[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[AsH2]

But how do you know Ca kinh wasn't applied to orcas much later? Would she even be aware of them?

So we're getting a Latvia civ?
(Jokes aside, I doubt there are any Orcas in Baltic Sea..)

Spoiler Yet again, wiki proves me right.. :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whale#/media/File:Cypron-Range_Orcinus_orca.svg
A world map shows killer whales are found throughout every ocean, except parts of the Arctic. They are also absent from the Black and Baltic seas.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

I'm just sad that now, the Philippines aren't getting in. RIP, Philippines...

 

[Jeppetto]

Reading this thread, I must say this is quite the telephone game we are witnessing here. From a 250 CE insurgent about which we naturally have limited primary sources, to a 1900 CE booklet on local sights that attributed to her a few words like 扫清海宇 "to sweep clean the realm within the seas", which then got translated into "clean up our frontiers", somehow became a blunt "chase away the Wu army", and finally "Drive Out the Aggressors".

All through the misinformation train, from academics to writers' room wordsmiths, nobody actually cared about veracity of the knowledge or the context of its creation; all they wanted is BADASS QUOTES.

Basically, she was just ordering new sofa shaped like whale to her seaside mansion, specifically not desiring the workers who brought it last time as they aggresively damaged it on the way, but it got lost in translation. No wonder she looks so angry in the animations, she still wants the sofa.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Hey, guys! I found something they could use for Civ 7 Leaders! If they have the budget...

 

[cain3456]

If Firaxis can separate Macedonia from Greece, then there is no reason for them to keep conflating Germany with the Holy Roman Empire. They are separate entities and should be in the game as such.

 

[Zaarin]

If Firaxis can separate Macedonia from Greece, then there is no reason for them to keep conflating Germany with the Holy Roman Empire. They are separate entities and should be in the game as such.

Very strongly disagree. HRE is German; there's no need for a separate HRE civ. Also, while even adding Macedon was controversial (too. many. Hellenes), thankfully the devs have not yet added Macedonia (i.e., FYROM), to be pedantic.

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

. Probably need to check with @Andrew Johnson [FXS] as I am sure he can read Chữ Nôm..

Andrew reads academic writing on Vietnamese history and anthropology (his favorites are Erik Harms, John Phan, Claudine Ang, Keith Taylor, Paul Taylor) but does not claim to be able to read original material in Nom, or even modern Vietnamese. He reads Thai and Lao ("read" here meaning "doesn't need a dictionary and can read for pleasure) and can muddle through Lanna and Burmese (along with Japanese, French, Finnish). But Nom? No, unfortunately.

I was aware, though, of almost all of the dimensions of what "whale / orca / shark" might mean here when looking into Trieu. Of course, could all this be fixed with just saying "vast beasts of the eastern sea?" Also, incidentally, Ivan Small has written on modern-day whale worship in Vietnam, and its new connections with overseas Vietnamese communities!

 

[Birch617]

If Firaxis can separate Macedonia from Greece, then there is no reason for them to keep conflating Germany with the Holy Roman Empire. They are separate entities and should be in the game as such.

I think Austria and Prussia are better "Split" civs for the Germans imo

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

If Firaxis can separate Macedonia from Greece, then there is no reason for them to keep conflating Germany with the Holy Roman Empire. They are separate entities and should be in the game as such.

That's what Civ 4 was for.

 

[SMcM]

If so, those whales are far from home... and I'm pretty sure she said sharks, not whales.

It said whales on the video iirc and says orcas on Wikipedia, so I don't think I'm being stupid

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

It said whales on the video iirc and says orcas on Wikipedia, so I don't think I'm being stupid

I saw it too. It seems to be translation issues as the quote mentions sharks and whales in other sources.
Plus I think it was edited not long ago and of course anybody can edit Wikipedia and mess with our brains.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

It said whales on the video iirc and says orcas on Wikipedia, so I don't think I'm being stupid

Apologies. I should have done my research first, although as many others have stated it could have referenced things other than sharks.

 

[Morningcalm]

When do we expect Kublai Khan's first look, the developer stream, and pack release? We are in the last week of January here.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

When do we expect Kublai Khan's first look, the developer stream, and pack release? We are in the last week of January here.

Tomorrow should be the first look.

Developer stream should be Wed.

Pack releases Jan 28 on Thursday.

 

[SMcM]

Apologies. I should have done my research first, although as many others have stated it could have referenced things other than sharks.

I'm not sure what you even mean tbh- what have sharks even got to do with anything? I have missed whatever others have said, just came back onto the forum for the first time since I posted that to get a notification for you message, and wanted to respond since it made me look stupid.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'm not sure what you even mean tbh- what have sharks even got to do with anything? I have missed whatever others have said, just came back onto the forum for the first time since I posted that to get a notification for you message, and wanted to respond since it made me look stupid.

A couple of days ago it said sharks instead of orcas on her Wikipedia page.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

A couple of days ago it said sharks instead of orcas on her Wikipedia page.

Yeah, I remember sharks on the quote instead of whales... I wonder what happened.

I'm not sure what you even mean tbh- what have sharks even got to do with anything? I have missed whatever others have said, just came back onto the forum for the first time since I posted that to get a notification for you message, and wanted to respond since it made me look stupid.

If I made you look stupid, I apologize and didn't mean to do so.

 

[SMcM]

Sorry not trying to be accusatory, just mean I wanted to defend myself when I looked a bit ignorant initially. And idk what is up with that Wikipedia page being changed

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

I'm pretty sure Lady Triệu meant orca aka killer whale in her quote. "Cá kình" truly means "orca" in Vietnamese: Cá kình – Wikipedia tiếng Việt

Another evidence which proves that approach is the fact that Vietnamese is the only one among nations all over the world which has consistently worshipped whales. So Lady Trieu said that she wanted to kill orca/killer whale/shark, not whale.

You can simply google "whale worship" to see for yourself.

Does Vietnam even have orcas? I think "ca' kinh`" just means whales.

But Nom? No, unfortunately.

*I can't read these words so I marked them as □. They are probably obscure forms of Chinese characters, or even Chữ Nôm, which I don't have any knowledge of. Probably need to check with @Andrew Johnson [FXS] as I am sure he can read Chữ Nôm.

No one can read Chữ Nôm. It is one of the Vietnamese "inventions" in the past so they could tell themselves "Hey, we don't have to use Chinese to write things down anymore!", but like, bro, you technically still use it. It is a mashed-up version of Chinese characters so complicated that literature in it is not even that frequent. Having to learn it and pass it down proves incredibly difficult. I have a Vietnamese friend who is fluent in Mandarin trying to go back to Nom trying to "decipher" what the characters mean, and she said the characters felt like they were invented to just to keep the literacy rate purposefully low, cuz the only people who were fluent in Nom back then had to be fluent in Mandarin first, which, once again, defeated its purpose.

On a different note, as I pointed out before, we still haven't had a naval civ for NFP, which I think we are guaranteed to have. I am fine with Portugal if they have the Feitoria as the replacement for the Shipyard. So far, the Harbor is the only core specialty district without a unique building.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

On a different note, as I pointed out before, we still haven't had a naval civ for NFP, which I think we are guaranteed to have. I am fine with Portugal if they have the Feitoria as the replacement for the Shipyard. So far, the Harbor is the only core specialty district without a unique building.

I mean it's not Civilization without a Caravel replacement for Portugal.

Not sure about a Feitoria being a shipyard replacement though. Could be interesting. I'm still more inclined that they will get a unique improvement that can be built in neutral territory, maybe needing to be adjacent to a luxury resource, and bring yields back to the capital.