[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

That said I wouldn’t be opposed to South Africa replacing Zulu in future iterations of the game just for gameplay variance if we can’t have Cetshwayo to replace Shaka

I think if South Africa did show up the Zulu and Shaka still wouldn't go anywhere. They've appeared in every game including the spinoff Civ Rev and the sequel.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I think if South Africa did show up the Zulu and Shaka still wouldn't go anywhere. They've appeared in every game including the spinoff Civ Rev and the sequel.

(technically in some versions of OG civ he was replaced by Japan but) true, but replacing shaka with cetshwayo or with mandela leading ZA would be interesting from a gameplay perspective

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

(technically in some versions of OG civ he was replaced by Japan but) true, but replacing shaka with cetshwayo or with mandela leading ZA would be interesting from a gameplay perspective

That's only because Japan needed to be in the game on the Nintendo console version, for some reason.
Personally I'd still rather Shaka and the Zulu than Mandela with South Africa, but wouldn't mind both in a future game as long as we get to like 70 civs.

 

[Birch617]

I would still like Argentina in the game tbh, Gran Colombia just represent the basic South/Latino american civ with the hacienda ( Its very non-specific to any country its like if we had an european civ with UI) and if the llaneros are just Gauchos that would get in the way, we have rough riders (basically the cowboy unit) and cowboys are usually group together with non native american horseriders so i think don't think its like imposible to see argentina, cuz it can also be a more modern latino civ and more culture base than the agressive Gran Colombia

 

[Thenewwwguy]

That's only because Japan needed to be in the game on the Nintendo console version, for some reason.
Personally I'd still rather Shaka and the Zulu than Mandela with South Africa, but wouldn't mind both in a future game as long as we get to like 70 civs.

the more civs the better, lol. There’s a lot of civ’s I’d like to see ahead of South Africa unless it’s replacing Zulu though.

A more thematic replacement for the Zulu would be the Swazi, as the swazi kingdom was a huge conquering nation in southern africa (it completely defeated the Rosvi Shona kingdom, for example).


But I’d like to see a whole ton of civ’s before South Africa if it isn’t being introduced to be a civ replacement for the Zulu—in just Africa, the Berbers, Morocco, Swazi, Swahili, Shona, Madagascar, Ndongo/Angola, Benin, Ashanti, Burkina Faso (I really want to see Thomas Sankara, lmao—if y’all want to meme in a civ again, let it be this one), even the Songhai or Ghana, even though those have geographical and some thematic overlap with Mali.

Outside of Africa, I’m a big fan of introducing the Guarani, Purépecha, Muisca, Argentina, Tlingit, Haida, Coast Salish, Navajo, Ireland, Burma, Champa, Chola, Mughals, Gupta, Rajputs, Kazakhs, Sogdia, Kushans, Ghaznavids, Timurids, Babylon, Assyria, Elam, Hittites, Armenia, Sapmi, Austria, Byzantines, Kievan Rus, Jurchen, Uzbeks, Malacca, Hawaii, Tonga and that Siberian civ @Zaarin was talking about the other day

that’s 46 more civs lol

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Yes Gran Colombia was designed to be the Spanish American civ with the hacienda improvement and the Llaneros as basically the gauchos of Colombia/Venezuela.

I would say Nigeria has had as much modern success as well, but I still would choose a pre-colonial group like the Kingdom of Benin if we had to represent Nigeria.

I was about to say Nigeria, but it doesn't rank very high on HDI and I am also in agreement that anything from that area would probably be Benin/Oyo/Ashanti/Hausa.

I’d much rather see the Shona than South Africa. It occupies a more geographically distinct position than South Africa and can go strong on trade and settlement.

That said I wouldn’t be opposed to South Africa replacing Zulu in future iterations of the game just for gameplay variance if we can’t have Cetshwayo to replace Shaka

I think if South Africa did show up the Zulu and Shaka still wouldn't go anywhere. They've appeared in every game including the spinoff Civ Rev and the sequel.

Yeah problem is no one leading the Shona or Zimbabwe is as iconic as Shaka. Civ would need to abandon the leader idea altogether for any civ other than South Africa to have a chance.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Yeah problem is no one leading the Shona or Zimbabwe is as iconic as Shaka. Civ would need to abandon the leader idea altogether for any civ other than South Africa to have a chance.

to be fair, a lot of leaders here were probably on the same level in terms of fame until they made it to civ. Mansa Musa Keita became a massive deal only after civ 4. No one had heard of Tamar or Lautaro outside of historical nerds but now everyone’s heard of them.

Civ makes an effort to make leaders just as knowledgeable as it uses already well-known leaders. Nyatsimba Mutota can become a well known leader after leading the Shona in civ anyway.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I would still like Argentina in the game tbh, Gran Colombia just represent the basic South/Latino american civ with the hacienda ( Its very non-specific to any country its like if we had an european civ with UI) and if the llaneros are just Gauchos that would get in the way, we have rough riders (basically the cowboy unit) and cowboys are usually group together with non native american horseriders so i think don't think its like imposible to see argentina, cuz it can also be a more modern latino civ and more culture base than the agressive Gran Colombia

Well I'd say it's more probable than Mexico. I doubt it will happen in the NFP though and would have to come in another season pass.
The gaucho could definitely still be used as the UU and they could get a unique infrastructure based around tango.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

to be fair, a lot of leaders here were probably on the same level in terms of fame until they made it to civ. Mansa Musa Keita became a massive deal only after civ 4. No one had heard of Tamar or Lautaro outside of historical nerds but now everyone’s heard of them.

Civ makes an effort to make leaders just as knowledgeable as it uses already well-known leaders. Nyatsimba Mutota can become a well known leader after leading the Shona in civ anyway.

Lol Mansa Musa was like the only African outside of Egypt mentioned in my world history textbook. While I agree some leaders, particularly in V and VI, are obscure, he's not a very good example imo.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Well I'd say it's more probable than Mexico. I doubt it will happen in the NFP though and would have to come in another season pass.
The gaucho could definitely still be used as the UU and they could get a unique infrastructure based around tango.

tango hall would be such a cool ui

i would use josé de san martin bcs the perons are ultra controversial and eva died too recently personally, but i wonder if he has too much overlap with Simon Bolivar

 

[Birch617]

I think either Eva or José are fine but i think Eva would be better to show more modern Latino Civ

 

[Xandinho]

tango hall would be such a cool ui

i would use josé de san martin bcs the perons are ultra controversial and eva died too recently personally, but i wonder if he has too much overlap with Simon Bolivar

Well, I'd say that Argentina doesn't overlap Gran Colombia any more than Canada and Australia overlap each other . Argentina has a more European culture while Gran Colombia has a more mixed Latin culture. And in gameplay they'd be quite distinct as well.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Well, I'd say that Argentina doesn't overlap Gran Colombia any more than Canada and Australia overlap each other . Argentina has a more European culture while Gran Colombia has a more mixed Latin culture. And in gameplay they'd be quite distinct as well.

i didn’t mean overlap between argentina and gran colombia, i meant overlap between Jose de san Martin and Simon Bolivar

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

i didn’t mean overlap between argentina and gran colombia, i meant overlap between Jose de san Martin and Simon Bolivar

Well he did just replace Simón Bolivar as a Great General so I believe there is overlap in that regard.
I honestly think Evita would be the best choice, even if she would be controversial, if they decide to go with them in Civ 6. That's a big if though in my opinion.

 

[Xandinho]

i didn’t mean overlap between argentina and gran colombia, i meant overlap between Jose de san Martin and Simon Bolivar

Oh, sorry. So yes, Jose de san Martin would undoubtedly be an overlap to Simon Bolivar. In fact, I feel that he can be somewhat overshadowed by Bolivar. I don't know how controversial Eva Peron is in Argentina, although I don't think Argentines would be upset with her as a leader. I think she would end up being the choice of Firaxis after all, not to mention that she is a remarkable modern female leader.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

tango hall would be such a cool ui

i would use josé de san martin bcs the perons are ultra controversial and eva died too recently personally, but i wonder if he has too much overlap with Simon Bolivar

I'm pretty sure it would be Eva or bust. The more a historical figure has appeared in western media, the more likely the devs will default to it purely for marketability. She's more well known worldwide even moreso than Bolivar thanks to Evita. And Eva wasn't a complete failure as a public figure; she pioneered women's suffrage, has a national holiday, etc., and I'm not sure to what extent Argentinians care about fascism or anti-Semitism when the vastly Catholic majority loves to create martyrs to rally around.

Now, do I want her in the game? Absolutely not. I think Lloyd Webber is vastly overrated. But I don't think Argentina is happening without Eva Peron. She's like the Gandhi of South America (ironic, when you'd think Bolivar should fit that role; and I'm extremely happy the devs went with him first).

 

[zhugejingqi]

In fact, I don't think there will be any other mainstream civilization in Latin America. This area is crowded enough and, in fact, well represented. In the game, the liberator of South America is more like a terrible conqueror. Is there really a good design in the real sense? It makes no sense to add another civilization that is very similar in appearance.

I'm pretty sure it would be Eva or bust. The more a historical figure has appeared in western media, the more likely the devs will default to it purely for marketability. She's more well known worldwide even moreso than Bolivar thanks to Evita. And Eva wasn't a complete failure as a public figure; she pioneered women's suffrage, has a national holiday, etc., and I'm not sure to what extent Argentinians care about fascism or anti-Semitism when the vastly Catholic majority loves to create martyrs to rally around.

Now, do I want her in the game? Absolutely not. I think Lloyd Webber is vastly overrated. But I don't think Argentina is happening without Eva Peron. She's like the Gandhi of South America (ironic, when you'd think Bolivar should fit that role; and I'm extremely happy the devs went with him first).

The problem with Argentina is that it has too much overlap with the civilizations that have emerged for games. Spain, Brazil, Mapuche, Colombia and Australia. In terms of gameplay, there is no need to add Argentina.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

This area is crowded enough and, in fact, well represented. In the game, the liberator of South America is more like a terrible conqueror. Is there really a good design in the real sense? It makes no sense to add another civilization that is very similar in appearance.

There’s a few notable inaccuracies in this comment. Namely, South America cpuld definitely use more civs. I’d prefer the Muisca and Guarani personally, since they’re native civs and are quite interesting, but Argentina would be fairly distinct from Gran Colombia since it’s more influenced by Europe. Likewise, Bolivar didn’t liberate all of South America, which makes him a fine leader option who also leaves Argentina open as a civ option. I hope Colombia and Bolivar return though, i think it’s a better option than bringing in a replacement for Colombia, especially as Bolivar remains a massive influence in modern Northern SA politics, especially in leftist circles.

Well he did just replace Simón Bolivar as a Great General so I believe there is overlap in that regard.
I honestly think Evita would be the best choice, even if she would be controversial, if they decide to go with them in Civ 6. That's a big if though in my opinion.

i was actually mistaken about when she died, she died in 1952, which is definitely long enough ago to put her in.


Argentina would be an interesting civ but it might be a bit redundant. Nonetheless, I’ve made options for Evita and Jose de San Martin:

Argentina — José de San Martin

CU: Refuge for the Fearing: If any foreign civs are at war, Argentinian cities gain +2 culture. Everytime a war declaration is started, every argentinian city gains +1 population.

UI: Tango Hall: Unique building that replaces the broadcast center, is available earlier and doesn’t require power. Has +1 extra great music slot compared to the broadcast center and gives the same amount of culture a broadcast center would without power.

UU: Gaucho: Unique UU replacing the cavalry. Has 2 builder charges. +5 combat strength on farms, plantations and pastures.

LA: Argentine Liberator: +10 combat strength to all units within Argentinian territory. +2 culture for every unit killed by an Argentinan unit within 10 tiles of Argentinian cities.

Evita Perón — LA: Descamisado Unión: Theatre Squares provide production equivalent to their Culture production

 

[PhoenicianGold]

In fact, I don't think there will be any other mainstream civilization in Latin America. This area is crowded enough and, in fact, well represented. In the game, the liberator of South America is more like a terrible conqueror. Is there really a good design in the real sense? It makes no sense to add another civilization that is very similar in appearance.

Yeah they really missed the mark flavorfully with GC. People generally think the movement bonus should have been limited to GC's home continent. And I personally think GC should have gotten a reconquest war bonus to make it more defensive. If we were going to have these dumb war categories, GC absolutely should have been the "reconquest" civ.

 

[Birch617]

Eva Peron is not like the Gandhi of South America, where did you get that (i could see it maybe in Argentina)