[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Thenewwwguy]

If any historical leader deserved to be included for their own sake, regardless of how relatively fleeting their empire was, it is probably Alexander. Maybe Attila, which is why I'm not completely ruling out the Huns yet.

shaka, simon bolivar and to an extent, genghis, beg to differ

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Possibly, although I think it may even be simpler than that. They wanted the elegant duality offered by Athens and Sparta, and Alexander didn't fit into that.

I mean that's also true and if they wanted a female leader Alexander wouldn't obviously cut it.

If multiple leaders does return for Civ 7 though I could see Alexander getting in as the militaristic Greek leader considering Macedon and Gorgo wasn't well received by all.

shaka, simon bolivar and to an extent, genghis, beg to differ

I would argue that the Zulu could easily be represented by Cetshwayo too. But at this point in the series it would feel weird to have the Zulu without Shaka unless they would have multiple leaders.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Must be some strong coffee.

ha, it's not been a good few months for me, sleeping wise.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

shaka, simon bolivar and to an extent, genghis, beg to differ

Solely for their own sake. Shaka might be borderline as to whether the Zulu were the best option or even necessary to represent the southern Bantu peoples. But Mongolia and Gran Colombia both represent fairly large cultural and political heritages that would be relevant regardless of who led them. Macedonia, by contrast, does not really add anything to the game that isn't well-represented by Greece and Persia.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I mean that's also true and if they wanted a female leader Alexander wouldn't obviously cut it.

If multiple leaders does return for Civ 7 though I could see Alexander getting in as the militaristic Greek leader considering Macedon and Gorgo wasn't well received by all.


I would argue that the Zulu could easily be represented by Cetshwayo too. But at this point in the series it would feel weird to have the Zulu without Shaka unless they would have multiple leaders.

If they wanted to do Leonidas instead of Gorgo in future versions of sparta, that would be pretty cool

and im secretly hoping Cetshwayo is the alt leader so we’ll see

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Vampire Castles being built outside your territory and sending yields to your capital sounds like they could reuse that design for Feitorias with obvious placement restrictions and not quite so extreme yields.

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

Vampire Castles being built outside your territory and sending yields to your capital sounds like they could reuse that design for Feitorias with obvious placement restrictions and not quite so extreme yields.

They're not adverse to using secret society abilities for civs either. Both the Voidsingers and Ethiopia have the "gain percentage of science and culture from faith" mechanic. I could totally see a Feitoria using something like the castle.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

They're not adverse to using secret society abilities for civs either. Both the Voidsingers and Ethiopia have the "gain percentage of science and culture from faith" mechanic. I could totally see a Feitoria using something like the castle.

That and a vampire unit being added for every promotion is not unlike Gran Colombia getting a Comandante General every era.

 

[pokiehl]

They're not adverse to using secret society abilities for civs either. Both the Voidsingers and Ethiopia have the "gain percentage of science and culture from faith" mechanic. I could totally see a Feitoria using something like the castle.

That makes a ton of sense! I bet you're right!

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

Vampire Castles being built outside your territory and sending yields to your capital sounds like they could reuse that design for Feitorias with obvious placement restrictions and not quite so extreme yields.

Good point.

 

[Codeword Iroquois]

I'm not saying England doesn't have its own artifacts, but the British Museum's ability in-game was literally plundering other civs' Archaeological Sites. They weren't exactly being subtle.

And even sites from smaller museums.

Maybe we'll get to play as Leopold II and commit crimes against humanity toward Mvemba

Oh no... Or play as Alfred and wish you could pillage the Golden Gate Bridge connecting us to Freddy... Twice.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Just some thoughts:

Civilization V added a full fifteen new civs, but only six-ish of them were intended to replace or fix prior civs from IV. If you count the Shoshone/Iroquois as each half-replacing the Native American civ, that means we got ten completely new civs/regions represented on the map:

* Denmark (replaced Vikings)
* Shoshone (half-replaced Native Americans)
* Iroquois (half-replaced Native Americans)
* Songhai (replaced Mali)
* Siam (replaced Khmer)
* Assyria (replaced Sumeria)
* Polynesia
* Brazil
* Venice
* Indonesia
* Poland
* Morocco
* Sweden
* Huns
* Austria

Civilization VI has added 18 "new" civs, but if you consider the the two Native American tribes we have as a sort of exchange, eleven of those are replacements or improvements on V civs (plus a twelfth which is just "Alexander: The Civ"):

* Scythia (replaced Huns)
* Scotland (replaced Celts)
* Maori (replaced Polynesia)
* Khmer (returning, replaced Siam)
* Sumeria (returning, replaced Babylon)
* Hungary (replaced Austria)
* Norway (replaced Denmark)
* Phoenicia (replaced Carthage)
* Mali (returning, replaced Songhai)
* Cree (somewhat replaced Iroquois)
* Mapuche (somewhat replaced Shoshone)
* Georgia
* Australia
* Canada
* Kongo
* Nubia
* Gran Colombia
* Macedonia (really just an excuse for Alexander to return)

(And if we don't get Byzantium as its own civ, I would consider Georgia as effectively replacing Byzantium).

V went extremely wide with adding completely new civs to the franchise. VI seems more preoccupied with refining the scope of VI, presumably because V already covered so much territory. I would note that all of these replacements either occupy the same general territory of their predecessors, or if they do not they push into territory that wasn't covered by any other civ (Scotland, Scythia, Maori, Hungary, Phoenicia, Cree, Mapuche). And similarly the wholly new civs are completely about filling map-gaps, with only Nubia being somewhat borderline.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Civ V was actually the second appearance for the Iroquois. They first appeared in Civ III. Austria was also in Civ II, but you had to mod the software to make them appear.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Austria was also in Civ II, but you had to mod the software to make them appear.

Correction, Austria was in the code in Civ 3, not 2, and you had to mod it in, yes.

Maria Theresa was a leader in Civ 2 though.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Vampire Castles being built outside your territory and sending yields to your capital sounds like they could reuse that design for Feitorias with obvious placement restrictions and not quite so extreme yields.

I was thinking they reminded me vaguely of colonies--was that civ III or iv? Or maybe supply crawlers from smac. A way to get a resource outside your territory . . .

 

[The Kingmaker]

And the Arabs and Incas were in the code for Civ2 but had no art.

I also seem to remember reading somewhere that the Ottomans were originally considered for Civ1 but were scrapped and not seen again until Civ3.

Colonies were in Civ3.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Civilization VI has added 18 "new" civs, but if you consider the the two Native American tribes we have as a sort of exchange, eleven of those are replacements or improvements on V civs (plus a twelfth which is just "Alexander: The Civ"):

* Scythia (replaced Huns)
* Scotland (replaced Celts)
* Maori (replaced Polynesia)
* Khmer (returning, replaced Siam)
* Sumeria (returning, replaced Babylon)
* Hungary (replaced Austria)
* Norway (replaced Denmark)
* Phoenicia (replaced Carthage)
* Mali (returning, replaced Songhai)
* Cree (somewhat replaced Iroquois)
* Mapuche (somewhat replaced Shoshone)
* Georgia
* Australia
* Canada
* Kongo
* Nubia
* Gran Colombia
* Macedonia (really just an excuse for Alexander to return)

(And if we don't get Byzantium as its own civ, I would consider Georgia as effectively replacing Byzantium).

Not sure if I understand why Mapuche would somewhat replace the Shoshone, considering there is still the possibility for another North American tribe, though I guess that's why you said possible.
I also wouldn't 100% say that Sumeria replaced Babylon either as I think it has a 50/50 chance at returning.

I'd also add that if we don't end up getting anything else from North Africa, like the Berbers, I can kind of see how a combination of both Nubia and Mali's design might be seen as a replacement for Morocco. Mali focusing on the land and desert trading aspects and Nubia having a desert improvement and location being in North Africa as well.

And since we are apparently doing tidbits now on civs first appearances, Japan actually appeared in Civ 1 on the SNES instead of the Zulu.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Civ V was actually the second appearance for the Iroquois. They first appeared in Civ III. Austria was also in Civ II, but you had to mod the software to make them appear.

I didn't count Austria because it wasn't part of the official release.

And I counted the Iroquois as a newly returning civ for V because they specifically did not appear in IV, much like how I counted Mali, Khmer, and Sumeria as new in VI with respect to V.

At any rate, point still stands. V had a lot of entirely new civs, and VI has a lot of "replacements".

Not sure if I understand why Mapuche would somewhat replace the Shoshone, considering there is still the possibility for another North American tribe, though I guess that's why you said possible.
I also wouldn't 100% say that Sumeria replaced Babylon either as I think it has a 50/50 chance at returning.

While it remains to be seen if we get more Native American civs (in which case I would probably count a Navajo/Apache or PNW as "replacing" the Shoshone and reassigning the Mapuche being a totally new addition), at the moment we have a clear two-for-two tradeoff. And if the roster stopped here, I would say the mechanical niches are similar enough that they just reallocated the slots to neglected parts of the western hemisphere. Iroquois were a trading/longhouse civ, Cree are a trading/mekewap civ. Shoshone were a defensive/raider civ. Mapuche are a defensive/raider civ.

Until we get Babylon (and I still think it will likely remain a city-state), I think Sumeria, particularly the way it is designed in VI, is intended to represent Babylon as well. I generally get the overarching impression that if we get a second Mesopotamian civ, it will be Assyria, since it is much more distinguishable culturally and geographically from Sumeria.

I'd also add that if we don't end up getting anything else from North Africa, like the Berbers, I can kind of see how a combination of both Nubia and Mali's design might be seen as a replacement for Morocco. Mali focusing on the land and desert trading aspects and Nubia having a desert improvement and location being in North Africa as well.

I think the real problem is the barbary corsair with the Ottomans. For a while I thought the mandekalu cavalry were a bit of a problem, but those were also the Songhai UU in V and they coexisted with the berber cavalry for Morocco. But I don't see Nubia as really impacting design much. Mali moreso but the Berbers could go in a completely different non-gold direction.

My observation that most of the "new" civs in VI are intended to "fix" civs from V gives me hope that Morocco wasn't abandoned, but instead refined into a Berber/Numidia civ. I, too, would be extremely disappointed if we got nothing from that region.

And since we are apparently doing tidbits now on civs first appearances, Japan actually appeared in Civ 1 on the SNES instead of the Zulu.

I was unaware of this! It's actually quite interesting looking back and seeing basic civs like Spain didn't even make Civ I.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I didn't count Austria because it wasn't part of the official release.

And I counted the Iroquois as a newly returning civ for V because they specifically did not appear in IV, much like how I counted Mali, Khmer, and Sumeria as new in VI with respect to V.

At any rate, point still stands. V had a lot of entirely new civs, and VI has a lot of "replacements".

I guess speaking of "half-replacements" I would also say that Austria in Civ 5 kind of half-replaced the Holy Roman Empire from Civ 4 for the better considering there was a fair amount of Austrian cities on the list.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I guess speaking of "half-replacements" I would also say that Austria in Civ 5 kind of half-replaced the Holy Roman Empire from Civ 4 for the better considering there was a fair amount of Austrian cities on the list.

Okay I guess I will grant this as another replacement.