[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

Birch617 said:
Yeah i get that but still i think that Colombia has better things to show besides its interal guerrilla conflict; in the same way that Vietnam having a Vietcong unit its kinda reducing a culture/country to just guerrilla infested places of the third world imo
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But Vietnam often employes guerrilla warfare throughout its history, it’s not something which is only limited to the US - Vietnam war.
 
Zaarin said:
Yeah, that's kind of my point. There's not really anything special about a barmkin--it's a fortified manor, essentially, which is the very picture of Medieval Europe--but it's still better than a golf course. And it's also better than a broch, which wasn't built by the Scots.
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If you come to Scotland today and say you want to see a barmkin, people will look at you, and maybe guess it is some sort of bread. The term used is the tower house.

Myomoto said:
I liked the idea of the railway hotel as Canada's unique improvement. Could require having a railroad in or adjacent to the tile, and then give some boost to culture and tourism based on tile appeal/appeal of adjacent tiles.
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Well, I would like Sir John A Macdonald as an alternative leader for Canada. Special ability:

CANADIAN PACIFIC

All cities joined to the capital by a railway line are 100% loyal. Military engineers can build the railhead improvement on coastal tiles, which acts as a bridge between railheads otherwise separated by sea.
 
Abaxial said:
Well, I would like Sir John A Macdonald as an alternative leader for Canada. Special ability:

CANADIAN PACIFIC

All cities joined to the capital by a railway line are 100% loyal. Military engineers can build the railhead improvement on coastal tiles, which acts as a bridge between railheads otherwise separated by sea.
Click to expand...

-This is a really nice suggestion. Would it make sense for railways to do this more generally (maybe not 100% but a loyalty boost?).
 
Alexander's Hetaroi said:
Well the course was designed by the military to combat the guerillas by using the same warfare tactics. Besides guerilla is already a recon promotion in game, granting movement after attacking, so I thought it would be appropriate.
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I think unique buildings or units don't need to be specifically from the civilisation in the game, but can be a shared building that became a unique part of that civs culture and history. You can't separate haciendas from Colombian history, even if they're also part of Mexican and Argentinian history. Missions where uniquely used by the Spanish, but they were also established by the French in New France and the Portuguese and were invented by the wider Catholic Church to spread their religion, not specifically by the Spanish. Many countries have film studios, even France before or at the same time as the USA, but no one can deny that American Hollywood films where a unique cultural phenomenon in the 20th century. And the examples in game could go on and on. That's why I think that such "unique buildings" in-game are justified, even if they're shared historically with other nations.

Though I can see the Lancero used as an unique encampment for a Colombia Civ which also includes modern times, I think it would work better as a unique unit. Maybe as a unique building it could be something like "Lancero Academy" and just "Lancero" as a unique unit. (Fun fact: the Lanceros are actually based, at least in name, on the Llaneros who fought with lances during the independence war).

Even though Haciendas are more of a general Spanish-American building, they do form a huge part of the culture of Colombia, various districts and neighbourhoods in Bogotá (where I live) are actually named after and cover the same territories as former haciendas, conserving the colonial building on the middle. Haciendas were also quite common in Colombia and are heavily regarded as something that's part of the landscape and culture of rural regions and they even became the foundational spot of larger towns and even cities in the 19th century. Moreover, haciendas had variations throughout Latin America and, even though the concept and the name was the same, Mexican, Colombian and Argentinian haciendas have differences that make them stand out, such as architectural features and the type of labour and products they produced. Mexican haciendas are more colourful, while Colombian haciendas are a bit more similar to some Andalusian houses and towns, especially around cities such as Granada and Còrdoba.

However, if there had to be a unique building that's more specific to (Gran) Colombia, I would say that the best choice would be something related to coffee production and the expansion the country had because of this.

It could be a Fonda, or Fonda Paisa, which was like a border outpost or place where settlers from the interior of the country could rest, gather and store resources during the colonisation of parts of the country that hadn't been settled in the 19th century, after the independence. This Fondas where used to colonise the areas that could be suitable for coffee production and would form the basis of coffee haciendas, towns and major cities which formed around coffee production decades after the Spanish had left and in areas that had not been colonised by them before. Even traditional music and songs from the late 19th century revolved around some of these places.

Though the word fonda exists also throughout Spanish-America, meaning just a tavern, in Colombia they became outpost that extended the settlement of the nation into lands unknown to the Spanish in search for suitable land for coffee production as well as other resources, forming a particular cultural identity around it, especially in regions such as Medellín. It can be an unique improvement that extracts resources that are far away from cities and somehow produce culture, gold or could eventually become a normal city.

Another unique building could be Plaza de Bolívar, which is the main square in Bogotá where the Congress, Cathedral, Supreme Court and Townhall are located, all surrounding a statue of Simón Bolívar. Various cities and towns around Colombia and Venezuela (Such as Caracas, Cartagena, Medellín, etc) began copying this in the 19th century and made their own central squares in the cities, also with a statue of Simón Bolívar in the middle and important buildings around it. It could work as a unique monument or as a unique government district that increases loyalty or that generates culture or something, I don't know.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. Even though haciendas aren't only from (Gran) Colombia, they did form a huge part of their culture, so I wouldn't be opposed to having them as their unique building. It did, in part, generate in the country in colonial times as it did in the rest of Spanish America and is a shared heritage with other Latin American influenced areas, all the way up from California to Argentina and, as of now, Gran Colombia in the game seem to attempt to represent or appeal to Spanish America as a whole, so the hacienda still is appropriate.

Henri Christophe said:
Hacienda remember me Pablo Escobar's Hacienda.
Click to expand...

That's not a very accurate, sensitive or appropriate comment, to be honest. That's like saying that Germany's unique industrial district reminds me of a Concentration Camp, absolute nonsense and out of place comment
 
TreVor_ish said:
But, Hansa don't look nor is named like one. Hacienda Napoles was Escobar's mansion...
Click to expand...

Yeah, but it was just an Hacienda in name, nothing to do with the actual Haciendas that existed in the 19th century and before, it was just another attempt by Pablo Escobar to claim he had some power, his house had little to do with the cultural and economic activities behind the idea of an Hacienda.

I do know that Germany's unique district is related to the Hanseatic League, my point is not that it looks like a concentration camp, which actually kind of does if you look at some of the buildings in Dachau literally design as factories for masive killing.

My point is that it can be a bit tiring and offensive to relate a building that is important to the culture of a nation or people almost exclusively to the bad and negative actions that a single individual of that place did in the past. It totally disregards the culture, identity and history of the actual buildings.

And trust me, Escobar's house is extremely removed from the real architectural typology of a Hispanic Hacienda, as well as it's use and cultural context. The fact that his megalomaniac ego made him refer to it as an Hacienda doesn't mean that it actually was one
 
untitledjuan said:
I think unique buildings or units don't need to be specifically from the civilisation in the game, but can be a shared building that became a unique part of that civs culture and history. You can't separate haciendas from Colombian history, even if they're also part of Mexican and Argentinian history. Missions where uniquely used by the Spanish, but they were also established by the French in New France and the Portuguese and were invented by the wider Catholic Church to spread their religion, not specifically by the Spanish. Many countries have film studios, even France before or at the same time as the USA, but no one can deny that American Hollywood films where a unique cultural phenomenon in the 20th century. And the examples in game could go on and on. That's why I think that such "unique buildings" in-game are justified, even if they're shared historically with other nations.

Though I can see the Lancero used as an unique encampment for a Colombia Civ which also includes modern times, I think it would work better as a unique unit. Maybe as a unique building it could be something like "Lancero Academy" and just "Lancero" as a unique unit. (Fun fact: the Lanceros are actually based, at least in name, on the Llaneros who fought with lances during the independence war).

Even though Haciendas are more of a general Spanish-American building, they do form a huge part of the culture of Colombia, various districts and neighbourhoods in Bogotá (where I live) are actually named after and cover the same territories as former haciendas, conserving the colonial building on the middle. Haciendas were also quite common in Colombia and are heavily regarded as something that's part of the landscape and culture of rural regions and they even became the foundational spot of larger towns and even cities in the 19th century. Moreover, haciendas had variations throughout Latin America and, even though the concept and the name was the same, Mexican, Colombian and Argentinian haciendas have differences that make them stand out, such as architectural features and the type of labour and products they produced. Mexican haciendas are more colourful, while Colombian haciendas are a bit more similar to some Andalusian houses and towns, especially around cities such as Granada and Còrdoba.

However, if there had to be a unique building that's more specific to (Gran) Colombia, I would say that the best choice would be something related to coffee production and the expansion the country had because of this.

It could be a Fonda, or Fonda Paisa, which was like a border outpost or place where settlers from the interior of the country could rest, gather and store resources during the colonisation of parts of the country that hadn't been settled in the 19th century, after the independence. This Fondas where used to colonise the areas that could be suitable for coffee production and would form the basis of coffee haciendas, towns and major cities which formed around coffee production decades after the Spanish had left and in areas that had not been colonised by them before. Even traditional music and songs from the late 19th century revolved around some of these places.

Though the word fonda exists also throughout Spanish-America, meaning just a tavern, in Colombia they became outpost that extended the settlement of the nation into lands unknown to the Spanish in search for suitable land for coffee production as well as other resources, forming a particular cultural identity around it, especially in regions such as Medellín. It can be an unique improvement that extracts resources that are far away from cities and somehow produce culture, gold or could eventually become a normal city.

Another unique building could be Plaza de Bolívar, which is the main square in Bogotá where the Congress, Cathedral, Supreme Court and Townhall are located, all surrounding a statue of Simón Bolívar. Various cities and towns around Colombia and Venezuela (Such as Caracas, Cartagena, Medellín, etc) began copying this in the 19th century and made their own central squares in the cities, also with a statue of Simón Bolívar in the middle and important buildings around it. It could work as a unique monument or as a unique government district that increases loyalty or that generates culture or something, I don't know.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. Even though haciendas aren't only from (Gran) Colombia, they did form a huge part of their culture, so I wouldn't be opposed to having them as their unique building. It did, in part, generate in the country in colonial times as it did in the rest of Spanish America and is a shared heritage with other Latin American influenced areas, all the way up from California to Argentina and, as of now, Gran Colombia in the game seem to attempt to represent or appeal to Spanish America as a whole, so the hacienda still is appropriate.
Click to expand...

I agree with your point.I think what they try to do in Civ is to add the bonus and especial features according to actual stereotypes.


France has "Chateaus" even though all civs have more or less fortifications, Germany is based on the industrial/river stereotype, USA has cinema studios, UK pirates, Spain inquisitors, Aztecs "slaves", Japan factories and so on...
All of these features can be identify with many other civs, but they are added to the one that "fulfil" the stereotype the better.


The main problem I see with this is when they add Civs that are “new” in the timeline and have not yet made their own stereotypes.
For example, the Haciendas, as you say, are very stereotypical of the "hispanic" world but it is hard to identify them to an specific actual country (they were and are present in almost every Hispanic country). They can add them to Gran Colombia, but the same is true for an actual Mexican civ, or a Venezuelan, Cuban or Spanish one. Is a stereotype of the Spanish Empire, but not unique to any of the actual countries that emerged from it.
Therefore, you have to think on stereotypes that suit the actual perception of the Civ and I find that very difficult.
I mean, Gran Colombia is rather new and was a thing for a very brief period in time, so to give them a "unique" building, they had to take a “non unique” one from the Hispanic world. The same for the bonuses, they gave them fast movement, but the same could be given to a Civ commanded by San Martin or a German of WWII.


Is for this reason that I disliked Gran Colombia as a concept. I consider better to add “modern” versions of Latin American countries. With “modern”, I mean versions closer to nowadays.
Better actual Colombia that Gran Colombia as you can play with the actual stereotypes of coffee producers that had been state before.

Cuba is a good example of my point; it makes no sense to add Cuba during Tomás Estrada presidency, as it would be the same civilization as Spain in 1898, so is far better to add Cuba during the Cold War. This way you have stereotypes "unique" to it like the ones Tropico games are based on (I know a lot of Caribbean Island have similar stereotypes, but Cuba is the central one).

The contra example would be Brazil, but they added modern stereotypes to them like the Copacabana and the Street Carnival (you can find many countries that do similar carnivals, but Brazilians have the most famous, therefore stereotypical one). The same goes for the “rainforest” tiles bonus. It would clash with other South Americans countries as they have a big chunk of land in the Amazonas, but not as much as Brazil, so it makes sense to give them the stereotype=bonus.
 
Moderator Action: Deleted multiple off-topic posts rambling on about horses. New civs, folks, new civs. Other off-topic posts will be deleted, and repeat offenders may get infractions and/or thread bans.
 
Birch617 said:
Yeah i agree that Haciendas aren't unique to Colombia ( i had a typo on my first statement) but like i said its okay that it was choosen for Gran Colombia because the civ is more of Latin American Indepence civ rather than an specific civ (only the Llanero and the leader are the only Colombo-Venezuelan thing, while the Comandantes Generales do represent historical figures for multiple nothern South American countries) and its fine, because in my eyes, it open possibilities for other Latino civs that don't need to be necessary indenpendece theme/ gameplay style; like a cultural modern Argentina, religious Mexico and maybe naval focus Chile.
Yeah and for an hypothetical Colombian civ my take would be more of an agricultural civ that gets tourism for it, my idea of Coffee Growin Axis comes from this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombian_coffee_growing_axis
Click to expand...
I actually was under the impression that the generic hacienda was signifying that we most likely wouldn't get any more Spanish speaking Latino civs.
That's the same impression that I got with Khmer and the Prasat, considering Prasats are found all over mainland SEA. Though apparently we're getting Vietnam but that's a different story because those aren't built there.
Though I do agree that Argentina could get something like the tango hall but at the same time a Gaucho UU would be very similar to a Llanero. And I can't see Argentina with being released with another UU. :p

untitledjuan said:
Though I can see the Lancero used as an unique encampment for a Colombia Civ which also includes modern times, I think it would work better as a unique unit. Maybe as a unique building it could be something like "Lancero Academy" and just "Lancero" as a unique unit. (Fun fact: the Lanceros are actually based, at least in name, on the Llaneros who fought with lances during the independence war).
Click to expand...
Yeah my idea was always the Llaneros as a UU while the Lancero would be a UB so they wouldn't have the same name.

untitledjuan said:
Anyway, sorry for the long post. Even though haciendas aren't only from (Gran) Colombia, they did form a huge part of their culture, so I wouldn't be opposed to having them as their unique building. It did, in part, generate in the country in colonial times as it did in the rest of Spanish America and is a shared heritage with other Latin American influenced areas, all the way up from California to Argentina and, as of now, Gran Colombia in the game seem to attempt to represent or appeal to Spanish America as a whole, so the hacienda still is appropriate.
Click to expand...
I have no problem with the Hacienda being their unique and I agree with all of this. It's just one that never crossed my mind when designing a hypothetical (Gran) Colombia civ before they were announced.
 
Inhalaattori said:
No. It seems that we will get the new video next Monday 18th of January and we will get the next DLC 28th of January.
Click to expand...
Pistol90 said:
Should we expect video announcment today or tomorrow?
Click to expand...
It's possible it could be on the 19th, given that the developers skipped the upload video on Columbus Day and moved it to the day after.
 
Kupe Navigator said:
sad that I live in Korea... it means the announcement video will be released day AFTER America... stupid time zone. :undecide:
Click to expand...
R.I.P. Wait... That means when the thread for the update comes out, you can watch the video there...
 
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