[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Zaarin]

With most ancient western civilizations it wasn’t uncommon for real figures to become deified, so I wouldn’t be surprised if Dido did exist and then her myth preceded her

I expect it was the other way around: it was also very common for leaders to claim descent from divinities.

Even if her name specifically refers to a god, the name in and of itself isn't sufficient evidence that she wasn't a real person. As pointed out by M.E. Aubert, "there are too many coincidences between the eastern and the classical sources to allow us to think that the story of Elissa [Dido] had no historical basis".

Then perhaps what we're looking at is conflation of two figures: a real queen of Tyre and a goddess whose names got conflated over time.

As to the godly name itself, Wikipedia's entry on her provides "It was a common ancient practice of using the hypocoristicon or shortened form of the name that included only the divine element...."

This isn't my observation. The hypochorism of Baʿalsaloḥ, "Baal saves," is Saloḥ. The short form of DN-yaton or Yaton-DN is Yaton.

 

[Morningcalm]

Then perhaps what we're looking at is conflation of two figures: a real queen of Tyre and a goddess whose names got conflated over time.

Perhaps, but historical scholars generally agree she was a real queen of Tyre, and do not mention the individual's name as being conflated with that of a goddess (even if Dido happens to correspond to the name of a deity).

 

[Kibikus]

I might be reading it wrong. Pack 4 is the only other one with coming with new city-states. If we are getting 6 city-states in Pack 1 it will be Palenque's replacement plus another set of 5.
So I would assume we would only get one more Civ in the pass that would need a city state replaced. The most likely candidate is either Babylon or Portugal/Byzantines if they use Antioch, Italy etc.

I doubt that the Palenque's replacement will be one of the 6 new city-states. It will probably be just a name change, and the ability will stay the same (growth rate). The 6 new will most likely be one each of the city-state types, with new bonuses.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I doubt that the Palenque's replacement will be one of the 6 new city-states. It will probably be just a name change, and the ability will stay the same (growth rate). The 6 new will most likely be one each of the city-state types, with new bonuses.

They've always come in sets of 5 though (military, religion, trade, culture, science).
So I am assuming that Palenque's name change and does count even if they keep the same bonus.

Edit* I'm crazy. Disregard everything I've said regarding city-states.

 

[pokiehl]

They've always come in sets of 5 though (military, religion, trade, culture, science).
So I am assuming that Palenque's name change and does count even if they keep the same bonus.

Sets of 6 - you're missing Industrial

 

[Hoppip22]

What are you talking about both are historically relevant. And I don't get this idea of "fan pressure", like it is somehow a bad thing that the devs made something the players wanted. HOW DARE THEY!!!

Okay hahaha you're right, I hyperbolized there. Obviously both have historical relevance. World history is the culmination of every interaction between every group of people, so every perspective is important in understanding history. I don't think it's unfair to categorize some Civilizations as more or less historically important than others, though. You can tell the story of world history without Georgia and Canada, but not without China or Spain.

Also I'm not saying that fan pressure is a bad thing, I LOVED when they announced Georgia! It just leaves something for me personally to desire when I'm trying to roleplay history with this game and I can't play as the intercontinental, colonial Portuguese empire, but I can play as 3 separate English-speaking colonial civilizations.

I ask about 'meme civs' because the developers obviously take into account the fandom's wishes when deciding civilizations, and I wanna know what civs others would be hype to have but might seem unrealistic, like Canada or Georgia did.

 

[Inawordyes]

Sets of 6 - you're missing Industrial

And we know/have a decent guess that Vatican City is in, so it will take the Relgious CS spot. Which leaves the other five open. Palenque's replacement probably won't count as it's not going anywhere, just likely getting a name change.

 

[Zaarin]

You can tell the story of world history without Georgia and Canada, but not without China or Spain.

I don't know: American education seems to get by just fine without mentioning China more than cursorily.

I ask about 'meme civs' because the developers obviously take into account the fandom's wishes when deciding civilizations, and I wanna know what civs others would be hype to have but might seem unrealistic, like Canada or Georgia did.

Vietnam seems the likeliest in that category--or else Gran Colombia itself.

 

[WillowBrook]

Pack 4 is the only other one with coming with new city-states. If we are getting 6 city-states in Pack 1 it will be Palenque's replacement plus another set of 5.

I doubt that the Palenque's replacement will be one of the 6 new city-states. It will probably be just a name change, and the ability will stay the same (growth rate). The 6 new will most likely be one each of the city-state types, with new bonuses.

What @Kibikus said, was about to say that myself. I don't think the addition of city states in pack 4 tells us anything about what Civ is being added. It might mean that the new mode is less interesting/extensive than the others so they felt a need to add more content.

If a city state needs to be removed due to overlap with the new civ, they'll just rename it, it won't count as a new city state.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

And we know/have a decent guess that Vatican City is in, so it will take the Relgious CS spot. Which leaves the other five open. Palenque's replacement probably won't count as it's not going anywhere, just likely getting a name change.

What @Kibikus said, was about to say that myself. I don't think the addition of city states in pack 4 tells us anything about what Civ is being added. It might mean that the new mode is less interesting/extensive than the others so they felt a need to add more content.

If a city state needs to be removed due to overlap with the new civ, they'll just rename it, it won't count as a new city state.

I did a Firaxis and miscounted how many are in a set.
I apparently forgot the Industrial ones existed for a little bit.
I'm all good now.

 

[Xefjord]

I think there is kind of a general consensus that Vietnam is probably making it in this pass, which I am very excited for as I love Vietnamese history and culture. But I am starting to wonder in what ways they will differentiate themselves from our current line up. Vietnam has had a largely warlike history filled with wars, invasions, and rebellions. Many of their most well known inventions and innovations were all war related.

On one hand I could see them going the route of making Vietnam into the ultimate turtle. Slap a Le Loi as the leader and you can really push the meme further (Le Loi was given a powerful magic sword by a turtle living in a lake in the capital), but to an extent a good defense can also be a good offense and Maya and Gran Columbia can both somewhat fit the niche of being a turtle and aggressive expansionist respectively. So will they go something different? I can think of a few times in history where Vietnam may have been able to pursue other victories, but they wouldn't be times that I think are very internationally (or even domestically) very well known.

 

[VermelhoRed]

I think there is kind of a general consensus that Vietnam is probably making it in this pass, which I am very excited for as I love Vietnamese history and culture. But I am starting to wonder in what ways they will differentiate themselves from our current line up. Vietnam has had a largely warlike history filled with wars, invasions, and rebellions. Many of their most well known inventions and innovations were all war related.

On one hand I could see them going the route of making Vietnam into the ultimate turtle. Slap a Le Loi as the leader and you can really push the meme further (Le Loi was given a powerful magic sword by a turtle living in a lake in the capital), but to an extent a good defense can also be a good offense and Maya and Gran Columbia can both somewhat fit the niche of being a turtle and aggressive expansionist respectively. So will they go something different? I can think of a few times in history where Vietnam may have been able to pursue other victories, but they wouldn't be times that I think are very internationally (or even domestically) very well known.

I think it all depends on how daring they are going to be relating modern Vietnam. If they're really daring they might include some reference to the rapid industrialization, and maybe the Viet Cong as the UU. Either way I expect some defensive bonuses, plus a more cultural side of things, and the water theatre will likely be an UB.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I think it all depends on how daring they are going to be relating modern Vietnam. If they're really daring they might include some reference to the rapid industrialization, and maybe the Viet Cong as the UU. Either way I expect some defensive bonuses, plus a more cultural side of things, and the water theatre will likely be an UB.

Would the Viet Cong being the UU be too controversial?

Also, given the leader will likely be Medieval or earlier, why would they pick a UU that makes them split between what would end up being classical/medieval and atomic/modern

 

[VermelhoRed]

Also, given the leader will likely be Medieval or earlier, why would they pick a UU that makes them split between what would end up being classical/medieval and atomic/modern

Because they actually prefer to do stuff like that to establish a continuity. See Germany with medieval leader and submarine UU, and India with modern leader and war elephant UU.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Because they actually prefer to do stuff like that to establish a continuity. See Germany with medieval leader and submarine UU, and India with modern leader and war elephant UU.

they’ve done that less since the base game though. Only base game civs do that

 

[Xandinho]

Vietnam seems the likeliest in that category--or else Gran Colombia itself.

Or Italy, I think Italy is as in demand as Vietnam, or maybe more? Some people want to see Italians interacting crazily with city-states.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think it all depends on how daring they are going to be relating modern Vietnam. If they're really daring they might include some reference to the rapid industrialization, and maybe the Viet Cong as the UU. Either way I expect some defensive bonuses, plus a more cultural side of things, and the water theatre will likely be an UB.

Please no Viet Cong. There are other options:
I would like to see the Mông_Đồng.

 

[blackcatatonic]

I'd rate Vietnam's chances as higher than Italy purely because we are quite likely to get a Civ from South East Asia and they are by far the most requested option. Italy on the other hand has plenty of competition as a European Civ, and there is still the view some have that it shouldn't be in the game as well as Rome.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

they’ve done that less since the base game though. Only base game civs do that

Not necessarily.
In R&F Wilhelmina has a Renaissance UU and the Hwacha was after Seondeok's time. Also they got the wrong era Highlander for Robert the Bruce.
To me it's not a big deal. My problem with the Viet Cong is there are better options, not the fact that it would come with a leader from an earlier era.

 

[VermelhoRed]

Honestly I'd choose the Viet Cong just for political reasons and I'll leave it at that. I'm not unbiased.