[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think the real problem is the barbary corsair with the Ottomans. For a while I thought the mandekalu cavalry were a bit of a problem, but those were also the Songhai UU in V and they coexisted with the berber cavalry for Morocco. But I don't see Nubia as really impacting design much. Mali moreso but the Berbers could go in a completely different non-gold direction.

My observation that most of the "new" civs in VI are intended to "fix" civs from V gives me hope that Morocco wasn't abandoned, but instead refined into a Berber/Numidia civ. I, too, would be extremely disappointed if we got nothing from that region.

I didn't think about the Barbary Corsair.
I agree that Mali and Nubia might not impact a Berber/Numidia civ at all but I think conceptually they decided Morocco would definitely at least feel closer to Mali.
Nubia was more on the fact that they are another North Africa civ that's not Egypt.

I was unaware of this! It's actually quite interesting looking back and seeing basic civs like Spain didn't even make Civ I.

Well considering Nintendo is Japanese, I am assuming felt the need to put Japan in the SNES version of the game in order to release it. The Zulu I guess were the most expendable and I guess it was just Egypt for Africa, unless you played the PC version where the Zulu were in it.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I guess speaking of "half-replacements" I would also say that Austria in Civ 5 kind of half-replaced the Holy Roman Empire from Civ 4 for the better considering there was a fair amount of Austrian cities on the list.

well, the hapsburgs did basically run the HRE for 300 years

 

[Yubnub]

Some thoughts focused around existing city-states, apologies if someone has already posted something similar. For the record, I'm simply gauging the likelihood of a city-state become a civilization and not their worthiness.

City-states with unique improvements:

Armagh (Ireland)*
Caguana (Taino)
Cahokia (Mississippian)
Granada (Spain)*
La Venta (Olmec)
Nazca
Rapa Nui

City-states with unique improvements have never been "upgraded" to civilization status.

City-states that replaced city-states which became full-fledged civilizations:

Bandar Brunei (Brunei)
Antioch (Byzantine)*
Babylon
Bologna (Italy)*
Mexico City (Mexico)
Ngazaragmu (Kanem-Bornu)
Mitla (Zapotec)

These city states have never been upgraded either.

City-states with a unique unit:

Lahore (Punjab)

The only city-state with a unique unit, but it seems unlikely to become a civilization.

City-states with general buffs have been upgraded to civilization status in the past, and their effects have been passed down to their replacement.
I've organized them into different categories.

City-states that are unlikely to become civilizations:

Antananarivo (Madagascar)
Auckland (New Zealand)
Cardiff (Wales)
Geneva (Swizterland)
Hong Kong
Hunza
Jerusalem (Israel)
Kandy (Sri Lanka)
Mohenjo-Daro
Muscat (Oman)
Nan Madol
Preslav (Bulgaria)
Singapore
Taruga (Nigeria/Nok)
Valleta (Malta)
Vatican City
Vilnius (Lithuania)
Yerevan (Armenia)
Zanzibar (Tanzania)

These city-states are generally either actual city-states, or part of a smaller, but important, culture. Oh, and Israel. This isn't to say that one can't make an argument for the inclusion of a Madagascar or Armenia civ, for example, but it seems unlikely to me.

City-states which have been part of civilizations in past civ titles:

Fez (Morocco)
Hattusa (Hittite)
Lisbon (Portugal)

These city-states are very likely to become civilizations. Portugal has been been in Civ since 3 and is almost guaranteed to be in at some point. Morocco was introduced in 5 and has not been "replaced" by another civ in some way like other civs have. Hattusa is a Fertile Crescent/Mesopotamian civ and it is highly likely that another one of this type of civ is likely to make it in the NF pass.

City-states which have not been civilizations in past titles, but which are significant enough that there is a, albeit small, possibility to become civilizations.

Akkad (Akkadian)
Brussels (Belgium)
Buenos Aires (Argentina)
Kumasi (Ghana/Ashanti)

Akkad (or Hattusa) is more likely to fill the role of Fertile Crescent/Mesopotamian civ than Babylon.
Gran Colombia has likely filled the role of modern Latin American Civ over Argentina.
Ethiopia has likely filled the role of a sub-Saharan African civ over Ghana/Ashanti.
Lisbon is more likely to fill the roll of a Western European civ than Brussels.

*Armagh is in Northern Ireland; if there is an Irish civ, it would not be so strange to keep it as a city-state. Similarly, Antioch has been part of the Byzantine city list, but it can coexist alongside a Byzantine civ just like Granada with Spain, or a theoretical Italian civ and Bologna.

TLDR: Of the existing city-states, Lisbon (Portugal) is likely to be upgraded to civ status. Fez (Morocco) has a good chance as well. Either Hattusa (Hittite) or Akkad are more likely to be upgraded than Babylon.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Some thoughts focused around existing city-states, apologies if someone has already posted something similar. For the record, I'm simply gauging the likelihood of a city-state become a civilization and not their worthiness.

City-states with unique improvements:

Armagh (Ireland)*
Caguana (Taino)
Cahokia (Mississippian)
Granada (Spain)*
La Venta (Olmec)
Nazca
Rapa Nui

City-states with unique improvements have never been "upgraded" to civilization status.

City-states that replaced city-states which became full-fledged civilizations:

Bandar Brunei (Brunei)
Antioch (Byzantine)*
Babylon
Bologna (Italy)*
Mexico City (Mexico)
Ngazaragmu (Kanem-Bornu)
Mitla (Zapotec)

These city states have never been upgraded either.

City-states with a unique unit:

Lahore (Punjab)

The only city-state with a unique unit, but it seems unlikely to become a civilization.

City-states with general buffs have been upgraded to civilization status in the past, and their effects have been passed down to their replacement.
I've organized them into different categories.

City-states that are unlikely to become civilizations:

Antananarivo (Madagascar)
Auckland (New Zealand)
Cardiff (Wales)
Geneva (Swizterland)
Hong Kong
Hunza
Jerusalem (Israel)
Kandy (Sri Lanka)
Mohenjo-Daro
Muscat (Oman)
Nan Madol
Preslav (Bulgaria)
Singapore
Taruga (Nigeria/Nok)
Valleta (Malta)
Vatican City
Vilnius (Lithuania)
Yerevan (Armenia)
Zanzibar (Tanzania)

These city-states are generally either actual city-states, or part of a smaller, but important, culture. Oh, and Israel. This isn't to say that one can't make an argument for the inclusion of a Madagascar or Armenia civ, for example, but it seems unlikely to me.

City-states which have been part of civilizations in past civ titles:

Fez (Morocco)
Hattusa (Hittite)
Lisbon (Portugal)

These city-states are very likely to become civilizations. Portugal has been been in Civ since 3 and is almost guaranteed to be in at some point. Morocco was introduced in 5 and has not been "replaced" by another civ in some way like other civs have. Hattusa is a Fertile Crescent/Mesopotamian civ and it is highly likely that another one of this type of civ is likely to make it in the NF pass.

City-states which have not been civilizations in past titles, but which are significant enough that there is a, albeit small, possibility to become civilizations.

Akkad (Akkadian)
Brussels (Belgium)
Buenos Aires (Argentina)
Kumasi (Ghana/Ashanti)

Akkad (or Hattusa) is more likely to fill the role of Fertile Crescent/Mesopotamian civ than Babylon.
Gran Colombia has likely filled the role of modern Latin American Civ over Argentina.
Ethiopia has likely filled the role of a sub-Saharan African civ over Ghana/Ashanti.
Lisbon is more likely to fill the roll of a Western European civ than Brussels.

*Armagh is in Northern Ireland; if there is an Irish civ, it would not be so strange to keep it as a city-state. Similarly, Antioch has been part of the Byzantine city list, but it can coexist alongside a Byzantine civ just like Granada with Spain, or a theoretical Italian civ and Bologna.

TLDR: Of the existing city-states, Lisbon (Portugal) is likely to be upgraded to civ status. Fez (Morocco) has a good chance as well. Either Hattusa (Hittite) or Akkad are more likely to be upgraded than Babylon.

you ignored the babylon city state in returning city states

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

*Armagh is in Northern Ireland; if there is an Irish civ, it would not be so strange to keep it as a city-state. Similarly, Antioch has been part of the Byzantine city list, but it can coexist alongside a Byzantine civ just like Granada with Spain, or a theoretical Italian civ and Bologna.

The way Granada is designed, by granting the suzerain bonus to building an Alcazar improvement, I would say it is supposed to represent Al Andalus or the Emirate of Granada, considering it was on Spain's city list at launch then removed later.

I still think Armagh would be an Irish city since Northern Ireland has only existed for 99 years and was part of united Ireland for much longer.
Plus it's the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland and legendary home of St. Patrick. Who's more Irish than St. Patrick?

 

[The Kingmaker]

I still think Armagh would be an Irish city since Northern Ireland has only existed for 99 years and was part of united Ireland for much longer.
Plus it's the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland and legendary home of St. Patrick. Who's more Irish than St. Patrick?

St. Patrick was Romano-British.

 

[Xandinho]

I would place Antananarivo/Madagascar, Preslav/Bulgaria and Hunza/Muisca in the category of significant enough to become civilization (perhaps not in NFP, but in a future round of passes or editions of the game). I think they are more likely than Belgium.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

St. Patrick was Romano-British.

His Irish home when he made it to Ireland is what I mean.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Some thoughts focused around existing city-states, apologies if someone has already posted something similar. For the record, I'm simply gauging the likelihood of a city-state become a civilization and not their worthiness.

City-states with unique improvements:

Armagh (Ireland)*
Caguana (Taino)
Cahokia (Mississippian)
Granada (Spain)*
La Venta (Olmec)
Nazca
Rapa Nui

City-states with unique improvements have never been "upgraded" to civilization status.

City-states that replaced city-states which became full-fledged civilizations:

Bandar Brunei (Brunei)
Antioch (Byzantine)*
Babylon
Bologna (Italy)*
Mexico City (Mexico)
Ngazaragmu (Kanem-Bornu)
Mitla (Zapotec)

These city states have never been upgraded either.

City-states with a unique unit:

Lahore (Punjab)

The only city-state with a unique unit, but it seems unlikely to become a civilization.

I find it odd that everyone keeps classifying Antioch as representing Byzantium. It feels more Seleucid to me.

City-states with general buffs have been upgraded to civilization status in the past, and their effects have been passed down to their replacement.
I've organized them into different categories.

City-states that are unlikely to become civilizations:

Antananarivo (Madagascar)
Auckland (New Zealand)
Cardiff (Wales)
Geneva (Swizterland)
Hong Kong
Hunza
Jerusalem (Israel)
Kandy (Sri Lanka)
Mohenjo-Daro
Muscat (Oman)
Nan Madol
Preslav (Bulgaria)
Singapore
Taruga (Nigeria/Nok)
Valleta (Malta)
Vatican City
Vilnius (Lithuania)
Yerevan (Armenia)
Zanzibar (Tanzania)

These city-states are generally either actual city-states, or part of a smaller, but important, culture. Oh, and Israel. This isn't to say that one can't make an argument for the inclusion of a Madagascar or Armenia civ, for example, but it seems unlikely to me.

I would classify Muscat (Oman)/Zanziber (Kilwa) and Preslav (Bulgaria) as being reasonably probable given how large and enduring their empires were in regions that aren't culturally represented very well. I would also throw out Yerevan (Armenia) as being a dark horse option over Assyria, and Antananarivo (Madagascar) as possibly being included over Oman/Swahili/Kilwa. Outside of those I would agree that the rest are quite unlikely.

City-states which have been part of civilizations in past civ titles:

Fez (Morocco)
Hattusa (Hittite)
Lisbon (Portugal)

These city-states are very likely to become civilizations. Portugal has been been in Civ since 3 and is almost guaranteed to be in at some point. Morocco was introduced in 5 and has not been "replaced" by another civ in some way like other civs have. Hattusa is a Fertile Crescent/Mesopotamian civ and it is highly likely that another one of this type of civ is likely to make it in the NF pass.

City-states which have not been civilizations in past titles, but which are significant enough that there is a, albeit small, possibility to become civilizations.

Akkad (Akkadian)
Brussels (Belgium)
Buenos Aires (Argentina)
Kumasi (Ghana/Ashanti)

Akkad (or Hattusa) is more likely to fill the role of Fertile Crescent/Mesopotamian civ than Babylon.
Gran Colombia has likely filled the role of modern Latin American Civ over Argentina.
Ethiopia has likely filled the role of a sub-Saharan African civ over Ghana/Ashanti.
Lisbon is more likely to fill the roll of a Western European civ than Brussels.

*Armagh is in Northern Ireland; if there is an Irish civ, it would not be so strange to keep it as a city-state. Similarly, Antioch has been part of the Byzantine city list, but it can coexist alongside a Byzantine civ just like Granada with Spain, or a theoretical Italian civ and Bologna.

TLDR: Of the existing city-states, Lisbon (Portugal) is likely to be upgraded to civ status. Fez (Morocco) has a good chance as well. Either Hattusa (Hittite) or Akkad are more likely to be upgraded than Babylon.

I wouldn't necessarily say that city-states which were previously civs are "likely" to get in, besides Lisbon (Portugal). Both Hattusa (Hittites) and Babylon co-occupy a lot of space with the Ottomans and Sumeria, and the comfortable Mesopotamian option appears to be Assyria. And while Morocco does stand out as one of the only civs from V which has not been "replaced" by another civ (such as Austria (Hungary), Denmark (Norway), Celts (Scotland), Huns (Scythia), Carthage (Phoenicia), Songhai (Mali), Siam (Khmer), Polynesia (Maori), etc.), the Fez city-state combined with the Moroccan flag on the diplo vic screen suggests that Morocco will not return itself, but would be replaced by a Berber/Numidia civ.

I generally agree with your conclusions, even though they are somewhat cherry-picked to exclude options like Oman and Bulgaria, and favor quite odd selections like Belgium and Argentina. If we are just looking at city-states, Akkadia and Hattusa are more likely than Babylon, but none are as likely as Assyria. Gran Colombia serves an almost identical niche as Argentina would, and was generally the stronger option; no Argentina. And Belgium is no more likely to happen than Ireland, Switzerland, or Finland, so of course Lisbon is more likely.

Given that there are two pockets of potential Sub-Saharan civs, along the Guinea and Swahili coasts, I don't think Ethiopia's inclusion means anything. Especially since Ethiopia is practically a staple at this point and doesn't really need to compete for "new" slots.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I would place Antananarivo/Madagascar, Preslav/Bulgaria and Hunza/Muisca in the category of significant enough to become civilization (perhaps not in NFP, but in a future round of passes or editions of the game). I think they are more likely than Belgium.

I don't know if they are going to plan on the Muisca getting in after we just got the city-state in NFP. Though I guess I agree that it still would be more likely than Belgium.

I find it odd that everyone keeps classifying Antioch as representing Byzantium. It feels more Seleucid to me.

It's probably because Antioch was on the Byzantine city list in 4 and 5. I can still see Antioch staying if the Byzantines get in or replaced if they have another city in mind that can fit the bonus which is easy enough to do.

 

[Zaarin]

and im secretly hoping Cetshwayo is the alt leader so we’ll see

When I think of civs that could benefit from a second leader, the Zulu certainly top that list. Maybe we can finally ditch Shaka in Civ7, but if we do I kind of hope we ditch the Zulu altogether. Meanwhile, the one-trickiest of one-trick Dom civs would get zero benefit from an alternate leader; of all the R&F civs, I consider only the Mapuche less likely to a get a second leader (the Cree are about on par with the Zulu in the sense that they have other good candidates but don't really have a compelling reason to get one).

 

[mitsho]

From the Patch thread, we‘ve got a Hint for the next civs. Or not, I don‘t know, but it doesn‘t seem to have been posted here...

Here's the full list of Relics of the Void - there's 25 total. Check out #25!

1. Relic of the Devouring Angel
2. Fungal Spore
3. Fragment of Akkorokamui
4. Black Goat's Horn
5. Foundation Stone
6. Relic of the Sightless Worm
7. Shard of Yog-Sothoth
8. Child of Azathoth
9. Chorus of the Drowned
10. Vessel of Nyarlathotep
11. Rangda's Chalice
12. Cup of the Star-Spawn
13. The Singing Worm
14. The Dream-Eater
15. The Shrieking Flowers
16. The Loveless Ones
17. The Tome of Dagon
18. The Book of Dead Names
19. The Left-Hand Sutra
20. Instructions for the Kumanthong
21. Teachings of the Worm
22. Memoirs of a Blind Astronomer
23. A Journal of Next Year's Dreams
24. Chronicle of Descent
25. Hint Guide: Civilization II

 

[PhoenicianGold]

From the Patch thread, we‘ve got a Hint for the next civs. Or not, I don‘t know, but it doesn‘t seem to have been posted here...

Is that actually a hint lol? I doubt we are getting the Vikings, Celts, Sioux, or Babylon.

(Although I would not have minded if we had skipped the Cree and brought the Sioux back...)

 

[mitsho]

It‘s probably only an easter egg, but it could be...

I just like the speculation here...

 

[The Kingmaker]

Is that actually a hint lol? I doubt we are getting the Vikings, Celts, Sioux, or Babylon.

(Although I would not have minded if we had skipped the Cree and brought the Sioux back...)

We already have Vikings with Hardrada.

And Gaul, Babylon and/or a Native American tribe such as the Sioux are all certainly still possible.

 

[Zaarin]

Is that actually a hint lol? I doubt we are getting the Vikings, Celts, Sioux, or Babylon.

It could be a hint for Babylon, but I don't think it is.

(Although I would not have minded if we had skipped the Cree and brought the Sioux back...)

I appreciate that they found a way to give us a Plains tribe without being another horse raider civ so I'm pleased to have the Cree rather than the Lakhota or Sioux or whatever they chose to call the civ.

 

[DWilson]

In the Ethiopia patch notes discussion, someone has pointed out a read me referencing Vietnam and Kublai (as an example, so there's nothing definitive). Which is probably my biggest hope for a possible pack, and would make me ecstatic.

 

[WillowBrook]

In the new teddy roosevelt folder in the DLC folder in game data, there is a readme which states:

This folder contains gameplay data. Be careful to distinguish between two types of gameplay files:
1. Gameplay that needs to be on by default (ex. KublaiKhan_Vietnam_Civilizations.xml for the new content, KublaiKhan_Vietnam_Expansion2.xml for tweaks specific to playing in the XP2 ruleset)
Expansion1_Required Material will work in either expansion as long as you have Expansion1 enabled.
2. Gameplay that is part of an optional mode, specifying the ruleset needed (if any) and ending in “_Modes” (ex. KublaiKhan_Vietnam_Modes.xml for content related to the Alternate Economy game mode)

I'm assuming they're just saying Kublai and Vietnam as example filenames and not that these civs will be in NFP and they forgot to remove it, but... well, people may be interested.

This is much more of a hint than the relics of the void, IMHO.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

This is much more of a hint than the relics of the void, IMHO.

And a person on the next page shows the readme for the Ethiopia pack that says Ethiopia and Menelik.

 

[Josephias]

Noo.. are you saying we don't get an altertante Scots leader!! . I don't think we can take that as a hint.

Was one of the most probable scenarios, as far as we discussed here... but, hey we will not be sure until confirmed.