[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Thenewwwguy]

I think it's worth noting that the sources that call the Buddhist sources "propaganda" and that criticize Seondeok's Buddhism were Confucian. They're hardly unbiased. Not to mention that Confucian sources always disapprove of women in power because that's not their Confucian role. Uncritically taking Confucian sources from centuries later from a later dynasty on Seondeok's reign feels rather like taking Roman sources on the Carthaginians or Gauls at their word.

it’s also why baekje and tang later justified aggression (although tang at least was an ally for some period of time), since confucianism was relatively influential in all of said kingdoms

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Sejong was a great leader, don’t get me wrong, but it’s good to rotate leader choices. Seondeok was the best choice considering the play style they wanted, although I would’ve picked Gwanggaeto or Taejo if they didn’t mind a more militaristic Korea.

I am bit upset that see seemed to be taking Muyeol's place just because she is a female. Muyeol should have been Korea's leader if they wanted leaders from Silla period

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I am bit upset that see seemed to be taking Muyeol's place just because she is a female. Muyeol should have been Korea's leader if they wanted leaders from Silla period

they didn’t pick her for which kingdom she belonged to. They picked her for her accomplishments, which mostly were those tangential to culture and science.

Muyeol was a conquerer. He wouldn’t play well with the Korea which the devs wanted to portray

 

[Kupe Navigator]

they didn’t pick her for which kingdom she belonged to. They picked her for her accomplishments, which mostly were those tangential to culture and science.

Muyeol was a conquerer. He wouldn’t play well with the Korea which the devs wanted to portray

seondeok is no Elizabeth I. They could have chosen much better leader if they are not blinded by her gender.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

seondeok is no Elizabeth I. They could have chosen much better leader if they are not blinded by her gender.

given that they wanted a leader that focused on science and culture, and they didn’t want to reuse Sejong, who would you have picked? Seondeok was the best option given what they were looking for. Stop posting the arguments that we’ve had to hear from sexist fans for the past 3 years regarding Seondeok.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

given that they wanted a leader that focused on science and culture, and they didn’t want to reuse Sejong, who would you have picked? Seondeok was the best option given what they were looking for. Stop posting the arguments that we’ve had to hear from sexist fans for the past 3 years regarding Seondeok.

Yes. I mentioned it in another thread if they wanted to they could have easily made Sejong the Great and his leader ability be Hall of Worthies, which could have had the same bonuses as her Hwarang ability. The thing is that would basically make it to where Korea would be just based off of the Joseon period including the Seowon and the Hwacha.
At least with Seondeok they branched out the history of Korea. She was probably the best option, who just happened to be female.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

given that they wanted a leader that focused on science and culture, and they didn’t want to reuse Sejong, who would you have picked? Seondeok was the best option given what they were looking for. Stop posting the arguments that we’ve had to hear from sexist fans for the past 3 years regarding Seondeok.

It is not sexist.. this is the argument given by MANY Korean fans of civ. They said that Queen Seondok had no achievements to speak of and she was only chosen because of her gender and because of her crown and other jewellery. Even most Korean historians agree that she had no strong achievements.
( I can gve you a link if you can read Korean)

 

[Thenewwwguy]

It is not sexist.. this is the argument given by MANY Korean fans of civ. They said that Queen Seondok had no achievements to speak of and she was only chosen because of her gender and because of her crown and other jewellery. Even most Korean historians agree that she had no strong achievements.
( I can gve you a link if you can read Korean)

except it’s not true...

Again, I ask you: knowing civ didn’t want to make Korea a function of Sejong and wanted to rotate the leader choice but wanted to keep a focus on science and culture, who would you have picked if not Seondeok?

in korean history, Seondeok is the next most scientific/culture focused leader after Sejong.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

in korean history, Seondeok is the next most scientific/culture focused leader after Sejong.

no there was no other science focused monarchs except Sejong and maybe his sort lived son Munjong ( who only reigned 2 years but spent most of his time as prince concert when Sejong was too old and sick)
In fact in later of his life Munjong lead most of government stuff- heck he even invented Cheugugi. so yeah I think MunJong could have been a great pick

 

[Thenewwwguy]

no there was no other science focused monarchs except Sejong and maybe his sort lived son Munjong ( who only reigned 2 years but spent most of his time as prince concert when Sejong was too old and sick)
In fact in later of his life Munjong lead most of government stuff- heck he even invented Cheugugi. so yeah I think MunJong could have been a great pick

sounds like he could’ve been a good pick (although his rule feels awfully short, and probably isn’t the best civ pick in that regard) Seondeok also fits the bill however, which is why she was chosen (it also seems as if they felt that sticking with a joseon leader when considering science and culture would’ve been too similar to Sejong, and wanted to explore a different time area while still sticking with science and culture.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Seondeok also fits the bill however, which is why she was chosen (it also seems as if they felt that sticking with a joseon leader when considering science and culture would’ve been too similar to Sejong, and wanted to explore a different time area while still sticking with science and culture.

no what mostly happened was they designed Korea in Chosen but oopps Chosen didn't have any ruling queens so they hastly swoped it with Seondok as seen here
https://gall.dcinside.com/mgallery/board/view/?id=civilization&no=139065

In translation he said
"firstly taeguk and Bagua is a confusionist symbol but Silla is a Buddist country
UU hwacha was built in Chosen dynasty
UD Sewon was also built during Chosen
CA is called three kingdoms but it's got nothing to do with three kingdoms and it is centred around domestic affairs.
LA is a Hwarang that provides culture and science which got nothing to do with actuall Hwarang in history.
...
What happened was Firstly they probably had Sejong in mind
Next they finished basic civ for Korea and even had models for Sejong but later on decide that Civ 6 needs more focus on female rulers
but OPPS Chosen didn't have any ruling female Queens. Civ team panics. So they quickly search Silla and decided to pick on Seondok who is at least competent ruler out of all 3 queens. And they hastily recycled Chosen Korea to Silla. they just added meanless names and tada Korea is finished.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

no what mostly happened was they designed Korea in Chosen but oopps Chosen didn't have any ruling queens so they hastly swoped it with Seondok as seen here
https://gall.dcinside.com/mgallery/board/view/?id=civilization&no=139065

In translation he said
"firstly taeguk and Bagua is a confusionist symbol but Silla is a Buddist country
UU hwacha was built in Chosen dynasty
UD Sewon was also built during Chosen
CA is called three kingdoms but it's got nothing to do with three kingdoms and it is centred around domestic affairs.
LA is a Hwarang that provides culture and science which got nothing to do with actuall Hwarang in history.
...
What happened was Firstly they probably had Sejong in mind
Next they finished basic civ for Korea and even had models for Sejong but later on decide that Civ 6 needs more focus on female rulers
but OPPS Chosen didn't have any ruling female Queens. Civ team panics. So they quickly search Silla and decided to pick on Seondok who is at least competent ruler out of all 3 queens. And they hastily recycled Chosen Korea to Silla. they just added meanless names and tada Korea is finished.

disagree, but let’s change the topic since you’re clearly not going to change your mind.

So, I had a dream that the firaxis devs promised we’d get the Swahili in NFP on twitter.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

My dudes, an extensive analysis of Seondeok has naught to do with the topic of this thread. Can you please vent your spleens elsewhere?

 

[Thenewwwguy]

My dudes, an extensive analysis of Seondeok has naught to do with the topic of this thread. Can you please vent your spleens elsewhere?

sometimes the sexists have to drag their problems with a perfectly good leader choice into topics that have nothing to do with it. Remember that this started with the discussion of Jurchen as a civ and then the OP started complaining about seondeok

Moderator Action: Please do not troll the forums. leif

 

[Kupe Navigator]

sometimes the sexists have to drag their problems with a perfectly good leader choice into topics that have nothing to do with it. Remember that this started with the discussion of Jurchen as a civ and then the OP started complaining about seondeok

Don't call someone who doesn't agree with your historiography as sexists! I take offence at that!

Moderator Action: Please report posts you have an issue with. Responding only makes the situation worse and derails threads. leif

 

[GenyaArikado]

I think that picking leaders only for being female it's ok. Just being able be a female ruler was a big accomplishment in history.

If i ever made Civilization, expect mostly female leaders

Anyway. The MoorTiles has me scares we wont get Byzantines or Babble On/A Sir Ya'

 

[Kupe Navigator]

I think that picking leaders only for being female it's ok. Just being able be a female ruler was a big accomplishment in history.

not if she was only choice... and all the other males heirs died or otherwise made illegitimate.

I just wish civ devs learned form their mistake in Korea and hope future civs are created with much more concern- especially in choosing leaders.
( I am glad for Ethiopia they didn't go with Zewditu... I have a feeling that should Ethiopea was chosen bit early they might have done that)

 

[Red Adept]

Tires is a city in Portugal. With the word "Moor" in there, seems obvious to me.

Thanks for the info. That explains more!

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I think that picking leaders only for being female it's ok. Just being able be a female ruler was a big accomplishment in history.

If i ever made Civilization, expect mostly female leaders

Anyway. The MoorTiles has me scares we wont get Byzantines or Babble On/A Sir Ya'

Thanks for the info. That explains more!

MoorTires again is in all likelihood an arbitrary name; it could be literally anything.

While I hope that it isn't Byzantium or Assyria and we get fresh blood and a second season pass, I highly doubt the game will finish without at least Byzantium, and very likely will include Assyria if it can be fit in somewhere.

Burma, Bulgaria, Berbers. Burma, Bulgaria, Berbers.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

my dream scenario is september is an indian ocean pack with swahili and chola

it won’t happen but imagine if it did that would be so hype