably preclude the idea of a third expac. And we've gotten confirmation now that this is effectively taking the place of a third expac, so we should expect to see the heavy-hitter returnees here. However, if they follow the same pattern as the last two expacs, we're going 4/4 in terms of old vs. new - we've got 2/4 right now in Maya/Ethiopia, and there are three more "heavy-hitter"-tier civs - Portugal, Babylon, and Byzantium. At most, if this is it, we're getting 2/3, or possibly even breaking trend a little and getting all 3. Of the three, Portugal seems the most guaranteed to also be coming based on notability and franchise popularity as a civ, so if we go through this whole pack and Portugal is missing, something is up. But even then, if we start getting more "low-key" returning civs (that also make perfect sense) like the Iroquois, Assyria, the Hittites, Morocco - if we get civs like these over PB&B, there's not a whole lot of ways to justify their absence after two DLC passes and two expansions (especially in the case of Babylon, which has made an appearance in every game since the beginning) unless a third expansion or a third season pass deal ends up being in the works and whichever of those three are missing will be the headliners of that pass, like the Maya and Ethiopia are here.

Which is a lot to be speculating on less than 24 hours after New Frontier was revealed haha. But my point overall is, if we round out the returnings civs with Portugal and one or both of Babylon/Byzantium, this is probably it for Civ VI DLC, as including them kind of doesn't leave you with really any veteran civ to really "sell" a new expac or season pass - unless they go the route of focusing on the new civs by providing heavy-hitter fan requests, which on the same token would make the inclusion of more "low-key" new civs over popular requests like Vietnam really weird unless they're holding back certain new civs for a third expac/season pass. But depending on who's missing? We very well could end up seeing more down the line, and New Frontier would not also be the Last Frontier.

EDIT:

The description makes it sound like they'll be separate entities from the original Teddy and Catherine and basically equivalent to Eleanor's two versions, except for the same civ. So they would probably have new portraits and be separate in the HoF.

I agree with this that they don't all have to be heavy hitters. Just look at the returning civs for RF and GS. Not everyone thought the Netherlands or Sweden were necessary. We could still feasibly see Morocco or Denmark (or I guess the Iroquois, Assyria, Siam, Austria). I think that will be another strong indicator of future plans. I think, at minimum, if we don't see Portugal and Byzantium, there is a very good chance there will be more DLC after New Frontier.

Vatican City is confirmed as a new City-State from the screenshots thread. Well I guess that probably means no united Italy.

That doesn't rule out Italy. But still FFFFFFUUUUU

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Vatican City is confirmed as a new City-State from the screenshots thread. Well I guess that probably means no united Italy.

Not really. Vatican City has been a city-state since Italy was unified. Shearing the Vatican off from the rest of Rome was the final act in the unification process.

 

[darko82]

I guess that's the general direction gaming has gone to, though.

People let them do it. Stop spending money, express yourself. That's the only way to fight it. A large group of people is needed.

I really do not like the direction "it has been going" including Steam and borrowing games from them. You actually pay them 50 bucks to borrow a game now. GOG is the only good thing that lets you actually own a virtual copy of a game (if you have a hard drive for that ) But can you re-sell it like in the old good times? I doubt it.

 

[Xefjord]

People let them do it. Stop spending money, express yourself. That's the only way to fight it. A large group of people is needed.

I really do not like the direction "it has been going" including Steam and borrowing games from them. GOG is the only good thing that lets you actually own a virtual copy of a game (if you have a hard drive for that )

I am willing to be optimistic, I don't think seasonal passes are always bad, and since it is the first time we are really trying this I will wait to see how this cycle goes. If it spurs them to make a Season Pass 2, but i felt Season Pass 1 sucked, then I just won't buy the next one. But overall, I already know I am probably going to buy everything they ship even if it is garbage at this stage, and this looks fairly good from what I see so far. The fact we will be getting more frequent support updates is also a positive sign. I already have more than enough hours of play to validate the extra cost.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Not really. Vatican City has been a city-state since Italy was unified. Shearing the Vatican off from the rest of Rome was the final act in the unification process.

I am hoping for a Italy Civ based off of the Medieval/Renaissance city states, so my thought process was that the Vatican City would possibly be a city on their list. But you could be right, but I'm less optimistic now.

 

[Krajzen]

I have to say, I like the interesting turn they took for the development cycle.
1) It somewhat justifies/explains their exceptionally long silence, due to how long period this will be spread through.
2) I was vehement this game needs longer life and much more content, but in the same time - unlike most of this forum - I thought it is a bad idea for them to add this content in the form of new EXPANSION. You see, I think the game already suffers from mechanics bloat, I didn't like the idea of a third expansion with even more mechanical systems added to the civ game which had almost all civ5 bnw major systems on release and then kept on adding and adding... The combo of more civs + more units, wonders etc + free patches + alternate dramatic game modes is imo an excellent way to add much more but not in a bad way.
3) I routinely criticize Firaxis for sticking to many outdated game dev practices, I'm glad to see some desire for experiments with game's life cycle.

Also, thanks God we see Maya and Ethiopia again. Gran Colombia is very surprising addition but not bad. Portugal and Byzantium are IMO certain, Babylon is probable, Vietnam is IMO incredibly probable because it has been mentioned so damn many times over years, no idea about Italy, I'd love to see some Maghreb civ but I am not sure about it at all, and I dislike US Native civs but I am unfortunately almost certain we'll get one from US devs, as Cree are technically from Canada.

Oh and one last thing. I am really, really relieved the long silence wasn't due to them preparing to drop something huge like civ6 spinoff, or some crazy civ7 announcement (somehow) or whatever. Why? Because I don't want Humankind and whatever big Civ's release to be close to each other - I want for both games to stimulate "arms race" and innovation via healthy competition, not fight each other directly.

 

[darko82]

I am willing to be optimistic, I don't think seasonal passes are always bad, and since it is the first time we are really trying this I will wait to see how this cycle goes. If it spurs them to make a Season Pass 2, but i felt Season Pass 1 sucked, then I just won't buy the next one. But overall, I already know I am probably going to buy everything they ship even if it is garbage at this stage, and this looks fairly good from what I see so far. The fact we will be getting more frequent support updates is also a positive sign. I already have more than enough hours of play to validate the extra cost.

They don't give people what they wait for mostly. Fans want DLL source code and challenging AI in single player mode This should be the priority. Instead they want to control/limit things? Look at other companies like Bethesda or Paradox. Modding is so important, especially because developers will never provide you the content modders can.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

People let them do it. Stop spending money, express yourself. That's the only way to fight it. A large group of people is needed.

I really do not like the direction "it has been going" including Steam and borrowing games from them. You actually pay them 50 bucks to borrow a game now. GOG is the only good thing that lets you actually own a virtual copy of a game (if you have a hard drive for that )

Meh. Civ VI is the only game I have been willing to spend preorder money on. The level of consideration and polish put into VI's expacks is light-years ahead of anything prior in the series, or many other large budget games.

I realize I'm part of a niche demographic that cares more about the overall idea and message of a game than whether it panders to my specific expectations. But there are plenty of us who still have a lot of goodwill in the product and would rather patronize developers who actually have a creative vision and engage with the players over the rest of the committee-driven trash that plagues the industry. Doesn't really matter to me how the content is distributed if it is still quality.

They don't give people what they wait for mostly. Fans want DLL source code. This should be the priority. Instead they want to control/limit things? Look at other companies like Bethesda or Paradox. Modding is so important, especially because developers will never provide you the content modders can.

They don't release the DLL until they are done developing official content. They are still developing official content. Sorry man, but technically they don't have to release it at all. And yeah we can argue whether waiting helps or hurts the mod community but feeling entitled to it is just....myopic.

 

[darko82]

Meh. Civ VI is the only game I have been willing to spend preorder money on. The level of consideration and polish put into VI's expacks is light-years ahead of anything prior in the series, or many other large budget games.

I realize I'm part of a niche demographic that cares more about the overall idea and message of a game than whether it panders to my specific expectations. But there are plenty of us who still have a lot of goodwill in the product and would rather patronize developers who actually have a creative vision and engage with the players over the rest of the committee-driven trash that plagues the industry. Doesn't really matter to me how the content is distributed if it is still quality.


They don't release the DLL until they are done developing official content. They are still developing official content. Sorry man, but technically they don't have to release it at all. And yeah we can argue whether waiting helps or hurts the mod community but feeling entitled to it is just....myopic.

Well, that's your opinion. I will only add one thing. Why don't they have to do something people want? It's an anti-consumer kind of approach. OK. Consumers don't have to buy it, then. And everything will fall apart. The consumers are the King, not some developers. Also, I would not say the AI is of good "quality" since 2016. Lastly, the game has not been developed for many months now. Not even a single patch? No winter patch. And now they want you to pay for the content that is not done yet. No communication with the community at all etc. Is this how you develop a game?

 

[Xefjord]

They don't give people what they wait for mostly. Fans want DLL source code. This should be the priority. Instead they want to control/limit things? Look at other companies like Bethesda or Paradox. Modding is so important, especially because developers will never provide you the content modders can.

I love our modding community don't get me wrong, but I didn't buy Civ 6 for the mods, it is just the icing on the cake. Modders want the DLL, many players would appreciate Modders being able to get the DLL, but the lack of it isn't going to ruin what is already a great game imo. Sorry I can't wallow with you there. I just knew from the moment I first bought Civ 6 that if DLL based mods were the only way I was going to have a good time with Civ, I wouldn't have even bothered with the game because it was going to be years upon years out.

Edit: Don't paint all fans with the same brush, some can enjoy the game without DLL

 

[HR1975]

2020 IS SAVED!

I haven't read the whole thread so not sure if this has been discussed yet, but does anyone think JFK is going to be the ninth leader based on the pass title?

I threw that out earlier. Would make a lot of sense with a Vietnam civ and ideology update.