[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[8housesofelixir]

give me a civ with an ability to do a city project that generates diplomatic favor not having to rely on emergencies or whatever

Every civ can do Carbon Recapture project which generates +30 favor per completion. Of course the cultural civs will be more good at that.

In addition, America, Sweden, and Canada all have the ability to generate a small amount of favor by their own - America by Wildcard slots, Sweden by recruit GP, Canada by tourism.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

possible only doing that when a leader they have already decided on fits 2 civs, but not going out of their way to achieve that.

What exactly does "going out of their way" mean in this situation? A leader can either lead multiple civs or they cannot.

You say I need to 'brace' myself for 1 alt leader each pack (perhaps that is an inevitability, I wouldn't know), but I do not see the harm in me expressing my disinterest in that, maybe someone in Firaxis will read these forums and notice people expressing preferences on this. I know this particular thread is significantly about speculation, but I don't see why I can't talk about what I think they should do as well.

Literally no one is trying to stop you from stating what you want, you have a keyboard, a pc and internet connection, it is a free world, you do whatever you want with it. The thing is you're not the first person to state that alt leaders are generally more unfavorably received compared to brand new civs, and I am trying to suggest a leeway to compensate both sides of the argument: having a new civ/new leader while at the same making that leader an alt leader of an existing civ. Simply saying "I don't want an alt leader thus they shouldn't bother with it," one, adds nothing new to the conversation, we all dislike alt leaders, you're not the unique one here, just simply read the comments on Kublai Khan's thread, and two, instead of coming up with an idea that may make people on both sides of the argument a bit happier, you suggested an impossibility as if Firaxis would admit they waste the potential of a new feature and abandon it altogether. We all have things we want and things we don't want, making extreme suggestions like "I want to get rid of things I don't want" just simply doesn't cut it, especially when that decision affects more than just one person.

 

[GenyaArikado]

But wouldn't it be a problem that Luisa de Guzmán is Spanish and not Portuguese? Would she speak in-game a mix of Spanish and Portuguese. Even though I think Catherine de' Medici is cool, I still would have rather preferred a completely French leader (such as Louis XIV or even Joan of Arc) over someone who isn't ethnically French.

She's the best female option. And that way of thinking it's silly. Specially in her case considering she was literally the first Queen of Portugal (and pushed hard to be so)

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

But wouldn't it be a problem that Luisa de Guzmán is Spanish and not Portuguese? Would she speak in-game a mix of Spanish and Portuguese. Even though I think Catherine de' Medici is cool, I still would have rather preferred a completely French leader (such as Louis XIV or even Joan of Arc) over someone who isn't ethnically French.

I don't believe anyone in Portugal cares that she's Spanish, nor do I think that is a problem in terms of Civ 6 portrayal. Just because a Leader isn't ethnically the same as their people doesn't mean they can't lead them. Kublai Khan in Civ 6 is an example of that.

 

[GenyaArikado]

I just cringe everytime someone pulls the "THEY'RE NOT A REAL X NATIONALITY"

 

[AntSou]

She's the best female option. And that way of thinking it's silly. Specially in her case considering she was literally the first Queen of Portugal (and pushed hard to be so)

She was not the first queen of Portugal though.

I just cringe everytime someone pulls the "THEY'RE NOT A REAL X NATIONALITY"

So by your own admission, you think Victoria ruling India would be appropriate, since nationality or culture doesn't matter, only de facto rule?

Perhaps your own position has problems which you didn't consider thoroughly because you're too focused on auto-dismissing criticism.

I'm fine with Luisa, but saying nationality doesn't matter in an iteration which heavily weighs on the side of portraying different cultures isn't necessarily an uncontentious position.

 

[GenyaArikado]

She was the first queen of modern Portugal, the badass Portugal. Afaik

And not it's not a matter of "ONLY DEJURE RULERS". But disqualifing someone just because they were born abroad/with a diff culture like people love to do here with Cleo/Cath is cringeworthy

 

[raen]

As for portuguese Queens, we also have Leonor Teles and also Philippa of Lancaster.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

She was the first queen of modern Portugal, the badass Portugal. Afaik

It didn't have the Illustrious Generation, though. Modern Portugal, while it may have been a substantive empire, it just doesn't compare with the Age of Discovery.

 

[Zaarin]

But disqualifing someone just because they were born abroad/with a diff culture like people love to do here with Cleo/Cath is cringeworthy

I'd prefer a native Egyptian pharaoh (they only have 2,000 years of pharaohs to choose from including a good handful of female pharaohs and queens-regent), but if they're going to choose a Ptolemy for Egypt...I wish they'd have the guts to portray her like a Ptolemy. Give her a peplos and a himation and an elaborate curly updo--not this fantasy Egyptian stuff that was more inspired by Elizabeth Taylor than anything actually worn in Egypt at any period.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

The season comment in the last update video does make me suspect they probably will do more... If they said that and then didn't it would be quite a let down. Presumably NFP was a financial success?

I personally don't think we'll see more, nor do I want to see more unless it's of considerably higher quality.

I feel like they left it open ended the way they worded it, not confirming or denying anything else after the April update.

I know that it was called a "season pass" in line with the DLC release formats of other games, but the fact that they are still calling it a "season," even as it wraps up, makes me think they aren't done. "Season" still implies something cyclic or repeating. They could have called it the end of the pass instead, but they didn't (although, this would not be the first time we observed imprecise marketing language).

Again, I don't think this necessarily means that if we get a second season, it will be to the same scale as the first. It might just be a few alternate leaders. It might be some city-state packs. It might be a handful of civs and/or game modes. We really have no idea (although I hold that nearly every game mode could very easily be expanded on in a second season).

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

But disqualifing someone just because they were born abroad/with a diff culture like people love to do here with Cleo/Cath is cringeworthy

I don't think it's an automatic disqualification, considering even Victoria and Catherine the Great weren't born in England or Russia, but at the same time it would be nice if they did come with a native ruler of the civilization they are leading. That being said I don't mind Cleo as leader, and she technically was born Egyptian even if her ethnicity was Macedonian/Greek.

Although it would be crazy after all this time waiting for Portugal to have them come with a leader who primarily speaks Spanish, making Pedro the only native born Portuguese speaker.

 

[Zaarin]

Victoria and Catherine the Great weren't born in England or Russia

Victoria was born in Kensington Palace. It was George I, her great-great-grandfather, who was from Hanover. Importing German monarchs was very fashionable in the eighteenth century. All the cool nations were doing it--England, Russia, Sweden...

she technically was born Egyptian even if her ethnicity was Macedonian/Greek.

It depends on how you define "Egyptian." She was certainly born in Egypt, but the Ptolemies had a hard-earned reputation for being more Greek than the Greeks themselves. They treated the native Copts with a great deal of disdain. Cleopatra VII Philopator was the first Ptolemy to even bother learning the Coptic language (and in the midst of her civil war with her brother she had very obvious political reasons for doing so), and likewise her self-presentation as Isis had obvious political motivations. I don't mind her per se, either. She was brilliant and cunning and made the best of a very bad situation that was never going to have a happy ending for Egypt. Still, she's a little disappointing when Hatshepsut, for example, is generally regarded as one of Egypt's best pharaohs regardless of sex--and even Nefertiti could have brought in the big personality (she co-ruled with her husband and may or may not have ruled independently for a while as the pharaoh Neferneferuaten).

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Victoria was born in Kensington Palace. It was George I, her great-great-grandfather, who was from Hanover. Importing German monarchs was very fashionable in the eighteenth century. All the cool nations were doing it--England, Russia, Sweden...

Oops, I mixed her up with her husband, Albert. I knew one was originally born in Germany considering they were cousins.

It depends on how you define "Egyptian." She was certainly born in Egypt, but the Ptolemies had a hard-earned reputation for being more Greek than the Greeks themselves. They treated the native Copts with a great deal of disdain. Cleopatra VII Philopator was the first Ptolemy to even bother learning the Coptic language (and in the midst of her civil war with her brother she had very obvious political reasons for doing so), and likewise her self-presentation as Isis had obvious political motivations. I don't mind her per se, either. She was brilliant and cunning and made the best of a very bad situation that was never going to have a happy ending for Egypt. Still, she's a little disappointing when Hatshepsut, for example, is generally regarded as one of Egypt's best pharaohs regardless of sex--and even Nefertiti could have brought in the big personality (she co-ruled with her husband and may or may not have ruled independently for a while as the pharaoh Neferneferuaten).

Considering she was a Pharaoh of Egypt, I don't see any reason to dismiss her for not being qualified to lead Egypt, despite the fact the Ptolemy dynasty was very Hellenistic.
That being said Hatshepsut or Nefertiti would have worked too for a female leader. I just don't have much of a preference on which one and am usually happy for whichever leader for Egypt they pick.

 

[Zaarin]

Considering she was a Pharaoh of Egypt, I don't see any reason to dismiss her for not being qualified to lead Egypt, despite the fact the Ptolemy dynasty was very Hellenistic.

Alexander was also pharaoh of Egypt. And shah of Persia. And king of Babylon. I don't see any reason to have him lead any of those civs. I don't inherently object to conquest dynasties, but the Ptolemies were so contemptuous of the Egyptians that they do feel a little uncomfortable as the sole representation of Egypt. I'd be more okay with Cleopatra as an interesting personality if Egypt also had another leader--ideally if Egypt first had another leader.

That being said Hatshepsut or Nefertiti would have worked too for a female leader. I just don't have much of a preference on which one and am usually happy for whichever leader for Egypt they pick.

Egypt's heyday was in the Ancient Era; I really feel like they should consistently have an Ancient Era leader. There is no shortage of options to fit any kind of playstyle from cultural to economic to religious to defensive to aggressively expansionist (albeit Egypt was so inward-looking for most of its history that expansionist/militarist would definitely not be my first choice).

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Alexander was also pharaoh of Egypt. And shah of Persia. And king of Babylon. I don't see any reason to have him lead any of those civs. I don't inherently object to conquest dynasties, but the Ptolemies were so contemptuous of the Egyptians that they do feel a little uncomfortable as the sole representation of Egypt. I'd be more okay with Cleopatra as an interesting personality if Egypt also had another leader--ideally if Egypt first had another leader.

Well it's not like he made his seat of power in Egypt, Persia or Babylon (well he died before that did happen but the days of an independent Babylonian Empire were long gone) unlike Cleopatra who did rule from Egypt.
That's one reason why I'm fine with Kublai leading China too considering he did rule China from China. Even so, similar to how the Yuan Dynasty is considered an official dynasty of China, the Ptolemy Dynasty is an official one of Ancient Egypt.

But I agree that it would be nice if they had another leader alongside Cleopatra for variety.

 

[Zaarin]

Well it's not like he made his seat of power in Egypt, Persia or Babylon (well he died before that did happen but the days of an independent Babylonian Empire were long gone) unlike Cleopatra who did rule from Egypt.

He planned to rule from Persia or Babylon. Then he died. But I think the Ptolemies compare poorly to the Seleucids, who got much more involved in and invested in local Perso-Babylonian politics and culture (including intermarrying with local aristocracy to legitimize their power), whereas the Ptolemies flaunted their Hellenistic culture and snubbed the locals. And even so I wouldn't call the Seleucids Persians; Persian history resumes with the Arsacids/Parthians.

Even so, similar to how the Yuan Dynasty is considered an official dynasty of China, the Ptolemy Dynasty is an official one of Ancient Egypt.

According to Hellene historians and an Egyptian priest in the employ of Ptolemy I and/or II, one notes.

 

[Guynemer]

I'd prefer a native Egyptian pharaoh (they only have 2,000 years of pharaohs to choose from including a good handful of female pharaohs and queens-regent), but if they're going to choose a Ptolemy for Egypt...I wish they'd have the guts to portray her like a Ptolemy. Give her a peplos and a himation and an elaborate curly updo--not this fantasy Egyptian stuff that was more inspired by Elizabeth Taylor than anything actually worn in Egypt at any period.

This is fair, but I do have a question.

Did she really wear the traditional Ptolemaic fashions? She was the first Ptolemy to really try to reach out to the people and portray herself as Egyptian; I thought maybe that went beyond learning the language, and extended to her personal fashion (recognizing that her portrayal in Civ6 (and most other media) has nothing to do with either being a Ptolemy or traditional Pharoahnic garb). I have no idea if this is true.

 

[Zaarin]

This is fair, but I do have a question.

Did she really wear the traditional Ptolemaic fashions? She was the first Ptolemy to really try to reach out to the people and portray herself as Egyptian; I thought maybe that went beyond learning the language, and extended to her personal fashion (recognizing that her portrayal in Civ6 (and most other media) has nothing to do with either being a Ptolemy or traditional Pharoahnic garb). I have no idea if this is true.

There's some propaganda art depicting her in an Old Kingdom-style sheath dress as the goddess Isis (i.e., the kind of clothing no Egyptian had worn in a couple millennia at that point but only depicted in ritual art on goddesses), but most descriptions of her have her dressed as a fashionable Hellene. She did, however, wear Egyptian-style eye shadow of powdered lapis lazuli and ochre lipstick--Firaxis had license to actually go much bolder in that respect.

 

[Guynemer]

I love this freaking forum, I always learn something