[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

Well why have dual leader tool and use it only four times.

Honestly, this is one of the main reasons why I think there is more Civ6 coming. An expansion focused on alt leaders seems like the perfect thing to end Civ6 with, revisit all of the old civs with a new twist.
 
Honestly, this is one of the main reasons why I think there is more Civ6 coming. An expansion focused on alt leaders seems like the perfect thing to end Civ6 with, revisit all of the old civs with a new twist.

They've clarified that the alternate leader mechanic was chiefly for modders to make use of. Additionally, an alternate leader requires a lot of work to make (modeling, voice acting, animating) but makes up only 25% of the gameplay content of a new civ...They just aren't an attractive package for me as a player to buy (I'd rather have an entirely new civ any day), and I imagine others would feel similarly.

I agree with @Zaarin that NFP is the last paid Civ 6 content we're gonna see.
 
I'd say there's a pretty good argument (if one wanted to make one) for balkanizing France...though I'd pick Brittany or Normandy over Aquitaine to be the one to do it. That being said, I don't think France is in urgent need of balkanization. :p

Technically it already happened if we consider Gaul representing the Gallic Empire, even if it is represented by a Germanic tribe, led by a Belgian folk hero, and with Latin uniques.

They've clarified that the alternate leader mechanic was chiefly for modders to make use of. Additionally, an alternate leader requires a lot of work to make (modeling, voice acting, animating) but makes up only 25% of the gameplay content of a new civ...They just aren't an attractive package for me as a player to buy (I'd rather have an entirely new civ any day), and I imagine others would feel similarly.

I agree with @Zaarin that NFP is the last paid Civ 6 content we're gonna see.

Given that we still do not have a Vienna, Copenhagen, or Assur/Ninevah city-state, I do not think this is the end of paid Civ 6 content. That doesn't necessarily mean we will see new civs, it might just be small stuff like city-state packs.

But then when you open up discussion about a city-state pack, we see things like Egypt, Arabia, and Russia begging for alternate leaders; former civs like Morocco, Venice, and Shoshone lacking "equivalents" in VI (something which the series has almost never done in prior installments); some pretty huge unmet requests like the Navajo/Apache/Cherokee/PNW Tribe, Bulgaria, something Maghrebi/Guinean/Swahili...and then the slope is really as slippery as the developers want it to be.
 
Technically it already happened if we consider Gaul representing the Gallic Empire, even if it is represented by a Germanic tribe, led by a Belgian folk hero, and with Latin uniques.
Eh, geographical overlap doesn't make it the same civilization, otherwise Teddy Roosevelt should be leading the Iroquois. Even calling Francia France is a stretch, and by the time Francia rolled around there was virtually no trace left of the Gauls. Gaul was never part of France so it can't really said to be balkanized from France, unlike Aquitaine, Brittany, Normandy, Burgandy, etc.--any one of which could be made into a civ if someone really wanted to but are also just fine under the French banner.

it might just be small stuff like city-state packs.
I bet that will sell well. :p
 
Split Civs like Macedon, Nubia, and Scotland are considered offshoots and are a separate beast from other Civs. I will note that these Split Civs (as well as alternate Leaders & Personas) ONLY come from Gen 1 Staples. Holy Roman Empire is also split (& merged) from Germany. So there is no guarantee that they won’t simply be merged back into their parent Civ in future games. I could see them being represented as Alternate Leaders in the future.

So far, no slanted Civs come from a completely different region. Georgia and the Mapuche follow this pattern, unless we can tinfoil hat Georgia filling the slot of Morocco or Venice, there is no patterned evidence that the Mapuche are a substitute for the Shoshone.

The pattern *so far* would suggest that we get 1 entirely New Civ with a female Leader.

Please keep in mind that I am merely reconstructing whatever sort of outline and plans they came up with at Firaxis HQ through observation.

(My personal guess is *based off of* the pattern we’ve seen: a female Leader filling in the Shoshone’s slot from a new Civ: the Apache being a suspect Civ — seeing as they were important enough to be featured in Civ IV: Colonization, Lozen being a great Leader choice: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lozen)
I didn't realize Macedon and Scotland wasn't on the chart either. That being said I'm not quite sure I'd call Nubia an offshoot of I presume Egypt, like the others. At least I don't see any attributes of Egypt from past games getting put into Nubia unlike Scotland, whose cities have been Celtic city names, and Macedon, who obviously had the leader for Greece the past 5 games. Though I could be wrong and Egypt has had Nubian cities in the past. :crazyeye:

That being said you could possibly make the argument that Nubia could be a "replacement" for Morocco. Of course it would somewhat be a stretch like the Shoshone and the Mapuche,. Both are located in North Africa and deal with gold/desert playstyle. At least it makes more sense than Georgia. :p

I'm still not 100% convinced until we see who the civ is in March though.

Firaxis has been pretty consistent with the areas of the world they have represented with NFP, with clear distinction with the duel releases.
-Maya/Gran Columbia: North(/Central) America and indigenous vs South American and European
-Gaul/Byzantium: Western Europe vs Eastern Europe (and "barbarian" vs "civilized" if you want to read it that way or maybe "decentralized" vs "centralized").
-Vietnam/Kublai: South Asia vs North Asia (don't know enough about Asian history if there is another distinction in there)

The Pacific/Oceania is the only major world area not in the NFP and the Americas are already well represented. Portugal would break the neat 4/4 that would be created by releasing a new civ as well. I think Portugal might be a reasonable pick if the NFP was the end of Civ6 but we don't know if NFP is the end and I think the rebalances that are coming in April are reasonable enough evidence of more Civ6 coming eventually.
If we want the Pacific represented why don't we go with the Haida/Tlingit which would kill two birds with one stone being Pacific Coast/North America? :mischief:

They even said on the Maori livestream that they looked over all the different Polynesian cultures and decided that the Maori would be the best group, out of all of them, to be in the game. That's why I'm not expecting any others from Oceania.

Given that we still do not have a Vienna, Copenhagen, or Assur/Ninevah city-state, I do not think this is the end of paid Civ 6 content. That doesn't necessarily mean we will see new civs, it might just be small stuff like city-state packs.
I don't know if that really matters to anyone else in the long run.
 
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Where did they say that?

In one of the glut of the pre-release interviews the devs did for the game. Can't locate which one precisely.

Given that we still do not have a Vienna, Copenhagen, or Assur/Ninevah city-state, I do not think this is the end of paid Civ 6 content. That doesn't necessarily mean we will see new civs, it might just be small stuff like city-state packs.

But then when you open up discussion about a city-state pack, we see things like Egypt, Arabia, and Russia begging for alternate leaders; former civs like Morocco, Venice, and Shoshone lacking "equivalents" in VI (something which the series has almost never done in prior installments); some pretty huge unmet requests like the Navajo/Apache/Cherokee/PNW Tribe, Bulgaria, something Maghrebi/Guinean/Swahili...and then the slope is really as slippery as the developers want it to be.

Well you're talking about missing content as rationale for continuing more content, but I think that's a tricky road to go into. Really, there is no way they'll satisfy the entire fanbase to the point where no one thinks "oh so-and-so is missing!" - so I'm not really moved by that sort of argument. Even if Portugal doesn't come in March I won't be convinced that there'll be more content. Of course, I could be wrong, but I think it's fallacious to think that Firaxis has some spreadsheet set-up and that there are all these civ or city-state buckets that HAVE to be filled for the game to be complete. Also, I cannot see a city-state pack being something they'd put up for sale. The Vikings DLC is among the worst-reviewed DLC - regular fans just don't want to pay for that stuff.

My reasoning on why NFP is probably the end is this:

It seems clear to me that NFP has been a challenge for the team. It started right as the pandemic began and for whatever reason, they've had to cut corners on essentially everything except for the music. Those on this forum know that I am a generous defender of the devs to the disgruntled or whining contingent here, but let's be honest with ourselves: NFP lacks polish. It's been rough. I am appreciative of the NFP, but the bittersweet thing about all the content we've gotten is that it would have looked better and played better if it were released earlier in the game's development cycle when the full team was focused on the game. So with all that said, I can't really see them continuing down this path much longer.
 
They even said on the Maori livestream that they looked over all the different Polynesian cultures and decided that the Maori would be the best fit to be in the game. That's why I'm not expecting any others from Oceania.

How long was that and they can always change their minds later.

former civs like Morocco, Venice, and Shoshone lacking "equivalents" in VI

There are actually enough civs from Civ5 that didn't make it into Civ6 do a whole expansion with. Plus, if the leader for Austria is also an alt leader for Hungary you can perfectly match the 8 civs plus one alt leader for an existing civ that is used in all of the expansions so far.

It seems clear to me that NFP has been a challenge for the team. It started right as the pandemic began and for whatever reason, they've had to cut corners on essentially everything except for the music. Those on this forum know that I am a generous defender of the devs to the disgruntled or whining contingent here, but let's be honest with ourselves: NFP lacks polish. It's been rough. I am appreciative of the NFP, but the bittersweet thing about all the content we've gotten is that it would have looked better and played better if it were released earlier in the game's development cycle when the full team was focused on the game. So with all that said, I can't really see them continuing down this path much longer.

To me the problems with the NFP has to do with the release cycle and covid which can easily be worked around or avoid for any future releases and nothing to do with focus of the dev team or whatnot. The fundamental problem with NFP is the monthly releases and therefore can be avoided in the future.

They just aren't an attractive package for me as a player to buy (I'd rather have an entirely new civ any day), and I imagine others would feel similarly.

That's why I think it would work well as the last bit of Civ6, there if you want it, skippable if you don't.

In one of the glut of the pre-release interviews the devs did for the game. Can't locate which one precisely.

Thanks.
 
How long was that and they can always change their minds later.
I'm pretty sure it was the winter of 2018.
If the Maori weren't designed as a mostly generic Polynesia civ I'd be more inclined to think that there was a possibility of get something else from Oceania.

I mean they start the game in the ocean and can traverse it at the start of the game. :p
 
If the Maori weren't designed as a mostly generic Polynesia civ I'd be more inclined to think that there was a possibility of get something else from Oceania.

Aboriginal Australians seem like an obvious non-Polynesian civ.
 
Eh, geographical overlap doesn't make it the same civilization, otherwise Teddy Roosevelt should be leading the Iroquois. Even calling Francia France is a stretch, and by the time Francia rolled around there was virtually no trace left of the Gauls. Gaul was never part of France so it can't really said to be balkanized from France, unlike Aquitaine, Brittany, Normandy, Burgandy, etc.--any one of which could be made into a civ if someone really wanted to but are also just fine under the French banner.

I was half-joking. Though I do think the fact that there was a short-lived Gallic empire--totally separate from the Belgiae--helped Gaul's chances for inclusion considerably over other Celtic regions.

Well you're talking about missing content as rationale for continuing more content, but I think that's a tricky road to go into. Really, there is no way they'll satisfy the entire fanbase to the point where no one thinks "oh so-and-so is missing!" - so I'm not really moved by that sort of argument. Even if Portugal doesn't come in March I won't be convinced that there'll be more content. Of course, I could be wrong, but I think it's fallacious to think that Firaxis has some spreadsheet set-up and that there are all these civ or city-state buckets that HAVE to be filled for the game to be complete. Also, I cannot see a city-state pack being something they'd put up for sale. The Vikings DLC is among the worst-reviewed DLC - regular fans just don't want to pay for that stuff.

We might claim that "so-and-so is missing" is irrelevant, and yet the devs were still compelled to include the Maya, Babylon, and Byzantium in NFP. There is definitely pressure on the developers to return staples, even if it is just token representation through city-states ala Fez, Venice, Ayutthaya. And it's not really the amount of representation, so much as whether former fan favorites like Austria and Assyria aren't represented in VI at all. That feels like something, especially after seeing the line-up for NFP, that the developers would be hyper-conscious of. We could have gotten Vienna/Assur instead of Ayutthaya/Wolin (and planned to replace Lisbon with Copenhagen) and the game would have felt just a hair more complete; it feels like there's a reason why they didn't go with the obvious fanservice city-states.

It seems clear to me that NFP has been a challenge for the team. It started right as the pandemic began and for whatever reason, they've had to cut corners on essentially everything except for the music. Those on this forum know that I am a generous defender of the devs to the disgruntled or whining contingent here, but let's be honest with ourselves: NFP lacks polish. It's been rough. I am appreciative of the NFP, but the bittersweet thing about all the content we've gotten is that it would have looked better and played better if it were released earlier in the game's development cycle when the full team was focused on the game. So with all that said, I can't really see them continuing down this path much longer.

This is a very strong counterargument. But the fact is that:

(a) We are still in the middle of a pandemic. Things might marginally improve this year, but the developers could still be seeing many of the same difficulties for months out. Sustaining revenue with something less strenuous like Civ VI DLC content might be the better model for them than trying to operate at full force to put out a new title.

(b) NFP still sold, polished or not. It's still better than what modders can do without the DLL and professional musicians/voice actors, and it still served its purpose as late-cycle content that likely turned a modest profit.

I can't know either way, but a second season pass, milking the properties they have during lean times where they can't get new product out, might just be the reasonable thing to do until everything stabilizes.
 
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I can't know either way, but a second season pass, milking the properties they have during lean times where they can't get new product out, might just be the reasonable thing to do until everything stabilizes.

I feel another monthly or bimonthly pass would be a bad idea unless it just focused on new civs and leaders as they seem to be the only thing fully works in each release. There are so many bug patches in every update and it's clear the dev team does not have enough time or resources to get every thing working correctly, especially on consoles. Again, I think this is definitely covid combining with an overly ambitious release schedule that Firaxis should not have attempted during the pandemic.
 
The continental Americas were already covered by the first release and I feel like Liliuokalani and Hawaii would be an obvious choice then if the new civ and female leader pattern holds up.

I'd absolutely love it if Hawaii was the final civ, but, and this may be a hot take, I wouldn't be a fan of Liliuokalani as a leader, especially over Kamehameha.
 
I'd absolutely love it if Hawaii was the final civ, but, and this may be a hot take, I wouldn't be a fan of Liliuokalani as a leader, especially over Kamehameha.
Indeed. Kamehameha was a mad lad, hands down.
 
I'd absolutely love it if Hawaii was the final civ, but, and this may be a hot take, I wouldn't be a fan of Liliuokalani as a leader, especially over Kamehameha.

In a weird, dumb way, Hawaii would satisfy several fan requests at once:

a) Polynesian civ - second largest Polynesian population behind the Maori.
b) Western native US civ - as far west as you can go.
c) Pacific coast native civ - it's literally all Pacific coastline.
 
Well why have dual leader tool and use it only four times.

IIRC Firaxis have explicitly said that was more something that they expected modders to make use of rather than they themselves.
 
I would like a Philippines Civ (what could be their bonueses?).
in worst case sceneario, I think they could be a fantastic commercial city state (Manila).

great people-churner, culture/religious civ capitalizing on disasters. the seafaring ability will just be a bonus. Im still not letting my hopes down for a Philippine Civ. We got a good share of potential female leaders

and btw “Austronesian” is more of a linguistic grouping rather than a culture grouping.
we’re basically more Asiatic as in maritime SE Asia.
 
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